Why are so many people saying this game is bad?

[JediElf]

Besides the story, may I ask what about this game you "love" so much?

 

Oh boy...ok here we go.

 

I love the graphics, the combat, crafting, voice acting, pacing, difficulty levels, refrences, and shouts to other Bioware games, the races we can choose from (with hopefully more to come), gear designs, the dialogue options, the fast travel speeders, my ships, playing with my friends, playing solo if i choose, Star Wars, Knights of the Old Republic time frame....*deep breath* I could go on but you get the point right?

 

You are free, as we all are, to dislike this game. What I disagree with is the bile and venom spit at folks who do like this game.

 

I've been gameing for a long time, but I've never let that sour me to a new experience, or a new game.

 

I've been gaming, because that's what I like to do, and I like this game.

 

Simple as that.

Edited March 4, 2012 by JediElf

[LogicalPremise]

On a side note, I'd like to give some advice to some of the folks posting here. This advice comes purely from my anecdotal experience, so feel free to ignore it if you've had different results.

 

Here's a list of words and phrases that - in my experience - never help to move a debate forward:

 

"Logical Fallacy."

 

"Straw Man."

 

"Ad hominem."

 

"Red Herring."

 

"Fact!" (it gets even worse when put in quotation marks or followed by the word "your")

 

"lol" (especially when preceding or following a statement that disagrees with another statement, i.e. "lol that's ridiculous.")

 

There are more, but I'll stop there. Your experiences may be different, but I've never seen those phrases (whether appropriately used or not) do anything but derail and inflame a debate.

 

Just some friendly advice from someone that spends too much time lurking forums.

 

I'm sorry, but the problem with your advice is that allowing strawman arguments and ad hominem attacks doesn't do anything to "advance" a debate either. Either you call these people on their BS or the discussion becomes worthless. Once you've thrown out the rules of "what can and cannot be construed as a valid point" you end up with "I like SWTOR because my house is made of bricks" as valid.

[Vecke]

I'm sorry, but the problem with your advice is that allowing strawman arguments and ad hominem attacks doesn't do anything to "advance" a debate either. Either you call these people on their BS or the discussion becomes worthless. Once you've thrown out the rules of "what can and cannot be construed as a valid point" you end up with "I like SWTOR because my house is made of bricks" as valid.

 

I'm not saying don't call them out on it. I'm saying I've never - not once - seen a positive outcome from using those words, because most people incorrectly define those terms anyway. Saying, "That's a straw man" will invariably result in a debate over the definition of a straw man. Instead, just point out that nobody actually made the point they're arguing against.

 

Again, this is just what I've seen. I've never seen the words "Straw Man" used that didn't derail. I have, however, seen a point dropped because someone said, "please show me where I said what you're claiming."

[Vlaxitov]

lawl. Those things should be mandatory but there are enough basic features not included

 

Lawl, if the game was good enough on it's own merits, the hustle and bustle of busy servers would be soo thick that there wouldn't be people like you saying a x-realm dungeon lobby and server transfers should be mandatory.

 

Nice try..

[Dreossk]

Why?

 

- complete incompetence in communication

- No day/night cycle

- No swimming

- No housing

- No Pazaak, Sabacc, Dejarik, races, casino, etc...

- Dumbed down character creation

- No post-creation character customization

- No appearance tab/outfit system

- No high res textures

- No environmental interaction (chairs, walls, doors, etc...)

- Simple combat with static enemies

- Unconvincing and stiff animations

- Empty dead worlds with not enough NPCs moving around

- No collision detection

- No stats on resources

- No crafting customization

- Restriction in choice of starship

- No ship decoration

- Dumbed down space combat

- No multiplayer space combat

- Removal of many races

- No faction change/neutrality

- Restriction and instanced planets by faction

- Less planets than announced

- Planets rated by levels with no reason to go back

- No GM events

- Removal of choice to kill companion

- Removal of possibility to talk to other faction at all times

- No RP tools

- Nothing to do post-story

- Endgame consisting on waiting in fleet

 

more complete description in my sig

 

Beside the story, which is represented in laughable and incredibly poorly made cinematics and dialogues, this game has nothing to offer and nothing to justify 15$ a month.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Dreossk

[Jesira]

What bugs rofl, seriously? I have run into like...2...and I've got 2 50's.

[Kenmori]

Made a thread pretty much about the same. Ive had a couple bugs but meh its fun when Soa goes back tot eh top when hes almost dead, gives ya time for a beer with your buds!

 

Just a few bugs, but nothing that would make me stop playing. Enjoying it, also got many alts, raiding, pvping etc etc

[Redwood_Original]

Clearly Like any game that has just launched there are a great many things that need to be adjusted, fixed, added or removed to appease the masses. that being said I have played the game since beta and I love the "Story" my biggest requests for fixes or changes is, a monthly adventure update that is available to all levels and doesnt require a raid to do it. I also cannot wait for the UI changes and the economic and pvp changes however, I hate that I have to pvp to get end game gear, because pve'ing to get endgame gear is so much more dificult to either organize, complete or attempt. I do understand that there are people who through the organization and direction of their guilds achieve more in diferent areas then others. but clearly without question its easier to gear up through pvp over pve.

 

I do have high hopes for the game as it progresses and changes to the like and dislikes of the community the genre of star wars has been something ive grown up with since I was a kid nearly 40 years ago. It is definitly something that I would like to continue to play for a long time. that being said I think that bioware should be more transparant about the direction of their development of the game and maybe import an in game " player guide" mtype position to interact with players and hand out some of those rare gm events and odd stuff in the meantime between updates. just a thought.

 

I will continue to play the game with the hopes that as it grows some of the things I would love to see in the game get implemented and some of the things many people on here have suggested would be awesome additions to the fun of the game. just have to keep in mind it will take time it wont be instantaneous.

 

Redwood

 

Corellian Run

[Lord_Ravenhurst]

Why?

 

- complete incompetence in communication

- No day/night cycle

- No swimming

- No housing

- No Pazaak, Sabacc, Dejarik, races, casino, etc...

- Dumbed down character creation

- No post-creation character customization

- No appearance tab/outfit system

- No high res textures

- No environmental interaction (chairs, walls, doors, etc...)

- Simple combat with static enemies

- Unconvincing and stiff animations

- Empty dead worlds with not enough NPCs moving around

- No collision detection

- No stats on resources

- No crafting customization

- Restriction in choice of starship

- No ship decoration

- Dumbed down space combat

- No multiplayer space combat

- Removal of many races

- No faction change/neutrality

- Restriction and instanced planets by faction

- Less planets than announced

- Planets rated by levels with no reason to go back

- No GM events

- Removal of choice to kill companion

- Removal of possibility to talk to other faction at all times

- No RP tools

- Nothing to do post-story

- Endgame consisting on waiting in fleet

 

more complete description in my sig

 

Beside the story, which is represented in laughable and incredibly poorly made cinematics and dialogues, this game has nothing to offer and nothing to justify 15$ a month.

 

 

 

You really summed it up pretty good, these are more or less exactly the same drawbacks I see too. If this would all be added, SWTOR would not just be good, it would be freakin´amazing. On the other hand, I´d play it too much which would mean I´d get fat and forget to shower.

 

Only points I´d add:

 

- free roaming on planets and getting rid of exhaustion zones, which are nothing more than invisible lines

- much improved enemy AI

- atmospheric flight and free choice of landing spots

- space trading and exploration (similiar to "EVE")

I seriously hope BW takes this as a To-Do list for Version 2.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Lord_Ravenhurst

[Vlaxitov]

I've had more fun with Anno 2070 in the last three days than I had with three months of SWTOR.

 

You and anyone else should tell me your anno 2070 name.

 

Mine is the same as my forum name here Vlaxitov.

 

Anno 2070 is probably the best overall game I've seen come out in 3-4 years imo.

[Gungan]

I am curious to know why all the hate for this game in this forum? I been playing for about a week now, and this is the most fun I have had with an mmo since I quit playing WoW.

 

On a scale of:

 

Awful Game - Poor Game - Average Game - Good Game - Great Game

 

SWTOR is Average.

 

I dunno why you're having fun in this MMO... since it's a poor attempt at the multiplayer genre. Everything before 50 is fun and for the most part entertaining as long as you only have 1 character per faction and don't do any 50 content.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Gungan

[tharengore]

On a scale of:

 

Awful Game - Poor Game - Average Game - Good Game - Great Game

 

SWTOR is Average.

 

I dunno why you're having fun in this MMO... since it's a poor attempt at the multiplayer genre. Everything before 50 is fun and for the most part entertaining as long as you only have 1 character per faction and don't do any 50 content.

 

Funny I remember when WOW first came out, and everyone was complaining about this bug, and that bug. The unbalance of classes, poor story or lack their of, to much grinding, not enough quests, no real endgame, etc...

 

Basically every New MMO will come out with some bugs and have room for lot of things to be added on. Take this month they will be adding in a lot of new content, and fixes. Plus think this month or next couple they will be adding in new races, companion options, end game, etc.

 

So yea have some patience kids. The games has a ton of room for a lot of great material to be added on.

[Abanoth]

1) It's too much like WoW

 

2) It's not enough like WoW

 

3) DAOC is the best game of all time

 

4) TORtanic is now a meme

 

5) Bugs

[Dan_McMan]

I'm having a great time with the game. It can be hard not to get a little ruffled by all the detractors. However, I think dollars speak louder than forum posts in this situation. So, I'll just keep my subscription.

 

Oh, also this --->

What bugs rofl, seriously? I have run into like...2...and I've got 2 50's.

 

Different for everyone I suppose.

Edited March 4, 2012 by Dan_McMan

[iceperson]

I played from Vanilla to WotLK. Please find some other way to discredit my observation outside of flinging your lack of knowledge about my personal gaming history into the ring. Perhaps had you spent any time gathering info before making a comment like this then you wouldn't continue to get lambasted for poorly constructed arguments in the forums.

 

Perhaps reading and responding to the actual observation rather than attempting an ad hominem comment about my gaming history (BBS MUDS and up there super guy) would be more appropriate.

 

it's always funny seeing someone who's not half as smart as they think they are use terms they don't understand. thanks for the chuckle.

[Cepheid]

I love the argument that the industry should not have been expected to grow in the last 8 years and ergo all expectations for standard MMO features are therefore null and void. The idea that people should settle for less than average because WoW did it is sadly the biggest comparison I see to WoW these days.

 

I hope some of you keep your subs and I'm not trying to convince anybody to unsub as I'd like to come back to an excellent game in 2 years but you guys have to get over the lame argument that standards have not risen and that products should not be competitive.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Cepheid

[Cepheid]

it's always funny seeing someone who's not half as smart as they think they are use terms they don't understand. thanks for the chuckle.

 

Anything I can do to give you a much needed ego boost I guess. Feel free to correct me rather than equivocate there superguy as currently you have neither responded with any argument nor made any non personal remarks. Show me how smart you are or how dumb I am or possibly even how smart I think I am.

 

Or just keep on trolling, really I just don't care.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Cepheid

[Kenmori]

I love the argument that the industry should not have been expected to grow in the last 8 years and ergo all expectations for standard MMO features are therefore null and void. The idea that people should settle for less than average because WoW did it is sadly the biggest comparison I see to WoW the days.

 

I hope some of you keep your subs and I'm not trying to convince anybody to unsub as I'd like to come back to an excellent game in 2 years but you guys have to get over the lame argument that standards have not risen and that products should not be competitive.

 

Nicely said!

 

Its entertainment, like it, play it, dont like it dont play

[owenthorn]

I love the argument that the industry should not have been expected to grow in the last 8 years and ergo all expectations for standard MMO features are therefore null and void. The idea that people should settle for less than average because WoW did it is sadly the biggest comparison I see to WoW the days.

 

I hope some of you keep your subs and I'm not trying to convince anybody to unsub as I'd like to come back to an excellent game in 2 years but you guys have to get over the lame argument that standards have not risen and that products should not be competitive.

 

 

 

Exactly, the mouth breathers are just allowing BW to release a mediocre game, and keep it that way, and add more "features" that should have been there to start with

 

you know in other threads, someone complained they should fix the game, before wasting their time allowing your chest to make all your gear match, they QQ about get to 50, and get endgame gear if you want to match, you should earn it, waah waah, guess they didn't know that was already a feature in beta, that BW dropped out

[Microwavegerbil]

Why?

 

- complete incompetence in communication

- No day/night cycle

- No swimming

- No housing

- No Pazaak, Sabacc, Dejarik, races, casino, etc...

- Dumbed down character creation

- No post-creation character customization

- No appearance tab/outfit system

- No high res textures

- No environmental interaction (chairs, walls, doors, etc...)

- Simple combat with static enemies

- Unconvincing and stiff animations

- Empty dead worlds with not enough NPCs moving around

- No collision detection

- No stats on resources

- No crafting customization

- Restriction in choice of starship

- No ship decoration

- Dumbed down space combat

- No multiplayer space combat

- Removal of many races

- No faction change/neutrality

- Restriction and instanced planets by faction

- Less planets than announced

- Planets rated by levels with no reason to go back

- No GM events

- Removal of choice to kill companion

- Removal of possibility to talk to other faction at all times

- No RP tools

- Nothing to do post-story

- Endgame consisting on waiting in fleet

 

more complete description in my sig

 

Beside the story, which is represented in laughable and incredibly poorly made cinematics and dialogues, this game has nothing to offer and nothing to justify 15$ a month.

Basically everything listed there is extremely nitpicky (GM events? No faction change? Killing your companions? REALLY??), stupid and useless (housing, RP tools, swimming), or wrong (chairs, doors, etc ARE in the game).

 

High-res textures is about the only complaint I can give any real credit to. If you want changes, focus on stuff that actually impacts gameplay (smart tab targeting, macros, customizable UI). Fluff has to wait for the game to work out all of the kinks first.

[Dreossk]

What you find stupid is the reason many people play. You are not alone in the world you know?

[Daluu]

it's actually a very small percentage of the overall pop. the qq at the start was mainly from people who thought swtor was going to be something else (what I can't say), but the ones left are more likely the kind of people who simply enjoy trolling or have something to gain. swtor isn't perfect (no game is), but if you don't like it tell BW why when you /cancel and move on. i imagine there's a PR firm or firms out there for some other developers that's making a decent amount of coin from the negative noise.

 

A small percentage huh??

 

I'd like to point you toward this poll which says otherwise:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=312592

 

For those who don't want to click:

 

Do you like SW:TOR in its current state?

 

Yes: 700

 

No: 765

 

Undecided: 108

[Gungan]

Funny I remember when WOW first came out, and everyone was complaining about this bug, and that bug. The unbalance of classes, poor story or lack their of, to much grinding, not enough quests, no real endgame, etc...

 

Basically every New MMO will come out with some bugs and have room for lot of things to be added on. Take this month they will be adding in a lot of new content, and fixes. Plus think this month or next couple they will be adding in new races, companion options, end game, etc.

 

So yea have some patience kids. The games has a ton of room for a lot of great material to be added on.

 

Adding more stuff to a bad experience without improving the experience itself isn't going to make the game better

 

Flashpoints are too easy. Operations are too easy. Rain of epics is showered on you as soon as you hit 50 and there are no goals for people to strive towards because the second you turn your focus on it, the game can sense it and just gives you the reward. Adding another operation that'll be cleared on all 3 difficulties on the first night (barring any gamebreaking bugs) will not improve the game.

 

Space combat would be better, if there weren't only 4 unique mission types and a large variety of tech to strap onto your ship. Sadly, fell short again, and everybody's ship has the same devices. Don't even get me started on not being able to pick your ship.

 

Daily quests are a mind numbing grind. Instead of branching chains with different endings based on how you completed yesterday's step, we have the same crap every day. I don't do dailies anymore. I haven't done dailies since WoW. I do them once, and never do them again.

 

Worst of all, hugeeeee faction disparity. No working LFG tool, and tiny server sizes that make the game feel like a ghost town.

 

Travelling? The load screens! Oh lord the load screens! I don't even want to go anywhere because getting somewhere takes a minimum of 5 load screens.

Edited March 5, 2012 by Gungan

[Sarfux]

because SWTOR is the thing to hate right now. Just like WoW was when it first came out

[Vorphalack]

because SWTOR is the thing to hate right now.

 

I dont hate TOR.

 

I simply judge it to be average to poor when measured against its competition in every comparable area. I do not consider it worth £8.99 a month in its current state, therefore I shall not be paying for it anymore.

 

Am I doing it wrong by not hating?