SyrenaEkra Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Thank you. I see no problem with pvp stat geared people. They worked hard for it just as hard as i worked for my raid gear. Is it fair for me to 1-2 shot ppl pvping with my pve gear? Guess we need to remove pve gear aswell. "Worked Hard" yeah for gear that is now more expensive and harder for new PvPer's to get i see your "Hard Work" /sarcasm, Expertise is a stupit stat that needs to be abolished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SyrenaEkra Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 PVE'ers who don't want to put in the time for PVP come up with these threads in every game like this. Actually I have been PvP'n for weeks pretty much every day and have been extremely unlucky on champ bags as has my bf now in 50 only bracket PvP because we are undergeared compared to all those lucky people who got items instantly we pretty much get stomped every 2 seconds GG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrones Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) Well in this game it sure is more luck than anything else.Still, is it fair to 1 shot ppl with pve gear? Edited January 23, 2012 by Thrones Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wixxkruppel Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) PVE'ers who don't want to put in the time for PVP come up with these threads in every game like this. It doesn't take a lot of common sense to realize expertise is just a fail game design mechanic that's long outlived itself. Too bad for these forums, common sense is in short supply over the internet. You can't really even call yourself a pvp'er if you're actually defending a stat that let's you faceroll anyone who doesn't have it. You're more like a pvp carebear. Edited January 23, 2012 by wixxkruppel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrones Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 It doesn't take a lot of common sense to realize expertise is just a fail game design mechanic that's long outlived itself. Too bad for these forums, common sense is in short supply over the internet. Give me raid equal gear while doing pvp then , i dont mind. Oh and let it be hardmode gear aswell please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wixxkruppel Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) Give me raid equal gear while doing pvp then , i dont mind. Oh and let it be hardmode gear aswell please. Obviously. PvP and PvE gear needs to be interchangeable. The only difference should be how you acquire it. PvP needs other incentives, vanity bonuses and the like. The way to fix pvp gear system has been said countless times on these forums, but bioware insisted on blindly copy-pasting failed game mechanics from other games with zero original thought. Edited January 23, 2012 by wixxkruppel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrones Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Was rank14 in WoW back in vanilla, the gear i used back then was equal to the gear in the last Raid tier, took me 3 months to get it (playing 17 hours a day without premades :< ) Except my mainhand and offhand weapons which trash in the raid instance had better loot So i dont mind, aslong as pvp'ers has a chance to get gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogfatherxx Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Even though I benefit from it, with 540 expertise, I think that it should go. I would much rather see gear that was interchangable across PVP and PVE to allow people to more easily experience both. I do think that people should be rewarded for PVP though, but would rather those rewards be cosmetic ones (skins, speeders, titles, etc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anrix Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Obviously. PvP and PvE gear needs to be interchangeable. The only difference should be how you acquire it. PvP needs other incentives, vanity bonuses and the like. The way to fix pvp gear system has been said countless times on these forums, but bioware insisted on blindly copy-pasting failed game mechanics from other games with zero original thought. The bold is proof that none PvPers are making an argument to remove expertise. A majority of PvPers do not care about vanity items or worthless incentives. They just want gear that keeps them competitive and creates a gap that needs to be closed by newcomers. Someone that does not do a lot of raiding cannot and should not be expected to try their hand at high end raiding and be as successful as someone who has spent months at it. The time spent doing something should be equal to the reward. If you are new to PvP in this game that means you have not spent anytime doing it and should not be rewarded for it. It is the same system PvE follows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwal Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Even though I benefit from it, with 540 expertise, I think that it should go. I would much rather see gear that was interchangable across PVP and PVE to allow people to more easily experience both. I do think that people should be rewarded for PVP though, but would rather those rewards be cosmetic ones (skins, speeders, titles, etc). ^^ This. Look this isnt just PvE'ers looking for an easy ride, this is about making every aspect of the game accessible to players of different styles while offering progression that doesnt impact balance. PvE gear should never be superior in PvP but an unlucky/under geared/ PvE'er should be able to jump into PvP without a ridiculous disadvantage or they will quit the game. MMO's need more players overall to succeed not a hardcore minority niche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rackiera Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Why are people still argueing , reposted .. @ Teyng, thanks for the info below ; Total stats for Battlemaster Eliminator set Aim: 858Endurance: 910Crit: 206Accuracy: 306Power: 187Surge: 102Expertise: 602 Total stats for Rakata Eliminator set Aim: 1059 19% higher than BMEndurance: 1157 22% higher than BMCrit: 206Accuracy: 306Power: 187Surge: 102 So without expertise people in PVE gear would have a 19% higher main stat and more end, thats why expertise is in, without it PVE gear would dominate WZ. Its your choice what to wear, I see people in PVE gear and PVP gear to get a mix of both options. They seem to get best overall results as well. Everyone can choose what they wear, what they do, so if u want to PVE your gear is fine as it is, if you want to PVP its fine as it is ... Why should I have to do PVE to be competitive in PVP ? , without expertise I have no choice unless all sets are exactly the same. This should close this issue once and for all, PVE & PVP Gear can both do fine , I have not seen any rational argument that could disagree with the above, so whats the problem ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwal Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 The bold is proof that none PvPers are making an argument to remove expertise. A majority of PvPers do not care about vanity items or worthless incentives. They just want gear that keeps them competitive and creates a gap that needs to be closed by newcomers. Someone that does not do a lot of raiding cannot and should not be expected to try their hand at high end raiding and be as successful as someone who has spent months at it. The time spent doing something should be equal to the reward. If you are new to PvP in this game that means you have not spent anytime doing it and should not be rewarded for it. It is the same system PvE follows. I am a PvPer I've done 7 levels on one character straight without touching a quest. I think expertise is fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SyrenaEkra Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) Why are people still argueing , reposted .. @ Teyng, thanks for the info below ; Total stats for Battlemaster Eliminator set Aim: 858 Endurance: 910 Crit: 206 Accuracy: 306 Power: 187 Surge: 102 Expertise: 602 Total stats for Rakata Eliminator set Aim: 1059 19% higher than BM Endurance: 1157 22% higher than BM Crit: 206 Accuracy: 306 Power: 187 Surge: 102 So without expertise people in PVE gear would have a 19% higher main stat and more end, thats why expertise is in, without it PVE gear would dominate WZ. Its your choice what to wear, I see people in PVE gear and PVP gear to get a mix of both options. They seem to get best overall results as well. Everyone can choose what they wear, what they do, so if u want to PVE your gear is fine as it is, if you want to PVP its fine as it is ... Why should I have to do PVE to be competitive in PVP ? , without expertise I have no choice unless all sets are exactly the same. This should close this issue once and for all, PVE & PVP Gear can both do fine , I have not seen any rational argument that could disagree with the above, so whats the problem ? Good set up there but there is a fatal flaw in your post Total stats for Battlemaster Eliminator set Aim: 858 Endurance: 910 Crit: 206 Accuracy: 306 Power: 187 Surge: 102 Expertise: 602 = 12-13% stat increase to Damage, Damage reduction & Healing. Total stats for Rakata Eliminator set Aim: 1059 19% higher than BM Endurance: 1157 22% higher than BM Crit: 206 Accuracy: 306 Power: 187 Surge: 102 I highlighted it you that aim and endurance are higher yes ok fair enough but PvE gear has NO expertise at all which reduces damage taken by 12% and increases your damage by a further 12% and thats a 12% across the board for PvP Stats. Imo Expertise should go PvE gear should have Endurance lowered where PvP should have it highered. Edited January 23, 2012 by SyrenaEkra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XParoleX Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 No it stays! I didn't get my butt whipped for a week straight to have my expertise taken away from me! You become num to losing when trying to grind for your battlemaster gear. You just need to suck it up and get your PVP gear. It's the only thing that counters Raid gear which I personally HATE raiding. You complaining about Expertise is like a PvPer complaing about being forced to go through Raids in order to get gear. Sorry! This^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandlero Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Actually, the issue is not the Expertise stat - you're mistaken on a bit OP. Those of us at higher levels that you're having problems with - we have a lot of Accuracy. My main has 125% accuracy as a sniper - remember that for each % over 100 you go, you reduce the defense stats of the enemy you're attacking. That means when I shoot you, 25% less armor, 25% less dodge/parry, etc. The 10-15% extra damage BMs are getting via Expertise often only amounts to at most an extra 500-1000 damage in the extreme situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunzwei Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Classes/Specs with high burst damage, high burst healing, and passive mitigation are going to benefit far more from a stat that is % based like expertise. The misconception is that if I have 10% expertise and you have 10% expertise that they cancel each other out. They do not. This is same reason World of Warcraft had to change how resilience was applied and what exactly it did on three occasions. - What further exacerbates the problem is when you have classes/specs with Armor Penetration or a lot of Internal/Elemental damage (ignores armor). These have the ability to reduce the effectiveness of how your expertise works while increasing the effectiveness of their own expertise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeetorDaal Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Thank you. I see no problem with pvp stat geared people. They worked hard for it just as hard as i worked for my raid gear. Is it fair for me to 1-2 shot ppl pvping with my pve gear? Guess we need to remove pve gear aswell. Thank you reasonable, logical, wise man! PvPers and PvErs can coexist. You have to put yourself in the other sides situation before saying silly things like the OP.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrahero Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 The bold is proof that none PvPers are making an argument to remove expertise. A majority of PvPers do not care about vanity items or worthless incentives. They just want gear that keeps them competitive and creates a gap that needs to be closed by newcomers. In other words, you want to dominate anyone who hasnt spend as much time or had as much luck as you in pvp. Not because you are more experienced or a better player, but simply and purely because you outgear them. Thats not Player vs Player, thats Gear vs Gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrones Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 In other words, you want to dominate anyone who hasnt spend as much time or had as much luck as you in pvp. Not because you are more experienced or a better player, but simply and purely because you outgear them. Thats not Player vs Player, thats Gear vs Gear. That's the exact same thing as pve players 2 shotting a player who just got into the game. Or someone who's guild isnt as good as the heroic guilds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDutch Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 A majority of PvPers do not care about vanity items or worthless incentives. They just want gear that keeps them competitive and creates a gap that needs to be closed by newcomers. Creating gaps does not encourage PvP, it discourages it. A majority of what I would call "PvPers" care about having more faces to melt and not circular gear grinds. Talking about the necessary evils of progression and how to best integrate PvP/PvE gear systems together is one thing. Wanting to deliberately create gaps where veterans get an additional edge just for the sake of hazing noobs is short-sighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwal Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 That's the exact same thing as pve players 2 shotting a player who just got into the game. Or someone who's guild isnt as good as the heroic guilds. That counter argument is flawed because it is not what anyone is asking for. I agree PvE gear should never ever be better in PvP but that doesn't mean PvP gear has to be more important than player skill and teamwork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrones Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 That counter argument is flawed because it is not what anyone is asking for. I agree PvE gear should never ever be better in PvP but that doesn't mean PvP gear has to be more important than player skill and teamwork. Where did i ever say it should be more important? What im saying is that if we remove the expertise stat you'd still get people destroying those without gear but now even with a bigger gap cause first you'd need a guild, also you'd need a guild as succesful as the top guilds seeing as HM gear > Normal Gear. I dont mind removing the exp stat, give me equal HM gear then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crawelc Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 That is a great way to put it, if they took out pvp stat and made pvp gear=pve gear at high end you would have just as many people qqing about "I have to run HM's with a group to get my gear and all they have to do is que wzs" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwal Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Where did i ever say it should be more important? What im saying is that if we remove the expertise stat you'd still get people destroying those without gear but now even with a bigger gap cause first you'd need a guild, also you'd need a guild as succesful as the top guilds seeing as HM gear > Normal Gear. I dont mind removing the exp stat, give me equal HM gear then. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=209799 Solved in this thread. Please read it take a minute to the about it then decide wether you want a niche pvp game or a fun game with a healthy playerbase and future investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogfatherxx Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I will say it again from my experience as a 540 expertise geared player. Anyone who says that expertise gear does not give them a SIGNIFICANT advantage in PVP over someone without it is LYING. Do all the comparisons you want, but that is the fact. Now, the only question that remains is should people have the advantage for investing their time? Some will say that they should since the put so much time into earning their gear. Some will say no and argue that all PVP matches should be based on skill and skill alone. At the end of the day, I don't think that I need the expertise advantage to do well, but I certainly will not unequip my gear when there are other people wearing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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