Why are so many people saying this game is bad?

[Fiachsidhe]

As much fun as I find this game, Bioware arrogantly believed their own ideas, and ideals, were more important than giving gamers what they actually wanted. I told them, as did many others, the key to fighting WoW, is to offer what WoW doesn't. They think dialogue trees are enough.

 

As such, everything from species choice, to space combat, was done as cheaply and as easily as possible, and tons of corners were cut despite the budget and time given to them.

 

Problems that are a year old, from beta, still exist. Beta testers' warnings were ignored. The demands for appearance tabs refused, due to their arrogant belief that their weak mod system was good enough, and sure enough Blizzard takes advantage of Bioware's arrogance and stubbornness, and did what Bioware joyfully refused to do, and included transmog.

 

Tons of content was removed to be inserted into expansion and patches (armor sets, white crystals, etc.)

 

I've been playing the new play to 20 free thing Rift has, it's amazing just how much more flexible the UI is (being able to select from a ton of bottom and side action bars). Hell I can run the high res graphics in that game, better than I can on SWTOR. Again, because Bioware squandered money using the Hero Engine, which has never been more than a big piece of under-performing crap for lazy developers.

 

This game has the potential to be great, but with Bioware and EA running things, who knows.

 

I still find the game enjoyable, it's just that I can't believe how Bioware let their ego's override sensibilities.

[Vecke]

Yeah, it actually did cost that much. Voiceover isn't cheap.

 

I'm not denying the cost of the game (because I don't know one way or the other). I am, however, wondering if we aren't putting too much emphasis on the cost of voiceovers.

 

ME1, ME2, KOTOR, KOTOR2, Fallout 3, Oblivion, Skyrim, and many more games have every bit as many (if not significantly more) voice-overs, and many of them with very famous people doing the work, from Liam Neeson to Patrick Stewart.

 

Yet none of those games boast a cost anywhere near that much.

 

So I doubt the $200 million mark, but even if it was that much, I don't see how voice-overs were what put it there.

[Cepheid]

I'm not denying the cost of the game (because I don't know one way or the other). I am, however, wondering if we aren't putting too much emphasis on the cost of voiceovers.

 

ME1, ME2, KOTOR, KOTOR2, Fallout 3, Oblivion, Skyrim, and many more games have every bit as many (if not significantly more) voice-overs, and many of them with very famous people doing the work, from Liam Neeson to Patrick Stewart.

 

Yet none of those games boast a cost anywhere near that much.

 

So I doubt the $200 million mark, but even if it was that much, I don't see how voice-overs were what put it there.

 

Well I'd certainly hate to think that Bioware "hit their mark" and achieved what they wanted. I mean whatever the case may be the game does not have the feature of a game with a budget that size. Feels like I bought a a car with a Ferrari price tage but with no AC.

 

Engine was premade they just augmented to cut cost. I mean it's hard for me to imagine 200m in any form or fashion as that amount of money just doesn't fit into my imagination all that well but I do know games that cost A LOT less did a better job with basic features and providing an optimized engine.

 

**I would imagine they factored in cost for the IP

Edited March 5, 2012 by Cepheid

[BlackZoback]

Well I'd certainly hate to think that Bioware "hit there mark" and achieved what they wanted. I mean whatever the case may be the game does not have the feature of a game with a budget that size. Feels like I bought a a car with a Ferrari price tage but with no AC.

 

Engine was premade they just augmented to cut cost.

 

MMo's are not cars.

[antiviolence]

as for an earlier reply of the 8 vs 12 WZ exploit thats also a player driven problem, a) the main cause of that was apperently fixed two patches ago and if you see it your meant to screenshot it and report it, along with server and time so the powers that be can continue to rectify the issue on their end.

 

It is only an exploit if the game allows it to be. The problem though fixed 1-2 patches ago, had already been a problem since launch, no wait, since beta. Reports have been made and screenshots provided but it took them almost 2 months to fix it. Even during the period they were fixing this, they did not even acknowledge the problem which to me is horrendous.

 

If they had in the first place said "hey guys we know theres an exploit going around, please give us some time to fix this." then that would've appeased the players, and probably saved them some subs, knowing that the devs are hard at work trying to fix a game breaking issue.

 

 

Actually, the larger question is why those that claim to hate the game are still here, and still playing. That's also the most puzzling.

 

No. It's puzzling why people who claim the game is so amazing and yet still find the time to come to the forums to whine about haters when they could be enjoying the game they love so much. See what I did there?

 

FYI, most of these people don't HATE the game, they actually provide valuable insight and feedback that could help improve the game but it's people like you who just go around and quote everything they say as ******** which btw isn't helping but hurting the game.

[kaboro]

As much fun as I find this game, Bioware arrogantly believed their own ideas, and ideals, were more important than giving gamers what they actually wanted. I told them, as did many others, the key to fighting WoW, is to offer what WoW doesn't. They think dialogue trees are enough.

 

As such, everything from species choice, to space combat, was done as cheaply and as easily as possible, and tons of corners were cut despite the budget and time given to them.

 

Problems that are a year old, from beta, still exist. Beta testers' warnings were ignored. The demands for appearance tabs refused, due to their arrogant belief that their weak mod system was good enough, and sure enough Blizzard takes advantage of Bioware's arrogance and stubbornness, and did what Bioware joyfully refused to do, and included transmog.

 

Tons of content was removed to be inserted into expansion and patches (armor sets, white crystals, etc.)

 

I've been playing the new play to 20 free thing Rift has, it's amazing just how much more flexible the UI is (being able to select from a ton of bottom and side action bars). Hell I can run the high res graphics in that game, better than I can on SWTOR. Again, because Bioware squandered money using the Hero Engine, which has never been more than a big piece of under-performing crap for lazy developers.

 

This game has the potential to be great, but with Bioware and EA running things, who knows.

 

I still find the game enjoyable, it's just that I can't believe how Bioware let their ego's override sensibilities.

 

Awesome post. You hit the nail on the head. Dont get your hopes up for Rift though, its actually a very basic and poor game.

[Valdshade]

Did bioware let there ego get the best of them or did the just build a MMO to say they did spend and make alot of money then o right back to what they do best and work on a frist person shooter 'Masseffect 3" and let this dog die as it has already made the investors money back Hummmmm ither way .

 

 

This game could have been so much more then it is if the devs hadent gotten lasy

and they listend to there customers .

 

In stead they have chosen to do nothing about the huge issues with pvp hackers third party prgrams and expolites the lack content other then the bothersome voice over crap that no true gamer listens to more then once if that What ever heres hoping Guildwars2 is better .

[Gungan]

well, i have a simple solution for you, PLAY ANOTHER CLASS!!! Each class has its own story and gameplay or change to darkside / lightside.

 

No, it doesn't. It's 5 unique quests per planet after Coruscant/Dromund Kaas, and 95% the same side quests you just did on your last character.

[Denskoo]

I'm not denying the cost of the game (because I don't know one way or the other). I am, however, wondering if we aren't putting too much emphasis on the cost of voiceovers.

 

ME1, ME2, KOTOR, KOTOR2, Fallout 3, Oblivion, Skyrim, and many more games have every bit as many (if not significantly more) voice-overs, and many of them with very famous people doing the work, from Liam Neeson to Patrick Stewart.

 

Yet none of those games boast a cost anywhere near that much.

 

So I doubt the $200 million mark, but even if it was that much, I don't see how voice-overs were what put it there.

 

 

I keep seeing numbers anywhere from $60 million to $100 million for Skyrim but I don't know where you found the official development cost numbers for all of those. I haven't been able to find any official sources yet.

 

I would not be surprised if swtor has a whole lot more voice acting than any of those when you factor in the length of gameplay in swtor along with the multiple classes and two factions. And looking at the list of actors, SWTOR has like 5 times the number of voice actors than what Skyrim had. SWTOR literally has over 250 voice actors if not closer to 300. Skyrim had around 50-70 voice actors.

 

 

Even with how many actors they used, I'm disappointed at how voices are purely class based and we didn't have any options for our character's voice. I understand why but still..

 

And I do think the game was rushed to release, leaving many things in unfinished or unpolished states. However, for me personally I have two characters I've leveled to 50 on without any of the bugs interfering with the enjoyment of the game. For me the issues are more about the design (of lack of) for many aspects of the game more so than bugs. Like why are they so few decent character creation options and why does almost all of the equipment look the same (for a given armor type).

Edited March 5, 2012 by Denskoo

[krinaman]

As much fun as I find this game, Bioware arrogantly believed their own ideas, and ideals, were more important than giving gamers what they actually wanted.

 

Which gamers?

 

Because there is a whole lot of gamers out there and they all want something different.

[Vecke]

I keep seeing numbers anywhere from $60 million to $100 million for Skyrim but I don't know where you found the official development cost numbers for all of those. I haven't been able to find any official sources yet.

 

I would not be surprised if swtor has a whole lot more voice acting than any of those when you factor in the length of gameplay in swtor along with the multiple classes and two factions. And looking at the list of actors, SWTOR has like 5 times the number of voice actors than what Skyrim had. SWTOR literally has over 250 voice actors if not closer to 300. Skyrim had around 50-70 voice actors.

 

 

Even with how many actors they used, I'm disappointed at how voices are purely class based and we didn't have any options for our character's voice. I understand why but still..

 

And I do think the game was rushed to release, leaving many things in unfinished or unpolished states. However, for me personally I have two characters I've leveled to 50 on without any of the bugs interfering with the enjoyment of the game. For me the issues are more about the design (of lack of) for many aspects of the game more so than bugs. Like why are they so few decent character creation options and why does almost all of the equipment look the same (for a given armor type).

 

You could be absolutely right about the amount of voice acting. I don't have any statistics to back up what I was saying. I'm basing the amount of acting on my play throughs of each of those games, so maybe it just seemed like more to me. The Mass Effect games, for example, had people talking everywhere, all the time. Just seemed like significantly more. I admit that could be my perception though.

 

As for the costs of those games, I was basing that on articles on IGN and Yahoo that said if BW did spend $200 mil it means it's by far the most expensive video game ever made (which by default says those others were significantly less).

 

Edit: I was definitely wrong in my perceptions. I just read that TOR had roughly 10 times the amount of voice work that KOTOR had. I didn't find anything about ME, but that's enough to suggest it's significantly more than any single player venture.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Vecke

[Gungan]

Which gamers?

 

Because there is a whole lot of gamers out there and they all want something different.

 

The ones that like games with gameplay, not just cinematics with dialog prompts.

[Gungan]

You could be absolutely right about the amount of voice acting. I don't have any statistics to back up what I was saying. I'm basing the amount of acting on my play throughs of each of those games, so maybe it just seemed like more to me. The Mass Effect games, for example, had people talking everywhere, all the time. Just seemed like significantly more. I admit that could be my perception though.

 

As for the costs of those games, I was basing that on articles on IGN and Yahoo that said if BW did spend $200 mil it means it's by far the most expensive video game ever made (which by default says those others were significantly less).

 

Edit: I was definitely wrong in my perceptions. I just read that TOR had roughly 10 times the amount of voice work that KOTOR had. I didn't find anything about ME, but that's enough to suggest it's significantly more than any single player venture.

 

SWTOR is in the Guiness Book for most voice work in any entertainment product ever made.

[Tuscad]

I am curious to know why all the hate for this game in this forum? I been playing for about a week now, and this is the most fun I have had with an mmo since I quit playing WoW.

 

Because it is bad.

[Kunra]

Because I have played it for 3 months?

 

Would rather play SWG NGE...

[Sith-Viscera]

Those who think the game sucks cause every thing should be perfect barley past 3 months after release, should stop into your local Hospital or Dr office and ask for an enema, that will clean them off foolish things like the game is bad and then some. lol

[btmarine]

Things that are annoying -- all the walking in airlocks, no bikes there?? Commendations at 1k and 1k b4 50...idk. Mirror classes with animation speeds..airlocks....pointless elevators...economy..crafting vs biochem....weird useless quest rewards...blue mods from commendations...scoundrel healing...lvl 50 pvp is a joke and terribly frustrating being outnumbered all the time...rng in bags is rage inducing...re is so frustrating and pointless. Are any of these things fun and worth paying for? I dont think so. I played a lot and like some things about the game but overall it is not a good game. Its frustrating, not difficult, but annoying....its an annoying game.

[Tuscad]

Those who think the game sucks cause every thing should be perfect barley past 3 months after release, should stop into your local Hospital or Dr office and ask for an enema, that will clean them off foolish things like the game is bad and then some. lol

 

Wait, are you saying that the people that enjoy the game are hooked on drugs? That might explain the rabid defense of the game.

[thestackshow]

Because they hit 50. Leveling to 50 was the best part of the game. End game sucks. Sorry but its true.

[Darthaes]

I am curious to know why all the hate for this game in this forum? I been playing for about a week now, and this is the most fun I have had with an mmo since I quit playing WoW.

 

IF you like this game i suggest staying away from the forums because they will make you not want to play anymore.

 

just saying.

[lethal_ghost]

Because they hit 50. Leveling to 50 was the best part of the game. End game sucks. Sorry but its true.

 

This. Leveling is great but that's it. Might as well have been a single player game

Edited March 5, 2012 by lethal_ghost

[Torquist]

I think Bioware misjudged the enjoyment of redoing 1-50 in this game. I'm sure their design philosophy was re-roll to enjoy the multiple story arcs instead of end game.

 

The problem I am having is I'm halfway through my 2nd character and having trouble enjoying the repetition. Yes the dialogue has changed for character story, but the "experience" is a repeat.

 

A 3rd character is out of the question, so that leaves me with waiting for something else to take my fancy. Whether that be a new MMO or a just a new game in general.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Torquist

[NogFizzbin]

I like the game well enough and I have gotten my moneys worth out of it for sure. However there are a few things I don't like.

 

1) There are too many jedi and sith. When I play one, I don't feel unique. When I don't, I don't fear them.

2) It doesn't really matter what you answer in the quests except for ds/ls points or not doing the quest.

3) No exploration.

[myriadical]

why do you think most of those not leaving are staying? do you think something needs 100% of the people to like it for it to be good? can you not think of anything you like that most people don't know/care about?

 

did you play wow at release? do you remember the forum qq? do you remember warriors rolling gnomes and crashing servers to make a statement? i was there when downtime was measured in days not hours at WoWs release. if you think there's a lot of qq here you haven't seen anything. WoW seemed to do okay though...

 

HAHAH OMG I remember that!! I was pissed off because it was my server and i couldn't play. Your post has made me stop lurking and login to post.

 

It's been quite entertaining reading in this thread, but I wasn't originally going to post anything until I saw this. Since I'm posting I may as well throw in my 2 cents.

 

My first MMO was WoW and I played that at launch. The thing that amuses me about these threads and I guess why I read them is because there are SO many similarities to the threads back in WoW launch and the ones I'm seeing here. From the "OMG devs suck cos they don't respond to me" to the "They hate my class because my class has been nerfed\needs to be buffed" to the "every single bug is breaking my immersion FIX THEM NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW!!". I know because I was one of them adding his voice (text?) to the chorus in the general forums of WoW. Back then I was a uni kid with way too much time, a hardcore raider if you will...now I'm 7 years older and a lot more laid back. I've fallen into the class of gamer that people like to refer to as 'casual'. The only difference with the forum posts is the "<insert mmo name> has this, TOR doesn't and that's why it sucks" type of post. Although, maybe WoW had those types of posts as well, I'm getting fuzzy in my old age.

 

Anyway, I see similar posts from people like me who's been playing MMO's for a long time. The majority of posts from gamers like me seem to be of the "give it time\be patient" type. These are the experienced gamers who've been on this merry-go-round before. Even at 2-3 months old, TOR is still a baby and will have its fair share of issues. In time they'll get fixed and things will improve. That's the way it goes and that's the it will always go.

 

The posts that fascinate me are the ones who claim to have played UO, EQ, EQ2, vanilla WoW (before BC) and whatever else you have there and then go onto a little rant\rage about why TOR sucks. If these guys\gals really did play all those games, they have to at least be in their late 20's\early 30's. To which I have to ask, don't you 'older' gamers have better things to do than rant about a game on a game forum? I can expect the rants\whining\rage from little 16-20 year olds who don't know better, but if you're a grizzled MMO vet, surely you know that these things just take time and patience is the order of the day, right? ....right?

[Allegos]

The lack of exploration is a big one for me. That a couple of planets are designed to look like they're literally made of hallways took the Halloween mask off of the simplistic map design for me.

 

The space combat is actually pretty entertaining to me; it's a fantastic update of Starfox. Its ability to remain entertaining is going to depend on Bioware being able to release new maps at an unrealistic rate, though.

 

I was extremely surprised at how small the ship interiors turned out to be. They're hyped as being much more luxurious on the official game site's codex.

 

The laggy user interface and terrible frame rate issues when the screen starts to get crowded don't need to be explained to anyone who has leveled a toon past the first planet and gone to Fleet. No, I don't need an ultra-low graphic setting added, thanks. My hardware is fine. The game engine is not.

 

Those are the big issues, to me. Those are what I need to see fixed before I'll renew my subscription, but I do intend to resubscribe when they're fixed.

 

Less crucial, but still annoying, are the reduced number of options when creating a non-human character - who knew that only humans could grow beards? - and the absolutely bizarre decision on Bioware's part to make every class' set of companions a boys' club with just the one (two, for Sith Warriors) token female per ship. The unspoken decree that only one out of five space adventurers can be girls seems at least as backward as the lack of same gender romances, if not more so. I'm surprised by the lack of blowback on that from players.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Allegos