pseaton Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I ran into this the other day running through a flash point. I selected Need for my companion. Someone got really mad at me for doing that.I explained that I use my companion 90% of the time outside of groups and one way of getting decent gear is through flashpoints. Getting gear through questing is only ok gear. I am not about to buy gear all the time. I have a sorc and my companion is a tank. I use my tank a lot. Am I wrong on selected Need for my companion? I would like to get peoples opinion on this since this game I think is a little different then other games since we have companions. My argument is since I use my companion 90% soloing, I feel as my companion and me are treated as 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starglyte Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I disagree. The problem lies with that if you needed for a companion when it was a up for my character, I would be angry. If it was not a up for me, I would be happy if the individual ask if they could take it for their companion before hitting need, just to make sure someone main character does not get shafted loot for a companion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excedrin Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) Am I wrong on selected Need for my companion? The short answer is yes. You should always defer to someone if they intend to equip it themselves. If no one else can use it, I don't see the problem with that. Edited January 5, 2012 by Excedrin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggomy Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I say roll on whatever you want. You might need money for example the item can bring you. People just feel entitled these days. Used to be Id roll greed but since everyone hits need on everything thats what I do also. I have yet to find anyone who is upset over that they all roll need too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belialle Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) Yes, most consider it rude. Your companion doesn't need to be in super up-to-date gear, and most of the time it is not even contributing to the group. We end up with 5 companions. When everyone rolls "Need" on things for their companions, it defeats the purpose of having loot rolls in the first place because eventually everything that drops could conceivably be considered an upgrade for our companions....even though we don't even use our companions in group content. There are plenty of ways to get gear via solo play. Quest greens are plenty good for companions, and we can spend commendations....We can even go back to solo FPs for any moddable loot that we might want to pick up for our companions. I find it disrespectful when someone rolls "Need" on something for their companion without asking if an actual player needs it first. The actual player is the one who helped you kill the boss that dropped the loot in the first place. Actual humans should have priority over any NPC. I have actually used my companion to tank things while I healed, and I still wouldn't roll on things for my companion if another player in the group needed the upgrade. I won't cause drama over it. I'll just leave the group. You can have your companion tank/heal the instance since you apparently feel that it contributes more to the group than I do. There's no point in me sticking around to help someone clear content if they are just going to try and screw us over on the loot rolls. Edited January 5, 2012 by belialle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excedrin Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) I say roll on whatever you want. You might need money for example the item can bring you. People just feel entitled these days. Used to be Id roll greed but since everyone hits need on everything thats what I do also. I have yet to find anyone who is upset over that they all roll need too. So much irony here. Is it intentional? Is this a really clever post? Edited January 5, 2012 by Excedrin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSUNightfall Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) In my opinion, yes it is wrong. I can state as fact that this is considered bad behavior by the majority of players, which is a separate issue as to whether it's wrong. I will put this as simply as concisely as I can. Raiding and grouping contains an element of give-and-take. You put in your skills and time, and you get out a reward. The loot you get from a flashpoint is your reward for contributing your abilities and skills. Your companion did not help to complete the flashpoint, therefore your companion should not share in the spoils of the flashpoint over another player who did help complete it, and by doing so helped everyone get the rewards of the flashpoint, whatever those might be. Secondly, people generally run instances multiple times to get gear. If everyone only needs on what they actually use, and lets the rest go, mathematically everyone will get all the gear they need and be out of the instance in the quickest amount of time. I've actually written a little program to test this. Once you start adding in people needing on things they don't need, assuming everyone keeps doing the instance to get x amount of gear, the total amount of runs everyone needs begins to rise sharply. Only needing on things you need is part of a "social contract" that, when followed, results in speedy gear gain for everyone, even if on a particular run you may get nothing. This is what people don't understand who argue that "you can benefit from the money" or similar. By not adhering to this simple social propriety, you hurt not only everyone else but yourself as well. It has nothing to do with entitlement. The first time you start having to do raids over and over to get an item so that you can do even higher level raids, you realize its in everyone's best interest to cooperate so you have to repeat the same content as few times as possible. Sometimes this means you let other people have items even though you could need on them, and hopefully in the future the will reciprocate. Keep in mind, companions do fine with quested or crafted or pvp or commendation gear, even when it's not the best. When you need on something you yourself don't use for flashpoints, you may have just consigned the trooper across from you to running the instance another 5 times to get that hat he wanted. Is your computer-controlled companion really more important than him? In any case it's always best to ask your group if you're not sure what's okay, and if you run a group to set the rules ahead of time. In WoW my rules were simple: I master-loot everything and you can't roll need on things you can't use. Works beautifully. So far in TOR I have said the same thing and never had a problem with any player: "Need on items you yourself can use. Need for a companion without asking and you're kicked." but in nicer words. Edited January 5, 2012 by OSUNightfall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battyone Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 The short answer is yes. You should always defer to someone if they intend to equip it themselves. If no one else can use it, I don't see the problem with that. To elaborate, ask the group don't just click need. If the group is okay with it roll need, if they are not prepare to never group with those people, or probably their guild mates ever again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loudent Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 My argument is since I use my companion 90% soloing, I feel as my companion and me are treated as 1. Upgrades specifically for your companion come up extremely often during questing (I'm talking 2 entire sets by the time y ou finish a planet. In addtion there is plenty of gear on the commendation merchants that can be used to upgrade equipment and you'll have plenty of extra commendations. Personally if someone needs on an item for their companion they go on my ignore list so I don't group with them again. Unless they either wait to make sure no one needs or ask if it's ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinkfreudHC Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 They really should just add a "Need for Companion" button. But another option is to just solo a low level Heroic-4 or Flashpoint and grab orange gear from there, and slot it for level appropriate stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparckus Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Am I wrong on selected Need for my companion? Yes, height of rudeness and ignorance. Ask the group first if no one else is rolling need for their own character. If they are, don't even ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allyhoo Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 To elaborate, ask the group don't just click need. If the group is okay with it roll need, if they are not prepare to never group with those people, or probably their guild mates ever again. This. Personally, I feel it is wrong to roll need for your companion. As time goes on you will have 5 (6 with droid) companions and could conceivably roll need on just about every item if you were using them to equip your companion. Gear from flashpoints should go to players (and companions if no player needs it) because they will need this better gear to run future flashpoints with other players. It's always easier just to ask. I've run flashpoints with players before where no one "needed" strength and endurance gear, so I asked if I could roll on it for Khem Val. They didn't have a problem with it and things worked out fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) A fix would be the ability to trade BOPs bewteen players which were need rolled on that could have benefitted another party member more. Don't think the system supports player-before-companion prioritization either. As a result, proper etiquette might entail the party communicating roll priorities before the first trash pull ever happens. Maybe even have players agree to declare before each roll whether it's for them or their companion. If there is a player declaring it's for their player character then companion need rolls would not be allowed. A big time sink, but communication is really about the only fair way to do it. Edited January 5, 2012 by GalacticKegger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskaan Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Your group killed a boss in order for the loot to drop. Was your companion part of the group? Did your companion help you kill that specific boss? If yes, then yes, you should get to roll on that loot. If no, then no, your companion hasnt earned that loot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Udolpho Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 They really should just add a "Need for Companion" button. But another option is to just solo a low level Heroic-4 or Flashpoint and grab orange gear from there, and slot it for level appropriate stats. There is a "Need for Companion" button. It's called "Greed." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggomy Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 So much irony here. Is it intentional? Is this a really clever post? No I am saying the only truely fair way it to just let everyone roll on what they wish. Its entitled people who insist they are the only ones who can use said item so they should be the only one to get it. THAT is entitlement saying you deserve it more than other people. FAIR ways to do things is just roll need on whatever you want. If you dont want it pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allyhoo Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 They really should just add a "Need for Companion" button. But another option is to just solo a low level Heroic-4 or Flashpoint and grab orange gear from there, and slot it for level appropriate stats. I love this idea...they have a roll for disassembling the item, so why not one for a companion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 They really should just add a "Need for Companion" button. But another option is to just solo a low level Heroic-4 or Flashpoint and grab orange gear from there, and slot it for level appropriate stats.This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muskaan Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I love this idea...they have a roll for disassembling the item, so why not one for a companion. Having a button doesn't mean people will use the button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
utio Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 If everyone chose need and you won the loot what does it matter wether it's for you or your companion? Wouldn't bother me in the slightest if I were grouped with you and you won the loot, as everyone has an equal chance. Not my business what you use it for, you got it fair and square. And I'd bet that alot of people saying they wouldn't do it do just that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSUNightfall Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) I feel I should mention, before I started doing heroics in WoW I was totally on board the "I'll need for everything because even gold helps me" bandwagon. The system of always giving, say, a sword to the warrior irked me. I helped complete the instance, so I felt I should get a reward. The entire thing smacked of entitlement, and I understand that position. It took all of one heroic instance to realize why I was wrong. While it seems like entitlement from the outside, I quickly came to realize that like most social contracts, the practice of only needing on things you could use evolved because it was the most advantageous practice for everyone involved. It's like the prisoner dilemma in game theory. If everyone cooperates and abides by the system, everyone benefits more than they would if they didn't follow it. It's similar to the evolution of "Prize Law" in ancient naval history. Looking at it from the outside, it seems horribly corrupt and unfair. But Privateers, captains, and nations all followed it, because it was beneficial to investors, insurers, nations, captains, privateers, and even pirates. It was even beneficial to captains whose ships were taken *by* privateers and pirates. Edited January 5, 2012 by OSUNightfall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoranth Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I ran into this the other day running through a flash point. I selected Need for my companion. Someone got really mad at me for doing that. I explained that I use my companion 90% of the time outside of groups and one way of getting decent gear is through flashpoints. Getting gear through questing is only ok gear. I am not about to buy gear all the time. I have a sorc and my companion is a tank. I use my tank a lot. Am I wrong on selected Need for my companion? I would like to get peoples opinion on this since this game I think is a little different then other games since we have companions. My argument is since I use my companion 90% soloing, I feel as my companion and me are treated as 1. Did you tell the group you would be needing for your companion beforehand? You do realize that we get 5 companions, you can need and everything and claim it is for a companion, where do you draw the line? It is up to each player to make that decision themselves, i suggest forming your own groups, or at least telling the group beforehand what types of gear you plan to need on, if you will need for more then your own set of gear. Players are allowed to need on whatever they want in this game, but other players are allowed to get mad and refuse to group with you if they don't like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSUNightfall Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 No I am saying the only truely fair way it to just let everyone roll on what they wish. Its entitled people who insist they are the only ones who can use said item so they should be the only one to get it. THAT is entitlement saying you deserve it more than other people. FAIR ways to do things is just roll need on whatever you want. If you dont want it pass. I don't think the word "entitlement" means what you think it means. Entitlement is thinking you deserve a shot at everything. Needing only on items you actually use is an excellent example of teamwork and fair play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggomy Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I don't think the word "entitlement" means what you think it means. Entitlement is thinking you deserve a shot at everything. Needing only on items you actually use is an excellent example of teamwork and fair play. No entitlement means ONLY you are allowed a shot because you "need" it more than everyone else. Letting everyone have a chance is the opposite of entitlement. It says that I am not the only person in this group and everyone should have equal chance for loot. Its none of my business what they do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSUNightfall Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 No entitlement means ONLY you are allowed a shot because you "need" it more than everyone else. Letting everyone have a chance is the opposite of entitlement. It says that I am not the only person in this group and everyone should have equal chance for loot. Its none of my business what they do with it. Perhaps I should be clear. You're speaking of an "undeserved sense of entitlement." But you're only hurting yourself and everyone else in the group by holding this view. My previous posts explain why. Let me guess: in the prisoner dilemma, you rat the other guy out, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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