Sunsinger Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Seems to me the easiest solution would be to add a companion button so its Need Companion Greed Disassemble and Pass, if you roll companion it would be second to need and before greed maybe? or is that just a second greed button at that point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piethief Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 agree, don't baby cry, adapt it. Adapt to people's rudeness? Welcome to the wonderful world of MMOs where we're encouraged to descend to the lowest level of the community. Companion looting hit me on the flashpoint I did after my starter planet. I haven't rolled in a random PvE group since. Guild groups everytime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJedi Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) OP, You are a dinosaur. Your line of thinking is archaic. You might want to take a very close look at yourself if you want to find the true root of the problem. Loot drama begins with you. Loot drama is never caused by the person who rolls on a piece of loot. It's caused by the guy who loses the roll and whines about it. Loot drama in this game is so silly anyway. I barely ever roll need on anything because it's mostly crap to begin with. Once you get fully modifiable gear, the only real upgrades are item enhancements. Get over your greed. You don't "need" anything for your "main" character. Edited January 5, 2012 by EJedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterneo Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I think that as a player participating in the Flashpoint or Heroic, you have a right to roll "need" for your companion. The Flashpoints and Heroics were made to be repeated, and if someone decides to "Need" an object, another person can also "need" that object, therefore rolling for the object and a fair winner is decided by the outcome. If you lost, you can re-run the Flashpoint or Heroic, problem solved. To say that only players deserve the said gear is ridiculous, when every participant of the Flashpoint and Heroic has worked hard to achieve the final goal of having that gear they deserve the right to win that gear for their companion to benefit themselves. I find it absurd how players can be so selfish when they forget the rolling system is based on who gets the higher number, so you cannot technically steal the item from the other. You WIN the item by the rules. If someone cares enough to cry over an item that has no value in the real world, they are a loss cause. I vote for companion needs as well. If it's such a big issue, maximize your level (50) and solo the Flashpoint with your companion and get the loot that way, instead of harrassing and insulting a player for wanting to gear their companion. The planets after level 40 are rather tough when solo'd so proper companion gear is essential. So what we just have a roll option? no need greed disenchant? everyone just rolls? boom thats fair? fair enough if they implement that but i doubt it. And trying to change the general rules for looting to include npc companions who are not present in the instance will just cause fights fall outs and anger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sataren Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 stoppid npc with bad ai does not enhance my game experience, it's a frickin Massive Multiplayer Game. stoppid npc with bad ai stoppid ummmm..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restepor Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Look, here's the bottom line: if a piece drops that's an upgrade for my companion but not for me, I'm going to roll Need on it. Hell, I'll even roll Need on it if it's four players in the group. My companion needs to keep their gear updated just like I do, so their output is acceptable while I'm out questing on my own. I spend the majority of my time questing on my own. I'm in a Flashpoint for 30 minutes tops. Companions are extensions of the player characters. It isn't going to change. I'm not going to roll Need on an item that requires a specific class and alignment unless I'm both of those things. But if a piece drops for, say, Jaesa (light armor with Endurance and Willpower), and it doesn't put a class or alignment requirement on it, and it's an upgrade from what she currently has in that slot, I'm going to roll Need on it. I was in there, I helped down the boss, I have as much right to a piece of gear as any of the other players. It's no one else's business what I do with that gear. My feeling are the exact same. Companions are your extension of your character, at the same time I would be a little PO if a Purple item drooped that was for a Vanguard and a Smuggler selected need for it, I would be a little angry. Also, George Lucas had nothing to do with it. He's a nice man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakamp Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 The loot system is Need before greed but it seems everyone is trying to super impose their definition of need onto other people. As for those who said people will roll on everything if they allow people to roll need for companion. Its not hard to tell if someone is really rolling for companion or if he is rolling everything and use companion as an excuse. I know everybody have campanion of any type but I don't believe he will use every companion at all. Most player will use at most 3 companion while questing. How often you see player switching companion while questing? I've seen non. let everyone roll for anything, just one roll button, dont bind item, let player trade for anything, so there wont be this kind of issue, blame EA, BW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJedi Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) So what we just have a roll option? no need greed disenchant? everyone just rolls? boom thats fair? fair enough if they implement that but i doubt it. And trying to change the general rules for looting to include npc companions who are not present in the instance will just cause fights fall outs and anger. Let me explain the roll options: Need: I want it Greed: I'll take it if you don't want it Pass: I don't want it It's as simple as that. Companions do not factor into the equation. Nobody "deserves" a specific piece of loot. If anyone thinks they do, then they're not grouping for the right reasons. Edited January 5, 2012 by EJedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderslice Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 So your playing the game to give gear away that you could use and need to others huh ? wow, what a wonderfull person.. just mail me any good gear from now on please. If you could use it and its an upgrade then need it, simple. You did the work int he group just everyone else, you have a fair shot at the loot, again simple. I can understand why people get disappointed in missing out on something.. but getting y panties in a twist over a virtual game item that someone else won fairly is crazy.. Seek help I would roll on the gear if the other party members didnt need the upgrade for themselves. If they didnt need it i would roll need for my companion, That is respect, reminds me arounfd the time I quit playing wow, I was the tank I need these boots that were a upgrade but lost them to someone that already HAD THE EXACT BOOTS already, but needed anyway for off spec. If the Community supports this, this game is doomed to fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheToony Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Lucky ninja looting for companions is frowned on and will likely just end up with the ninja looter rarely finding groups to complete missions with. I have no qualms kicking you from my group for rolling need on a lightsaber when you're a bounty hunter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJedi Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) I would roll on the gear if the other party members didnt need the upgrade for themselves. If they didnt need it i would roll need for my companion, That is respect, reminds me arounfd the time I quit playing wow, I was the tank I need these boots that were a upgrade but lost them to someone that already HAD THE EXACT BOOTS already, but needed anyway for off spec. If the Community supports this, this game is doomed to fail. The dice make the decision. Don't blame the other players. Lucky ninja looting for companions is frowned on and will likely just end up with the ninja looter rarely finding groups to complete missions with. I have no qualms kicking you from my group for rolling need on a lightsaber when you're a bounty hunter. It's not ninja looting. At worst it's ninja rolling, and that really only applies if the person waits for everyone else to roll greed before rolling need. I agree that that type of behavior is bad. Edited January 5, 2012 by EJedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterneo Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 To be perfectly honest, I think the existence of companions in this game makes Need Before Greed a suboptimal system of loot distribution. Since companions are part of our characters that require upgrades just the same as our main characters, and since they often require upgrades of a type that our main character might not be able to use, it makes much more sense to have loot distribution in groups be on a Roll/Pass system. Either you want it or you don't. It doesn't matter if you need it for an upgrade or want to give it to a companion. And heck, if it's BoE, make it bound once you roll for it. There: you can't do anything with it other than use it, give it to a companion, or vendor it for a very low number of credits. Bottom line: what any player does with a piece of gear is no other player's business. If someone rolls Need, the other players can't do anything but assume they need it. Past that, it doesn't matter. And if a particular item is so important to you that you'd be willing to stall an entire group while you attempt to argue about its ultimate disposition, just run the Flashpoint again until it drops, and take your shot at it. You're never guaranteed loot in group content. You're only guaranteed a chance at loot. I agree with the issues companions make with the current norm for loot. But at endgame are you really going to be using your companions? unless your a total solo player, which in my opinion then you shouldnt be playing a MMORPG. I dont know i wouldnt make an issue of it if it happened to me. Im not saying i wouldnt be annoying if it was a big upgrade for me (Lets say tank whos tanked the whole instance) and a sage rolls on guardian gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schwerpunkt Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Being a long time City of Heroes player I like their system of handling how items drop while on teams. Over there, there is no "Need or Greed" BS going on, each player earns their own drops, and it doesn't matter if the player can use what drops or not. If something drops he can't use he can give it away, sell it, or discard it. But no one can snag loot by being a greedy prig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterneo Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 One solution is to state the loot rules up front. If someone doesn't agree, they can choose to leave the group. If they agree to the rules and then break said rules then the 'ninja' label is somewhat more applicable. These people's reps get out there on their server and they eventually pay the price. Good idea getting people to do it though another story.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderslice Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Lol at the people supporting needing on off spec gear, yet complaing about a grp finder because it ruins community's. MAN ALREADY THE COMMUNITY SCREAMS FAILED MMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haluo Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 If you need it, need it. Even if its for your companion who cares ? its a fair system and you have just as much of a chance to win it as others.. Moaning about losing a toss is childish. It may be annoying when you lose a roll to someone that needs it for a companion but deal with it.. its better than some idiot needing just to sell it. no problem dude im jumping on the bandwagon with all my companions i can use anything that drops, i will just need everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJedi Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Good idea getting people to do it though another story.. How long are you really in a group? Most of my experience has been someone saying, "LFG <random heroic>!" People group, kill the crap, then drop group. There isn't time for loot drama. People are too busy leveling and replacing their gear every half hour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheToony Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Blah blah blah, you will be kicked nonsense is worthless trite. I find groups just fine when I want to... go figure how you magically decide to paint me as one of the people rolling Need of companions. How wonderfully trollish of you. You "Raid" with companions for almost the entire length of the game. Take alot of players with you on every quest from start to finish, do you ? Companion Usage > Player involvement. End of Story. Grow up and get with the times, companions are part of your character and a major component of the game as such the system works fine. You want to make up custom rules for your own private little niche groups then do them yourself. Expecting BW to compensate for your own inadequate abilities to manage your own groups and the people your bringing into them is hilariously sad. Get some friends rather than PUG... then you wont have this problem... right ? I actually can't say I've had a companion active in a group past level 16. So really, no, you should not be rolling need because your companion did not help the group. Your companion wasn't even there. So why does your companion who did absolutely nothing come before the trooper who just healed you for an hour? If you're going to roll need for something that wasn't in the group helping, then why can't I roll need on that lightsaber for my jedi alt? Now if your companion was in the group the entire time then maybe I'd be okay with it. But chances are they probably weren't. How geared your companion is while you solo means nothing to the group and the group shouldn't have to pay your way so you can more easily solo champions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJedi Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 no problem dude im jumping on the bandwagon with all my companions i can use anything that drops, i will just need everything. This is where you have become the bad guy. You're just being a jerk, rolling on everything whether you need it or not, just to throw a tantrum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnElias Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 And trying to change the general rules for looting to include npc companions who are not present in the instance will just cause fights fall outs and anger. Out of curiosity, please post the rules so we may see them. This game is very much pushed to either grouping/soloing. When a person decides to solo his adventure, he will need an effective companion. Flashpoints and Heroics give great loot to gear a companion on this adventure. Have you tried doing every quest on a planet, such as every Heroic and the Bonus Series Heroics? It gets difficult, and difficult, the higher level you are. You NEED to upgrade your companion or you will die countless times. I will guarantee you this, no matter how good you are, you will die. Yes, quests give efficient gear for your companion, but not good enough to keep them alive 24/7. The Need / Greed was made for this exact reason. You "Greed" it if YOU have no use for it. YOU as in the player; this includes companions or anything involving you and your experience with the game. If you "Need" it, this means you can therefore use it with your companion or yourself. It's a fair win especially when the loot winner is chosen at random. Do not push this topic because you will fail. Everyone has an equal chance at winning the gear they have worked hard in getting. If I DPS/Heal/Tank for 30 minutes and get nothing out of the instance, how should a person feel? Simply because a DPS deserves a loot that favors Strength but did nothing in that instance, do they deserve it? No. End of story, stop arguing this fact because obviously gearing and feeling special in this game is your main concern. There's more to this game than internet popularity; which is the mindset of most players who forget that at the end of the day, we'll all have the same loot/gear/****. Done, served, end of topic, we win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterneo Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 So your playing the game to give gear away that you could use and need to others huh ? wow, what a wonderfull person.. just mail me any good gear from now on please. If you could use it and its an upgrade then need it, simple. You did the work int he group just everyone else, you have a fair shot at the loot, again simple. I can understand why people get disappointed in missing out on something.. but getting y panties in a twist over a virtual game item that someone else won fairly is crazy.. Seek help My panties are in no twist my friend lol. Im just discussing (with passion RAWR!) Reason i get annoyed is if i followed these rules in most groups I would be labeled a NINJA, Selfish ETC! Changing this opinion on loot will take time. Fair enough if it becomes the norm ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vydor_HC Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 I have no problem with people rolling for companions, it's a very important part of character development. This game is fundamentally different in that respect, people just need to change their paradigm from past games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blanketz Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 My favorite is the guy who says he needs it because he needs the credits... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnElias Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 If you're going to roll need for something that wasn't in the group helping, then why can't I roll need on that lightsaber for my jedi alt? Illogical because you deserve that lightsaber for your alternate. You participated in this instance, you tanked, or DPSed the whole time, so what if the healer healed you? You did the exact equivalent therefore you deserve exactly what the healer deserves. End of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterneo Posted January 5, 2012 Share Posted January 5, 2012 Yet, here's the pot calling the kettle black. I don't level through PvP or flashpoints. I spend 99.99% of my time questing. I do every single quest in sight, so I know exactly what is needed for a companion to be relevant in any situation. What "rules" are you referring to that I supposedly made up? The fact of the matter is, you don't like that I'm pointing out obvious, not to mention numerous, avenues to upgrade companions. There is never any need to Need for companions. Ever. It's flat out wrong to say that at any point in the questing experience, that farming flashpoints is necessary for companions. Companions don't need top level gear, not even tanks or healers. Heck, the other examples I provided will often give you gear that is on your level. I gave avenues to obtain gear without spending resources. That is what you want, isn't it? I know that the companion is necessary for the player experience, I don't understand your repetitive desire to bring up this argument that no one has yet presented. You act as though the companion is absolutely vital for you to get anywhere. I ask, what happens to you when your companion dies? Do you go down with them immediately? You are the player character, you are the one that's supposed to be the most deadly out of the both of you, no matter what role your companion plays. Companions are meant to assist you, they do not need to match you at any point in the questing experience. Fact is, Needing for companions is illogical. They do not play a viable roll in group content 99% of the time. Group content is for PCs not companions. Whether people agree or not isn't an issue because of the sheer amount of other ways to obtain upgraded gear without spending any resources. I support this well said. Im to dumb to word it so well =P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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