Every group is full of greedy ninja companion looters.

[xrodney]

So in your opinion every player should just need everything, since we all have 5 companions and need every type of gear.

 

Well you usually have only 1-2 companions that you use frequently and on one of them you really depend on. Rest I don't really care about upgrading their gear once in time with what you find is fine.

[Eldren]

The presence of companions is assumed in the difficulty curve of the leveling content. Try taking on a quest boss without your companion present. If you can really do it outside of massively outleveling it, bravo. Most players at level can't do it without their companions.

 

Since the presence of companions is assumed by the game's difficulty curve, it only makes sense to keep those companions relevant. This means they require upgrades from time to time. This isn't an argument about whether upgrades available via commendations, quest rewards or GTN purchases are "sufficient", as that's entirely up to a given player who wants a given level of output from their companion. All we're discussing here is that companions require upgrades. Other players don't get to determine where those upgrades come from.

 

I typically roll around with Jaesa Willsaam on my Sith Marauder. Two damage-dealers take things down fairly fast. On occasion I'll come up against a quest boss that I can't take down alongside Jaesa, even with using my cooldowns, interrupts and medpacks. At that point, I'll put Jaesa aside and call in Quinn. Every time I do it, his healing is just enough to keep me alive to down the boss. Then, since I still want to focus on Jaesa, I resummon her before completing the quest so my rep goes up with her from any conversation options in finishing the quest.

 

As a result, I'm only personally likely to roll on equipment that's useful for Quinn or Jaesa, or myself of course. This means that I'm not going to roll on any gear that requires any class other than Sith Warrior or any alignment other than Dark Side: items with such requirements can't be used by me or my companions, since I'm a Dark Side Sith Warrior, and companions have neither a class or alignment.

 

But make no mistake: if an item that's an upgrade for those companions drops, I'm going to roll Need on it. Need is there to signify you're going to use it as an upgrade. Companions are an upgrade path equivalent to characters, because their presence is assumed by the game in setting up encounters outside Flashpoints and Operations.

 

I'll be nice and ask first, but trust me on this: if the item is a significant-enough upgrade, I'm going to roll on it either way. I'm doing a courtesy by asking: it isn't required. If this gets me kicked from a group, that's fine. Right back outside the instance entrance I'll go, and I'll form up with another group, and head right back in. More upgrade possibilities for me!

 

We cooperate to down bosses. Don't fool yourself, however: once the loot window comes up, it's every player for him or herself. We aren't there to help other players get gear. We're there to contribute our efforts towards downing bosses so we have a chance to get gear.

 

There is no other motivation as it relates to items in group content.

[Kashaan]

*sigh*

 

The solution is simple, people. When you start a group, make sure to state the loot rules. If everyone agrees to only need on gear their character can use (unless it's not an upgrade for the person who can use it), then there isn't an issue. If someone doesn't agree, then you kick them. And if the leader of the party always waits to be the last to roll, then they can kick anyone who breaks the rules.

 

BW's stance on the subject is clear (stated by SR): Even if a player can't use the item for themselves or their companion, they can still sell it. Everyone has a right to gear.

 

To be honest, I agree with this in principle. However, in practice, I follow the rule: You only roll on gear for the role you are participating as. If I'm tanking, I don't roll on DPS gear, for example. And if I'm not using my companion, I can't roll on gear for it.

 

Of course, if the item is useless to the person who can use it, then it's up for grabs.

[Moikko]

Normal procedure is that you will ask from other groupies that can u need certain item for your companion..

I haven't had anyone needing stuff clearly for their companion without asking first.

 

But i bet there is too many of those, which is sad..

[Mahuloq]

Yes, Its wrong

 

Your companion doesn't need to be in super up-to-date gear, and most of the time it is not even contributing to the group. We end up with 5 companions. When everyone rolls "Need" on things for their companions, it defeats the purpose of having loot rolls in the first place because eventually everything that drops could conceivably be considered an upgrade for our companions....even though we don't even use our companions in group content.

 

There are plenty of ways to get gear via solo play. Quest greens are plenty good for companions, and we can spend commendations....We can even go back to solo FPs for any moddable loot that we might want to pick up for our companions.

 

I find it disrespectful when someone rolls "Need" on something for their companion without asking if an actual player needs it first. The actual player is the one who helped you kill the boss that dropped the loot in the first place. Actual humans should have priority over any NPC.

 

I have actually used my companion to tank things while I healed, and I still wouldn't roll on things for my companion if another player in the group needed the upgrade.

 

I won't cause drama over it. I'll just leave the group. You can have your companion tank/heal the instance since you apparently feel that it contributes more to the group than I do. There's no point in me sticking around to help someone clear content if they are just going to try and screw us over on the loot rolls.

 

By bellaile

 

------------------

 

In my opinion, yes it is wrong. I can state as fact that this is considered bad behavior by the majority of players, which is a separate issue as to whether it's wrong. I will put this as simply as concisely as I can.

 

Raiding and grouping contains an element of give-and-take. You put in your skills and time, and you get out a reward. The loot you get from a flashpoint is your reward for contributing your abilities and skills. Your companion did not help to complete the flashpoint, therefore your companion should not share in the spoils of the flashpoint over another player who did help complete it, and by doing so helped everyone get the rewards of the flashpoint, whatever those might be.

 

Secondly, people generally run instances multiple times to get gear. If everyone only needs on what they actually use, and lets the rest go, mathematically everyone will get all the gear they need and be out of the instance in the quickest amount of time. I've actually written a little program to test this. Once you start adding in people needing on things they don't need, assuming everyone keeps doing the instance to get x amount of gear, the total amount of runs everyone needs begins to rise sharply. Only needing on things you need is part of a "social contract" that, when followed, results in speedy gear gain for everyone, even if on a particular run you may get nothing. This is what people don't understand who argue that "you can benefit from the money" or similar. By not adhering to this simple social propriety, you hurt not only everyone else but yourself as well. It has nothing to do with entitlement. The first time you start having to do raids over and over to get an item so that you can do even higher level raids, you realize its in everyone's best interest to cooperate so you have to repeat the same content as few times as possible. Sometimes this means you let other people have items even though you could need on them, and hopefully in the future the will reciprocate.

 

Keep in mind, companions do fine with quested or crafted or pvp or commendation gear, even when it's not the best. When you need on something you yourself don't use for flashpoints, you may have just consigned the trooper across from you to running the instance another 5 times to get that hat he wanted. Is your computer-controlled companion really more important than him?

 

In any case it's always best to ask your group if you're not sure what's okay, and if you run a group to set the rules ahead of time. In WoW my rules were simple: I master-loot everything and you can't roll need on things you can't use. Works beautifully. So far in TOR I have said the same thing and never had a problem with any player: "Need on items you yourself can use. Need for a companion without asking and you're kicked." but in nicer words.

 

By Osunightfall

[xrodney]

Normal procedure is that you will ask from other groupies that can u need certain item for your companion..

I haven't had anyone needing stuff clearly for their companion without asking first.

 

But i bet there is too many of those, which is sad..

 

Fine for rare stuff, but for greens...

Some people are really hard to argue with.

Hell I even had guy screaming for needing on green when all rolled greed/pass.

[Gwena]

This is an interesting discussion! Personally, I think it is better to not roll need for your companion unless you have discussed it with your group.

 

Though, I can see the other side of the debate. I do almost all of my questing solo with my companion (like many others), and whenever it is gear upgrade time, I have to get new gear for him too. Because my squishy healer self needs good gear, but also needs a well outfitted companion to tank so I don't, y'know, die all the time. Solo content was designed for player + companion, as far as I can determine.

 

To complicate things further, some people swap out companions regularly and want to keep all/several of them geared nicely. I can almost understand someone rolling need for the one companion that they always use and can't solo anything without, but rolling need for a companion could mean rolling need for any one of your companions, even one you leave on your ship 90% of the time.

 

IMHO a "Need (Companion)" option might be the simplest solution. It wouldn't stop people from "ninja'ing" anything, but it would give people that want gear for their companions precedence over those who don't have a use for it.

[Glower]

need for companion

 

Please, add this function to roll window.

[Andyonme]

This is why you join a guild so you don't ever have to play in pugs, not to mention the reapir costs going in hard mode pugs would be ridiculous.

[Khoranth]

Well you usually have only 1-2 companions that you use frequently and on one of them you really depend on. Rest I don't really care about upgrading their gear once in time with what you find is fine.

 

The point is, everyone has 5 companions, so if the community accepts needing for companions, then everyone may as well roll need on every drop.

 

If you want to need for pets, you should discuss it with the group beforehand.

[Ansultares]

It's odd that even after everyone here had played the game for several weeks that some people don't grasp that a companion is not a pet as defined by other MMOs. It is a central part of the functionality of your character... I need my tank to have good armor just as badly as I need a new blaster... it's two vital parts of the same player's needs.

If you roll need on an armor upgrade I need, then I'll stop tanking at that pull, and won't group with you again if we even manage to complete it. It's courteous to check if the other human beings in your group actually need the item for their own progression instead of prioritizing your pet's progression ahead of theirs. It's a social game; be sociable, not selfish. Besides, chances are that my own pet would have been a more appreciated group member anyway; he's certainly proven himself as such in the past.

 

If they use all of those companions, then yep. Wanna blame the problem on someone, blame it on EAware's design, not the players.

I'll blame it on you for confusing group content and its rewards with a singe-player feature. There are plenty of other methods available for upgrading your pet. Quest rewards are reserved for them, equipment and commendation vendors on every planet which will sell you non-class gear, boe drops along the way, crafting if that interests you, and the GTN if you have an excess of credits. Need rolling for your pet on boss drops in a dungeon, or even boe prototypes/artifacts, is awful form, and displays a lack of character.

 

What I hate are people who don't understand this game is handled different.

It's not a matter of how valuable it is for your pet. It's an issue of being appreciative of your group mates. They're not running a welfare program, dragging your *** through a FP so you can gear your pet. Edited January 6, 2012 by Ansultares

[holymyarse]

I personally don't care what everyone else thinks is the right or wrong way to play,i will continue to play in groups without being rude or ignorant or greedy,i would feel guilty any other way,if people want to be ***** to other members of the community then eventually the word will get around(hopefully).

The best and only solution is to run guild groups

[Saurakk]

The point is, everyone has 5 companions, so if the community accepts needing for companions, then everyone may as well roll need on every drop.

 

If you want to need for pets, you should discuss it with the group beforehand.

 

Well that is the humorous trend I see from the "I will roll NEED on anything I want!" crowd.

 

They feel secure in their stance on here but I bet 99% of them DO NOT state their intention before joining a group full well knowing their stance is a serious minority among players in the game.

 

They do not do this because they know more times than not they will be told they CANNOT do it so its better just to play dumb and click the NEED as the group goes on.

 

SOLUTION: Just be up front about your greed..I am sorry...your unique looting strategy....before the group wastes time helping you gear up your companion's.

[Democratus]

Actual humans should have priority over any NPC.

 

Your character isn't an actual human. It's a construct in the game, as are the companions. All of which are part of your gaming experience.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Democratus

[DarthMarisa]

I truly don't understand the suggestions that adding varieties of "for companion" button is the solution, it's not. I'm not even going to restate my personal opinion on this whole issue but the gist of the problem is that people are upset that other people roll need. There are various reason they do it - for their companion, for wealth, because their mother's brother's uncle needs it and he always plays with them...

 

Regardless of the reason, people who roll need for reasons you don't agree with are still going to click the basic need button regardless of how many other optional buttons you present to them. There is no mechanics issue that is going to solve this problem, no matter how creatively you present it. Short of some of the extreme suggestions about forcibly limiting loot, there isn't a way for Bioware to "fix" an issue that stems from people's opinions.

 

Whichever side of the issue you fall on, griping about it really isn't going to fix it. Loot disputes are one of the oldest MMO issues and I'm not going to date myself any further. The simplest solution has been mentioned many times over. If you're leading a group, state the rule before you go in then boot the people that don't play nice. If you're not leading a group and/or don't want to deal with loot rules of a group, form your own that will let you roll on everything for any reason.

 

I really don't understand why we (a general we) resist communicating with each other so much. I mostly solo but when I need a group I haven''t had issues finding like minded people to group with. I know, it takes a little effort to get to know your other players but there are actually plenty of people that fall on both sides of the issue to go around.

[Kourage]

Dear total strangers,

 

 

I have a friend named Jimmy I quest with occasionally. I joined a Flashpoint the other night, but there was no room for my friend. At the end of the encounter, a nice piece of loot dropped. I couldn't use it, but I linked it to my buddy and he wanted it. It was a great upgrade for him. I rolled need and won.

 

People were yelling at me telling me I couldn't even use it. I said, no but my friend Jimmy can use it, and he quests with me all the time. They said Jimmy should run the Instance and roll for it himself. I replied that the group was full and Jimmy isn't so good at playing. he'd probably make the group worse if he took up a spot.

 

I'm going to keep rolling for my friend Jimmy, cause Jimmy is my buddy & he quests with me.

 

 

Sincerely;

 

Greedy Ninja Companion Looter.

 

 

 

 

 

 

P.S. I have 4 other friends to roll for as well.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Kourage

[Nessirin]

The fix is super super simple. It has been from the start. Yet Bioware still seemingly prefers to have players at each others throats instead of doing what needs to be done.

 

Simply make gear dropped in Heroics and Flashpoint player character only.

 

Companions can wear world dropped, vendor sold, or crafted gear.

 

No thanks, I've been gearing out my Ensign in tier1 &2 gear and she can probably take a fresh 50 1v1 by now.

 

 

Get some friends and run instances together,after all it is an MMO. Thinking that random pugs won't do stupid **** is silly.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Nessirin

[xrodney]

I truly don't understand the suggestions that adding varieties of "for companion" button is the solution, it's not. I'm not even going to restate my personal opinion on this whole issue but the gist of the problem is that people are upset that other people roll need. There are various reason they do it - for their companion, for wealth, because their mother's brother's uncle needs it and he always plays with them...

 

Regardless of the reason, people who roll need for reasons you don't agree with are still going to click the basic need button regardless of how many other optional buttons you present to them. There is no mechanics issue that is going to solve this problem, no matter how creatively you present it. Short of some of the extreme suggestions about forcibly limiting loot, there isn't a way for Bioware to "fix" an issue that stems from people's opinions.

 

Whichever side of the issue you fall on, griping about it really isn't going to fix it. Loot disputes are one of the oldest MMO issues and I'm not going to date myself any further. The simplest solution has been mentioned many times over. If you're leading a group, state the rule before you go in then boot the people that don't play nice. If you're not leading a group and/or don't want to deal with loot rules of a group, form your own that will let you roll on everything for any reason.

 

I really don't understand why we (a general we) resist communicating with each other so much. I mostly solo but when I need a group I haven''t had issues finding like minded people to group with. I know, it takes a little effort to get to know your other players but there are actually plenty of people that fall on both sides of the issue to go around.

 

You are wrong.

Most of people that would need gear for their companion do so only because everyone is using greed and thus it would most likely end up on vendor which is NOT FAIR.

[Kourage]

You are wrong.

Most of people that would need gear for their companion do so only because everyone is using greed and thus it would most likely end up on vendor which is NOT FAIR.

 

 

Most people roll greed even for their companions. Don't give me this "not fair" crap.

[Democratus]

You are wrong.

Most of people that would need gear for their companion do so only because everyone is using greed and thus it would most likely end up on vendor which is NOT FAIR.

 

What definition to you use for fair? Fair, for me, is when everyone has an equal chance at something - which is exactly what we have now.

[joriandrake]

Dear total strangers,

 

 

I have a friend named Jimmy I quest with occasionally. I joined a Flashpoint the other night, but there was no room for my friend. At the end of the encounter, a nice piece of loot dropped. I couldn't use it, but I linked it to my buddy and he wanted it. It was a great upgrade for him. I rolled need and won.

 

People were yelling at me telling me I couldn't even use it. I said, no but my friend Jimmy can use it, and he quests with me all the time. They said Jimmy should run the Instance and roll for it himself. I replied that the group was full and Jimmy isn't so good at playing. he'd probably make the group worse if he took up a spot.

 

I'm going to keep rolling for my friend Jimmy, cause Jimmy is my buddy & he quests with me.

 

 

Sincerely;

 

Greedy Ninja Companion Looter.

 

 

 

 

 

 

P.S. I have 4 other friends to roll for as well.

 

Just be careful with "bind on pickup" items, those you can not give away anyway.

[amnie]

You are wrong.

Most of people that would need gear for their companion do so only because everyone is using greed and thus it would most likely end up on vendor which is NOT FAIR.

 

I don't know, but I see people passing on items a lot, actually. and I do the same. I only roll greed for my companion - or if I .really. really. really. need some credits - for example when I died about 5 times because my group is crap. it hardly ever happens. what happens is that I roll the 'oh hey I can actually take this item apart with my crafting job' button

[Xenich]

The fix is super super simple. It has been from the start. Yet Bioware still seemingly prefers to have players at each others throats instead of doing what needs to be done.

 

Simply make gear dropped in Heroics and Flashpoint player character only.

 

Companions can wear world dropped, vendor sold, or crafted gear.

 

That would be horrible.

 

The problem is people. You can not change people. They will be as they will be. What you can do is be selective with those you group with and set requirements for those that group with you. This limits the problems here through a player agreed system.

 

Grouping with another person is a social venture that requires some means of ability to deal with both the good and bad of such a venture. You can not simply lock up people with rules because the people you may choose to group with are socially immature.

 

Now it would be reasonable to ask for better group loot tools with more options, but demanding the system be completely changed because of your poor experience with other people is like dealing with a crying baby by throwing it out the window, it is simply an overly dramatic and absurd solution.

[Donnicton]

Personally I don't see any reason to be a complete wang about it and break up a group over one item. You withhold your roll until you confirm that noone needs it, then ask whether anyone minds if you take it for your companion.

 

 

Derp! Problem solved, drama avoided! Boss drops that people greed roll for, most players don't even care about. But if you go around pouncing onto a piece of drop the moment the roll window opens like a soldier leaping onto a grenade regardless of whether anyone actually needs it for their own class, yeah you're going to look like a d-bag. It's just that simple regardless of attempted justification.

[Eegorr]

Personally I don't see any reason to be a complete wang about it and break up a group over one item. You withhold your roll until you confirm that noone needs it, then ask whether anyone minds if you take it for your companion.

 

 

Derp! Problem solved, drama avoided! Boss drops that people greed roll for, most players don't even care about. But if you go around pouncing onto a piece of drop the moment the roll window opens like a soldier leaping onto a grenade regardless of whether anyone actually needs it for their own class, yeah you're going to look like a d-bag. It's just that simple regardless of attempted justification.

 

Of course. The problem is what you do with people who are not so sensible as you just described. This is a trivial problem.... everyone just has to be courteous, polite, and use their common sense.... right....??? oh.... damn.....