Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

[asbalana]

 

Absolutely neglecting this all important perfection of combat gameplay in favor of making sure that one can **** their pet that is dressed as a slave.

 

My trooper did have one such encounter. I am sorry to report that there were delayed reactions and several misfires involved.

 

Since the screen blanked out at critical times, I do not believe that this was an anamation issue.

[asbalana]

Hello!

 

We wanted to let you know that Emmanuel just posted an update to the Abilidy Delay issue here:

 

 

 

 

Thank you.

[Slant_DK]

Xcore, you da man.

 

You have brought something to the attention of the powers that be that I have always had a hard time explaining to the average joe. They kept mistaking my rants for "fps problems" or "internet lag", when in fact I usually play at 30-50ms on any game and just like everyone else am completely able to tell the difference between the lightning fast combat pace of WoW in comparison to this.

 

@Bioware:

 

What I feel is most important is that combat input has topmost priority above all animations and other considerations.

 

As far as I know WoW works it in a way that your own actions are first calculated on your client, send to the server and there they are counter checked against other people's/mob's combat inputs and you get the response afterwards.

 

That often led to situations that were slightly awkward: Healer sending off a heal successfully (on his client) and the person still dieing a split second later (because the server as the "supreme ruler of combat" decided that the heal was too late after all). That is just one of the more blatant examples to illustrate how I seem to remember having someone explain it to me.

 

However, SW:TOR seems to thoroughly check everything on the server and THEN sending input response along with action result back to my client.

 

To be clear, I have no way of knowing if my assumptions are correct, but what I want to stress is that the "WoW way" is the right one, even if it leads to awkward situations with contradicting events such as a successful heal still resulting in the tank dieing. Those things we are used to, those split second decisions made by the server don't happen nearly as often as me spamming abilities and them not going of smoothly/fast enough.

 

Also, I want to point out that these problems get ultimately worse in pvp, in my opinion. Now that I explained my point, I could even imagine that being due to combat information sent from both players, compared on the server, send back etc. A lot of waiting time for information to get passed around in an MMO combat situation.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Slant_DK

[asbalana]

Xcore the man.

 

Oh well back to work.

[youwillburn]

>abilidy Edited January 6, 2012 by youwillburn

[Cranberries]

>abilidy

 

Liked

 

If only this was Facebook.

[Attycuss]

Now that we have an official confirmation of the problem from BW, I have to ask this.

 

HOW SERIOUSLY BAD/INATTENTIVE/UNOBSERVANT/SLOW DID YOU HAVE TO BE TO NOT NOTICE THIS PROBLEM WITHIN THE FIRST HOUR OF PLAYING THIS GAME?

 

I can't believe the sheer number of people who denied this problem even existed and called us whiners when the problem was so painstakingly obvious. Seriously.

 

I hope to God that I don't group with any of these players because these are probably the same players that fail to observe a gigantic firewall coming at them at 10 miles per hour.

 

To be fair, on my assassin I didn't really notice it till I got the skill assassinate, and when I started pvping regularly. But once I noticed it, I really noticed it. Glad its being fixed.

[Xcore]

Xcore, you da man.

 

You have brought something to the attention of the powers that be that I have always had a hard time explaining to the average joe. They kept mistaking my rants for "fps problems" or "internet lag", when in fact I usually play at 30-50ms on any game and just like everyone else am completely able to tell the difference between the lightning fast combat pace of WoW in comparison to this.

 

@Bioware:

 

What I feel is most important is that combat input has topmost priority above all animations and other considerations.

 

As far as I know WoW works it in a way that your own actions are first calculated on your client, send to the server and there they are counter checked against other people's/mob's combat inputs and you get the response afterwards.

 

That often led to situations that were slightly awkward: Healer sending off a heal successfully (on his client) and the person still dieing a split second later (because the server as the "supreme ruler of combat" decided that the heal was too late after all). That is just one of the more blatant examples to illustrate how I seem to remember having someone explain it to me.

 

However, SW:TOR seems to thoroughly check everything on the server and THEN sending input response along with action result back to my client.

 

To be clear, I have no way of knowing if my assumptions are correct, but what I want to stress is that the "WoW way" is the right one, even if it leads to awkward situations with contradicting events such as a successful heal still resulting in the tank dieing. Those things we are used to, those split second decisions made by the server don't happen nearly as often as me spamming abilities and them not going of smoothly/fast enough.

 

Also, I want to point out that these problems get ultimately worse in pvp, in my opinion. Now that I explained my point, I could even imagine that being due to combat information sent from both players, compared on the server, send back etc. A lot of waiting time for information to get passed around in an MMO combat situation.

 

Thanks, I agree with your post and just want to add, to give more weight and gravity to the sheer scale of this issues. Without fixing this, the foundation... The game cannot have meaningful PvE or PvP experiences. This is then ultimately the point of failure of an MMO...

 

All past, present and future content Is dependant on the fix and complete and absolute best and most precise feeling of Avatar response.

[gurugeorge]

Now that we have an official confirmation of the problem from BW, I have to ask this.

 

HOW SERIOUSLY BAD/INATTENTIVE/UNOBSERVANT/SLOW DID YOU HAVE TO BE TO NOT NOTICE THIS PROBLEM WITHIN THE FIRST HOUR OF PLAYING THIS GAME?

 

I can't believe the sheer number of people who denied this problem even existed and called us whiners when the problem was so painstakingly obvious. Seriously.

 

I hope to God that I don't group with any of these players because these are probably the same players that fail to observe a gigantic firewall coming at them at 10 miles per hour.

 

/facepalm

 

It's not actually apparent on all characters at all times. The intermittent nature of the problem is part of the problem. I had no hint of it early on, but in the past few days roundabout lvl 30 my JK has been having real problems (on good latency).

 

So it's quite possible for someone not to experience it, especially as a casual gamer.

 

And there has been enough false positive whining on these forums for the responsiveness issue to probably seem like another whine - until one experiences it oneself.

 

I think also, the issue has been mixed in with people merely wishing for a different gameplay style (strict animation clipping) - i.e. nostalgia for WoW - and that has created some "noise" in the topic.

 

The truth is somewhere in the middle. Yes, SWTOR's gameplay style is a bit more, shall we say, leisurely, and more precious about looks. But also, yes, it's intermittently clunky, unresponsive, and obviously not quite WAI.

[Xcore]

/facepalm

 

It's not actually apparent on all characters at all times. The intermittent nature of the problem is part of the problem. I had no hint of it early on, but in the past few days roundabout lvl 30 my JK has been having real problems (on good latency).

 

So it's quite possible for someone not to experience it, especially as a casual gamer.

 

And there has been enough false positive whining on these forums for the responsiveness issue to probably seem like another whine - until one experiences it oneself.

 

I think also, the issue has been mixed in with people merely wishing for a different gameplay style (strict animation clipping) - i.e. nostalgia for WoW - and that has created some "noise" in the topic.

 

The truth is somewhere in the middle. Yes, SWTOR's gameplay style is a bit more, shall we say, leisurely, and more precious about looks. But also, yes, it's intermittently clunky, unresponsive, and obviously not quite WAI.

 

You are wrong, on every single point In the above post. It is a very easy issue to replicate at will, in fact each of the multitude of issues that culminate into the overall feeling of responsiveness is easily replicated.

 

Furthermore, IF YOU HAVE LEARNED ANYTHING - THIS IS NOT INTERMITTENT!

 

If it appears Intermittent, the issue is your lack of perception and understanding.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Xcore

[Holden_Dissent]

Now that we have an official confirmation of the problem from BW, I have to ask this.

 

HOW SERIOUSLY BAD/INATTENTIVE/UNOBSERVANT/SLOW DID YOU HAVE TO BE TO NOT NOTICE THIS PROBLEM WITHIN THE FIRST HOUR OF PLAYING THIS GAME?

 

I can't believe the sheer number of people who denied this problem even existed and called us whiners when the problem was so painstakingly obvious. Seriously.

 

I hope to God that I don't group with any of these players because these are probably the same players that fail to observe a gigantic firewall coming at them at 10 miles per hour.

 

Bioware can make all the statements that they want. The only time I ever have an issue is in Warzones.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Holden_Dissent

[BubbleTrousers]

I was a very competitive WoW player in both pvp and pve. But the game got old for me and I have been looking for a new MMO to play for a couple years now. Needless to say i was very exited for TOR, and still am I should say. It's the most fun I've had playing a game in quit a while.

 

That said, if this issue isn't resolved I'm not sure how seriously I'll be able to take end-game content and PvP.

 

I really, really hope this hero engine thingamajigger gets fixed

[Gurkburkenen]

Bioware can make all the statements that they want. The only time I ever have an issue is in Warzones.

 

Cause sitting in Republic fleet is where you need to click your buttons. oh wait..

[gurugeorge]

You are wrong, on every single point In the above post. It is a very easy issue to replicate at will, in fact each of the multitude of issues that culminate into the overall feeling of responsiveness is easily replicated.

 

Furthermore, IF YOU HAVE LEARNED ANYTHING - THIS IS NOT INTERMITTENT!

 

 

I am afraid it is.

 

There are several issues that have been mixed up in your threads. I suspect there's a bit of an irony here in that you aren't necessarily talking about what some other people are talking about. I think that's why the initial polite BW response to your thread was "it's a complex problem", because in fact there's a fair bit of talking at cross-purposes in all your threads. You all think you're agreeing about the same thing but it's clear to an outside observer that not all the participants in the thread are talking about the same thing.

 

The long and the short of it is that some of you just have WoW-nostalgia and find the system feels "clunky" to you even when it's working properly; others actually do notice a genuine problem of delayed actions, animation stutters, etc., but that problem is in fact intermittent, i.e. it doesn't happen all the time (and it's not fps or lag related).

[neocoma]

Well the problem is always there. You just wont notice it that much while questing. But there are areas where it happens a lot. In warzones for example. Then it hits like a truck. besides, what about the issue to not being able to shoot an ability for a longer period of time? Is this still considered delay? Talking about 10+ secs here mainly the problem that I cant use cloak of pain + saber ward in a row in warzones but while questing without problems.

 

Anyway ...instead of fixing nonsense they should fix that crap ASAP. Otherwise lots of account will not resub another month. Call it a hunch.

[Flebberflep]

If the problem is present, it will be noticed no matter where your character happens to be.

 

Those saying you won't notice it during questing, BS. That's just you trying to explain away the people who are saying there isn't a problem.

 

I'm in the middle, there most certainly is a problem, but I don't think it's solely with the animations. The problem with animations is that the channeling animations are ever so slightly too long, other than that they're fine.

 

The real problem is the combination of abilities not firing, the GCD firing for no reason, and non-GCD abilties triggering the GCD. Once those are fixed, the combat will be fine. It's different from what we're used to, sure, but it's fine.

[Etravex]

You are wrong, on every single point In the above post. It is a very easy issue to replicate at will, in fact each of the multitude of issues that culminate into the overall feeling of responsiveness is easily replicated.

 

Furthermore, IF YOU HAVE LEARNED ANYTHING - THIS IS NOT INTERMITTENT!

 

If it appears Intermittent, the issue is your lack of perception and understanding.

 

Exactly,

 

If you disagree with the OP's assessment on the current ability delay and character responsiveness then:

 

1. You haven't spent anytime testing it out in game.

2. You are to enthralled with SWTOR that you choose to live in ignorance.

3. You've spent to much time playing cheap and unresponsive MMOs and therefore are oblivious to the current character response problems.

4. You never played WoW competitively.

 

Regardless of which (or all) of the above options you might fall under, the problem still exists. If you don't care to take the time to see that problem then, unfortunately, when the story is done, you have multiple alts at 50, or when that new game feeling starts to subside you will look back and realize "ya there was a problem." Furthermore, you will have regretted not taking the time to help the situation NOW as the voice of many still has the chance of being heard. The more you choose to defend the broken system the further you delay any fix; and by that time it may be to late.

[KingKroova]

Supporting this thread. They need to polish up the combat and responsiveness in general. Combat feels just a tad too clunky, it's very close to being polished, but not quite there yet (at least in my experience thus far).

 

I agree that if they don't address this issue, this game won't lost very long as people spoiled by highly polished games like WoW will leave (sounds silly but a smooth game experience is one of the most important aspects of an MMO or any game for that matter).

 

Hope it's not a core engine issue as is possible, would make it really hard to fix I'm guessing =/.

Edited January 6, 2012 by KingKroova

[Hairless]

I get the feeling that some people are intentionally denying the problem because they secretly want the combat to remain slow and clunky as it is right now. Go play Hello kitty Island Adventures if you want to be braindead and still play a game.

[gurugeorge]

Well the problem is always there. You just wont notice it that much while questing. But there are areas where it happens a lot. In warzones for example. Then it hits like a truck. besides, what about the issue to not being able to shoot an ability for a longer period of time? Is this still considered delay? Talking about 10+ secs here mainly the problem that I cant use cloak of pain + saber ward in a row in warzones but while questing without problems.

 

Anyway ...instead of fixing nonsense they should fix that crap ASAP. Otherwise lots of account will not resub another month. Call it a hunch.

 

If you don't see the problem when questing it can't be "always there".

 

My point stands: sometimes the system works fine, it's just a different system from WoW, it doesn't go so heavily into animation clipping, and it's more concerned with looking good. If it were just that, there would be no problem, because everyone would be on a level playing field.

 

However, at times there are definitely problems with delay and animation that aren't lag-related, and are seemingly random - i.e. the system obviously is not working as intended, it's misfiring sometimes, or delaying firing, or out of sync, in some way. This is not a level playing field because you can bet your bottom dollar that there will be occasions when one person has the problem and his opponent doesn't.

 

THIS is the real problem. SWTOR just having a different style of avatar control is NOT a problem.

[gurugeorge]

If the problem is present, it will be noticed no matter where your character happens to be.

 

Those saying you won't notice it during questing, BS. That's just you trying to explain away the people who are saying there isn't a problem.

 

I'm in the middle, there most certainly is a problem, but I don't think it's solely with the animations. The problem with animations is that the channeling animations are ever so slightly too long, other than that they're fine.

 

The real problem is the combination of abilities not firing, the GCD firing for no reason, and non-GCD abilties triggering the GCD. Once those are fixed, the combat will be fine. It's different from what we're used to, sure, but it's fine.

 

Exactly.

[Halacs]

I hope everyone has seen the sticky at the top of the page by the devs.

They are implementing fixes later this month!!!!!!!

 

Agree or not, the fix is in for a real problem.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Halacs

[Bob-ombaFett]

You are wrong, on every single point In the above post. It is a very easy issue to replicate at will, in fact each of the multitude of issues that culminate into the overall feeling of responsiveness is easily replicated.

 

Furthermore, IF YOU HAVE LEARNED ANYTHING - THIS IS NOT INTERMITTENT!

 

If it appears Intermittent, the issue is your lack of perception and understanding.

 

Man... you can be a ***** sometimes. LOL

 

Still, I agree that most people who don't notice this issue are either accepting that the gameplay just happens to be different or can't tell the difference due to poor performance from their hardware.

[Wrakk]

what about the issue to not being able to shoot an ability for a longer period of time? Is this still considered delay? Talking about 10+ secs here.

 

Yep it's even more obvious in PvP. Horrible, horrible, horrible!!!

[Halacs]

Man... you can be a ***** sometimes. LOL

 

Still, I agree that most people who don't notice this issue are either accepting that the gameplay just happens to be different or can't tell the difference due to poor performance from their hardware.

 

See the sticky at the top of the forums.