"Addons are stupid and WoW is easy."

[MetallicaRulez]

I will summarize what you want: An easy "tell-you-what-to-do" addon that tells you exactly when you hit button x or y. That is not a challenge, and spare me, WoW heroic endgame is not difficult.

 

No one is asking for anything even remotely close to that. We want UI customization and damage meters. Neither of those is even remotely close to what you're describing. Mods like that haven't existed in any MMO in a long time, because it's basically just botting.

 

Also, WoW end-game is significantly less difficult than many people think. It's still harder than any other MMO, but it relies more on finding good players than it does on actual difficult encounters. Every raid has those 3-5 players that they have to carry, even US Top 100 guilds (like mine). Finding good players is VERY difficult these days, since Blizzard has dumbed the game down for the lowest common denominator.

[Karast]

Addons gut encounters. You do not need to pay attention or learn a boss fight when an addon spams your screen right before a boss does a special move, or tells you when you have a buff or debuff, or instructs you when to use an ability.

 

They turn what would have been a somewhat hard or challenging fight into a loot farm, and its rather sad that their are entire guilds that are wholly dependent on them because they have never learned how to do the encounters without them. They have to wait for someone to make an addon that tells them what to do, how to do the boss fight, rather than figuring it out themselves.

 

I simply cannot stand addons that play the game for people. UI customization is fine, gearing and bag sorting addons are fine, but any addon that pretty much plays the game for someone is crap, and after the last few MMO's I've played and what I have seen addons due to the skill of the community in general, I'm fine going with out them.

[MetallicaRulez]

Healbot's name is misleading, for example: it doesn't actually make healing robotic. I believe -- I may be wrong; this was before my time -- it did at one point suggest spells to use, or targets for healing, or something of that sort, but Blizzard put an end to that.

 

At one point in early vanilla, Healbot did pretty much what it sounds like it does. It selected your spell, and automatically cancelled the cast if the target got healed before the spell landed, preventing wasted mana on overhealing. It was completely ridiculous and Blizzard broke it, as they should have.

 

These days in WoW, there are no addons that automate anything. They don't select your spells, they don't play the game for you, and there's strict limitations on what addons actually CAN do.

 

People on these forums act like the pro-addon group just wants to run bot programs to play the game for us. I assure you that is not the case.

[choppefett]

I prefer to use tools that allow me to improve and play at the top of my abilities.

 

Sure add-ons force gamemakers to create more difficult encounters. Why is that a problem. I'd rather have challenging content while I'm playing well than be handicapped and tee off from the women's tee box, no offense ladies!

 

Those tools may improve your performance, but they certainly don't improve your game. They make the game easier for you to play by telling you what you should be doing.

 

Anyone saying that "baddies" are the ones who don't want addons are in fact the "baddies" themselves because it seems they are the ones who NEED tools to improve. I prefer to work it out myself thanks.

 

You're missing the point about more addons requiring more challenging content. Any handicap you feel is your own fault and asking an addon to fix it proves it.

 

The problem is that the addons have done all the work for you, not that you are a better player. With no addons, more room for error can be put in. This makes fights easier for GOOD players who can work it out for themselves WITHOUT ADDONS. It make fights harder for players who need addons and can't work the game out for themselves but it also makes it more accessible because the benchmark to succeed is lower.

[socoamaretto]

I don't want a DBM, I just want a recount.

 

There is absolutely nothing about recount making the game easier, it just shows who sucks.

[dexvx]

Where's your heroic -anything- kill?

 

WoWs heroic endgame is still one of the most difficult challenges in the gaming world. SWTOR is pathetic in comparison. However, in terms of questing and solo play, SWTOR is much more challenging and I feel you really learn how to play your class to it's SOLO potential through doing the difficult elite story quests.

 

If you say because they harass you for being bad by linking meters, I have bad news for you. You are actually bad, and someone pointed it out to you after carrying you through that content.

 

Damage meters are bad, not because of the information they provide, but because 99% of WoW's raiding population doesn't understand how to interpret the results. For the most part, people remain fixated in on one number - your damage/effective healing done. While important, in most complex fights, that doesn't really tell you the whole story. There are ways to inflate your numbers that can actually be detrimental to a raid. It doesn't mean someone who did 1M damage can be better than the same class doing 3M damage, but someone doing 2.75M damage *may* certainly do "more" for a raid than the same class pulling 3M damage.

 

I certainly don't want damage meters in swtor. If you want to analyze your raid's damage and min/max it, a full combat log and parser (like World of Logs) will more than suffice.

[choppefett]

I don't want a DBM, I just want a recount.

 

There is absolutely nothing about recount making the game easier, it just shows who sucks.

 

You don't know what recount is do you. It's a combat log and if you don't know how a combat log makes the game easier to play then ask someone on the WoW forums.

 

The only players who "suck" are those who can't read tooltips and character sheets. You don't need recount to spot them.

[socoamaretto]

You don't know what recount is do you. It's a combat log and if you don't know how a combat log makes the game easier to play then ask someone on the WoW forums.

 

The only players who "suck" are those who can't read tooltips and character sheets. You don't need recount to spot them.

 

Oh so you're in a 16man raid and you constantly hit enrage and wipe. Everyone is overgeared. What do you do? Replace them all? Don't be dumb.

[DameonLG]

Believe it or not, some people actually enjoy min/maxing their characters. Also, you use the term "casual" instead of "bad". Shame on you.

 

Then, and don't think I'm trolling, this game might not be for you.

[fireflyking]

Pretty much. Though, there really is no logical argument against the use of addons, or even the proper tools we need to play an mmo competitively. Saying "i got bullied because i suck at dps and stand in fire," is not a valid argument. That is a problem with the players, not the tool.

 

In an mmo, you have a choice of who you play with. If you don't like someone, do not play with them. I have been playing with the same group of friends for nearly 5 years now, the core of us remaining the same as some come and go. You should learn to make friends, it's pretty cool.

 

As I stated on page 14;

 

I don't feel that "addons are stupid" as I used a plethora of them in WoW. If you didn't use them in WoW then it was more difficult to keep up with the other healers. It's very difficult to heal on par with someone using mouse over macros if you aren't as well as they have a distinct advantage.

 

That being said, I do agree that they should not implement addons in this game.

 

I'm not saying that I wouldn't use them if they were there, because I would. However if they are there then you're giving a disadvantage to anyone who doesn't use them. This includes people who don't like them, or people who are in no way tech savvy and don't know how to download or set them up. Therefore those people who don't want to use them are being forced to either use them or be sub-par of those who do choose to use them.

 

How many of you support steroid use in sports such as baseball? Do you think that if a player wants to use steroids they should be allowed to do so? I'm going to guess that most people are going to answer no to that question on the same principle of what I just said about addons. If players were allowed to use steroids then anyone not using them would be at a disadvantage and would feel obligated to use them anyway even if they don't want to.

 

I'm aware that addons aren't the same thing as steroids and I'm not saying that it's exactly the same situation. I'm just using it as an example because it does have distinct similarities.

 

Hopefully some of you at least will see that this makes sense and understand why "don't like them don't use them" is not a valid argument and why some of us feel that addons should not be implemented. I cringe every time I see someone use that followed by "nuff said" as their argument.

 

I used a lot of addons in WoW. Everything from improved raid frames to UI customization to an addon as simple as a single button to sell every gray quality item in my bags. I enjoyed the convenience they provide. As far as their being no logical argument against addons, I don't think that's true. If addons were in this game I would use them. I would definitely prefer to have my UI customized how I like it and have my power auras tell me when my effects proc and have my mik's scrolling battle text conveniently place my combat numbers around me in an easy to see and read way. However I still don't feel that implementing user made addons is the best or right move by Bioware.

 

I play with the same friends as well, some from real life, some I met in vanilla WoW, and a few in each expansion since then. We all migrate from game to game together (LotRO, Aion, Rift, LoL, TOR) always sticking together. (I'm not sure how that applied to anything I said however or if that part was even directed at me.) Even with those friends and guild mates there are times I play alone, instance alone, or even on occasion pug a raid alone.

 

It's nice to see who's doing good DPS and who isn't, though when most people look at this all they see are numbers. They don't take into account that the highest DPS may not even be as good a player as the guy six places down because that guy six places down is taking time to place debuffs to increase the damage for his party members, use CC, or even cleanse buffs from friendly party members where as that top DPSer may be neglecting those duties.

 

Too many people look at these things in black and white, all addons provide an easier way to do things than without them. They also provide a crutch for those things that are still possible without them. Deadly Boss Mods gives you every detail of a fight as it's happening rather than paying attention and knowing/learning the fight for yourself. Getting a raid warning to get out of the AoE boss ability you're standing in rather than not having tunnel vision and getting out of it on your own is a good example. Addons allow more casual less skilled players to do things that they couldn't normally do on their own or couldn't normally do without more practice. They provide shortcuts that make life in-game easier all around, this is a good thing and a bad thing at the same time.

 

I hope that they do not allow addons in the way World of Warcraft does. However I think it would be a good idea for them to, over time (as this isn't a pressing matter by any means), implement at least the most basic less game play altering addons as regular functions in the game. UI customization for example, a single button for selling all gray items, possibly even a threat or DPS meter type function I could understand. Whatever they add in I hope that it applies to everyone and isn't something the players have to download externally from the game and install or set up themselves. This way all players have them and are on an even playing field no matter what.

[Raeln]

Oh so you're in a 16man raid and you constantly hit enrage and wipe. Everyone is overgeared. What do you do? Replace them all? Don't be dumb.

 

Without Recount, developers set the enrage timer at 6 minutes - giving leeway for less efficient specs and rotations.

 

With Recount, developers end up setting the enrage timer at 4 minutes to preserve the challenge because a small number of players have spreadsheeted their combat rotation and spec down to a science and are running at 99% efficiency. While this may seem awesome to you, this essentially means that all players that want to beat the content now have to work/invest more into their character to achieve the new minimum bar for efficiency, whether they want to deal with addons or not - they will now have to. If they do not - they will be labeled a noob and left on the sideline.

 

At that point - it's no longer a game of just having fun while killing internet krayt dragons, it's a battle of numbers on an excel spreadsheet. I don't know about you, but I don't play MMOs to be an accountant or mathematical analyst. I play for fun. Damage meters are not required to have fun in a MMORPG.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Raeln

[dmanlong]

Without Recount, developers set the enrage timer at 6 minutes - giving leeway for less efficient specs and rotations.

 

With Recount, developers end up setting the enrage timer at 4 minutes to preserve the challenge because a small number of players have spreadsheeted their combat rotation and spec down to a science and are running at 99% efficiency. While this may seem awesome to you, this essentially means that all players that want to beat the content now have to work/invest more into their character to achieve the new minimum bar for efficiency, whether they want to deal with addons or not - they will now have to. If they do not - they will be labeled a noob and left on the sideline.

 

At that point - it's no longer a game of just having fun while killing internet krayt dragons, it's a battle of numbers on an excel spreadsheet. I don't know about you, but I don't play MMOs to be an accountant or mathematical analyst. I play for fun. Damage meters are not required to have fun in a MMORPG.

 

Normal modes are for casual fun and not min/maxing your character. What you are saying is that you do not want to do any research and invest any time into perfecting your character - which a lot of players like to do. This is why difficulty levels exist.

 

Hard enrage timers that are tightly tuned do not exist in normal modes for this very reason. If you are complaining that the developers supertune hard mode bosses because we have the ability to see maximum rotations with combat logs, then you are doing it wrong if you don't spreadsheet your character.

 

Play how you want, but don't be angry if all the content is not dumbed down and you can't beat it with your laissez-faire approach to gaming.

Edited January 6, 2012 by dmanlong

[Hairless]

Without Recount, developers set the enrage timer at 6 minutes - giving leeway for less efficient specs and rotations.

 

With Recount, developers end up setting the enrage timer at 4 minutes to preserve the challenge because a small number of players have spreadsheeted their combat rotation and spec down to a science and are running at 99% efficiency. While this may seem awesome to you, this essentially means that all players that want to beat the content now have to work/invest more into their character to achieve the new minimum bar for efficiency, whether they want to deal with addons or not - they will now have to. If they do not - they will be labeled a noob and left on the sideline.

 

At that point - it's no longer a game of just having fun while killing internet krayt dragons, it's a battle of numbers on an excel spreadsheet. I don't know about you, but I don't play MMOs to be an accountant or mathematical analyst. I play for fun. Damage meters are not required to have fun in a MMORPG.

 

I play for fun. Damage meters are not required to have fun in a MMORPG.

 

Actually it is required. There is no fun when my group is constantly wiping due to some people doing, for example, 200 dps when they should be doing minimum 400.

Hell, it's been my experience that those terrible players are usually also the first ones to give up and drop the raid after a couple of wipes.

 

Even without combat logging support, people will eventually figure out the best spec and rotation. It will just be inconvenient. Even though the numbers aren't handed to us through a combat log, this is still a number game. There are ALWAYS going to be the best spec and rotation. Not having combat log and addons will not prevent this.

 

It's not even like you guys have to do the research. The theorycrafters do all the math and figure out the rotation.

So how does it force players like you to invest/work more?

It's not even like following a rotation is hard.

All you do is take the rotation SOMEONE ELSE FIGURED OUT. It doesn't force you to do any "accounting" or "mathematical analysis" like you claim.

 

What is so not fun about using the optimal rotation vs your "fun rotation"?

Are you trying to claim that you have more fun when you get to randomly faceroll whatever abilities you like to watch your character do?

Then you are better off playing a children's game or a single player game.

 

This is MMORPG, obviously. Your performance directly affects the 3, 7, or 15 others in your group/raid. Stop being selfish.

[dmanlong]

you are missing what he/she is saying.

 

He/she wants the developer to not put in damage meters but also make the encounters very easy, so everyone can win.

 

Trophies and gold stars for everyone. We all win and live in happy fun land.

Edited January 6, 2012 by dmanlong

[Hairless]

you are missing what he/she is saying.

 

He/she wants the developer to not put in damage meters but also make the encounters very easy, so everyone can win.

 

Trophies and gold stars for everyone. We all win and live in happy fun land.

 

 

No challenge = no fun

 

Might as well go play hello kitty island adventure.

[Raeln]

Normal modes are for casual fun and not min/maxing your character. What you are saying is that you do not want to do any research and invest any time into perfecting your character - which a lot of players like to do. This is why difficulty levels exist.

 

That is not what I said at all. I said the developers will have to change how they balance encounters to retain the desired difficulty level because the damage meter exists.

 

Hard enrage timers that are tightly tuned do not exist in normal modes for this very reason. If you are complaining that the developers supertune hard mode bosses because we have the ability to see maximum rotations with combat logs, then you are doing it wrong if you don't spreadsheet your character.

 

They existed in WoW's normal modes. They will, at some point, exist in TOR's normal modes. Obviously, they will not be as stringent as hardmode timers but nonetheless, eventually they will be there because for some reason, it's not acceptable to be able to take a raid full of healers, and still be able to kill the same boss in 2 hours rather than 8 minutes.

 

Play how you want, but don't be angry if all the content is not dumbed down and you can't beat it with your laissez-faire approach to gaming.

 

I'm not angry. I just seen with my own eyes what damage meters did to WoW's playerbase over the course of the 7 years I played that game. I do not want the same for TOR. In fact, I'm perfectly happy that there is no combat log - I have thoroughly enjoyed the last few weeks of not hearing anything about "how much DPS so and so is doing" and not seeing meters linked to party/guild every 5 minutes because someone set a new crit record.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Raeln

[Raeln]

Actually it is required. There is no fun when my group is constantly wiping due to some people doing, for example, 200 dps when they should be doing minimum 400.

Hell, it's been my experience that those terrible players are usually also the first ones to give up and drop the raid after a couple of wipes.

 

Yet somehow content was completed in EQ1 and early WoW without damage meters.

 

I've heard Eternity Vault has been cleared without damage meters. Hrmm, if they were required, then how is it that the content has already been cleared by anyone?

 

Even without combat logging support, people will eventually figure out the best spec and rotation. It will just be inconvenient. Even though the numbers aren't handed to us through a combat log, this is still a number game. There are ALWAYS going to be the best spec and rotation. Not having combat log and addons will not prevent this.

 

Yes, of course someone will figure out the best spec eventually. This is a given. I think my Telekinetic Sage spec is pretty close to that mark already and I feel that my rotation is pretty spot on. You aren't talking to a noob that just created their first MMORPG account 3 weeks ago. I was a hardcore raider in EQ1 and WoW for years - I raided more hours per week in EQ1 than most people worked at their full time job, while I still worked a full time job. I raided to the point where it was unhealthy and actually strained my marriage. It was a progression guild that would make most raiding guilds on WoW look like a weekend warrior guild.

 

There were no addons used. I'm sure a couple of the 100 member guild (72 man raiding) used combat parsers but no one said anything about them, save maybe once when one of our rogues get a weapon upgrade.

 

The point is, the content still went down. It was still beaten and by far less hardcore than my guild too.

 

It's not even like you guys have to do the research. The theorycrafters do all the math and figure out the rotation.

So how does it force players like you to invest/work more?

It's not even like following a rotation is hard.

All you do is take the rotation SOMEONE ELSE FIGURED OUT. It doesn't force you to do any "accounting" or "mathematical analysis" like you claim.

 

What is so not fun about using the optimal rotation vs your "fun rotation"?

Are you trying to claim that you have more fun when you get to randomly faceroll whatever abilities you like to watch your character do?

Then you are better off playing a children's game or a single player game.

 

This is MMORPG, obviously. Your performance directly affects the 3, 7, or 15 others in your group/raid. Stop being selfish.

 

What is so bad about a game that is fun and doesn't turn into a war of numbers on a spreadsheet?

 

At what point did multiplayer gaming forget the thrill of just playing together with some online buds and become some type of epeen competition at who can pimp out their UI the most and make the numbers on their spreadsheet bigger than the numbers on the other guy's spreadsheet?

 

I can tell you this - mark my words. You want damage meters? You'll probably get them. At the same time, you'll get an end game that assumes you and everyone else will have to use them because the devs will be forced to design content in a manner that assumes they are being used - else, the loud minority of hardcore gamers will cry it's too easy. That will be the day that the fun will begin to disappear and it'll be just like WoW - people will be more interested in the numbers you can churn than who you are or how fun you are to be around.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Raeln

[Gremlong]

Since when did mmo's become a job?

 

Addons such as damage meters, threat meters, etc ruin the fun. They make the game feel more like a job than a fun game at that point.

 

I used to play wow and remember looking at various guilds that you have to fill out an application for.

 

When it feels like you have to fill out a resume to play a game with people, that’s when it’s no longer a game.

 

These elite jack-wagons need to sit back and realize this is a game meant for fun. When you require a person to have X addons, have X amount of experience and be expected to hit X numbers when they dps or heal, the game is now a job.

 

I have a full time job that makes me deal with all the above mentioned things. I dont want the same feeling when I sit down and play my, what is suppose to be, relaxing video game.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Mokallaz]

Yet somehow content was completed in EQ1 and early WoW without damage meters.

 

I've heard Eternity Vault has been cleared without damage meters. Hrmm, if they were required, then how is it that the content has already been cleared by anyone?

 

We had damage meters from day one in early WoW raiding, we also had decursive, CTraid. Also, before BWL we had a threat meter.

 

 

Yes, of course someone will figure out the best spec eventually. This is a given. I think my Telekinetic Sage spec is pretty close to that mark already and I feel that my rotation is pretty spot on. You aren't talking to a noob that just created their first MMORPG account 3 weeks ago. I was a hardcore raider in EQ1 and WoW for years - I raided more hours per week in EQ1 than most people worked at their full time job, while I still worked a full time job. I raided to the point where it was unhealthy and actually strained my marriage. It was a progression guild that would make most raiding guilds on WoW look like a weekend warrior guild.

 

 

You have no idea how your spec compares to others unless it is drastically different (like the difference between a Rage Jugg and a Veng Jugg is obvious), there isn't even a combat log yet.

 

 

There were no addons used. I'm sure a couple of the 100 member guild (72 man raiding) used combat parsers but no one said anything about them, save maybe once when one of our rogues get a weapon upgrade.

 

The point is, the content still went down. It was still beaten and by far less hardcore than my guild too.

 

Raiding in EQ was really basic and just required a ton of people, just because it was a pain in the *** doesn't mean it was actually challenging content. If I am wrong, please link a youtube video of an EQ raid that was harder than Muru. Good luck with that.

 

 

What is so bad about a game that is fun and doesn't turn into a war of numbers on a spreadsheet?

 

At what point did multiplayer gaming forget the thrill of just playing together with some online buds and become some type of epeen competition at who can pimp out their UI the most and make the numbers on their spreadsheet bigger than the numbers on the other guy's spreadsheet?

 

I can tell you this - mark my words. You want damage meters? You'll probably get them. At the same time, you'll get an end game that assumes you and everyone else will have to use them because the devs will be forced to design content in a manner that assumes they are being used - else, the loud minority of hardcore gamers will cry it's too easy. That will be the day that the fun will begin to disappear and it'll be just like WoW - people will be more interested in the numbers you can churn than who you are or how fun you are to be around.

 

 

The game is already based on a spreadsheet and numbers (an example http://sithwarrior.com/forums/Thread-Immortal-Defense-Compendium-A-Tank-s-Guide-To-The-Galaxy ), everything in MMOs (and RPGs for that matter, including tabletop) is number based, there is nothing that will change that. So the people that like to theorycraft will run the numbers until a best way is apparent.

 

To be honest, I just want a combat log, simple macros (mouseovers included), and a custom UI. Having to stare at your bars, buffs and debuffs takes away from the flashpoints/ops, a HUD and combat aura UI mod would be fantastic.

 

I really like the MM part of the MMORPG, I like tackling the hardest content with a group of like minded people. Raiding is fun, and it is more fun when you have the tools to objectively improve in order to down a really challenging encounter. The numbers are there, the game is processing them already, give me access to them so I can be the best I can.

[-Kelerak-]

addons are lamme, just play the game like he is and dont be lazy

[Numerii]

If your group is wiping repeatedly on a boss enrage timer, or when multiple healers are going OOM, long before the boss' HP goes low, you start to wonder why.

 

So let's picture that damage meters are never implemented, due to combat log either never being accessible, or not parse-able. The raid will be sitting around wondering why this isn't working, with no clues as to why.

 

WITH meters, you can clearly see who is not pulling their weight. It might even be as simple as the player not having trained X skill or doing the wrong rotation and/or using the wrong abilities. Or it could be, the reason your healers are OOMing, is because one or more of the healers is AFK half the fight.

 

Without addons, how is your raid supposed to determine any of these things?

 

God this. Without a good damage meter we're going to see a lot of "good ol' boy" raiders who occupy a slot based on being friends or screaming and pointing at everyone else as being the problem.

 

Vanilla WoW was like this and then suddenly a lot of people became extremely embarrassed when the day came that someone was able to finally link some real numbers.

[Raeln]

We had damage meters from day one in early WoW raiding, we also had decursive, CTraid. Also, before BWL we had a threat meter.

 

Negative. CT_RaidAssist came out early because WoW originally had no raid frames. Imagine the QQ if TOR had launched with no Operation Frames whatsoever. Think about that for a second.

 

Decursive and damage meters came out during Molten Core but did not become mainstream until much later. I don't think the threat meter came along (or got popular) until mid-BC.

 

You have no idea how your spec compares to others unless it is drastically different (like the difference between a Rage Jugg and a Veng Jugg is obvious), there isn't even a combat log yet.

 

You don't need a combat log to figure out a rotation. Your problem is that you want to see your character's output in spreadsheet form. That type of analysis only became available during WoW and in my opinion, should remain in WoW.

 

Do you have to have a damage meter to complete single player games too? Did you need a damage meter to complete Skyrim or Arkham City? How about Saints Row 3, did you need a damage meter to know you was doing enough DPS in that game?

 

Sounds ludicrous, doesn't it? About the same as someone stating that PvE raiding in a MMO requires a damage meter does to me.

 

Raiding in EQ was really basic and just required a ton of people, just because it was a pain in the *** doesn't mean it was actually challenging content. If I am wrong, please link a youtube video of an EQ raid that was harder than Muru. Good luck with that.

 

Ever kill Rathe Council?

 

The game is already based on a spreadsheet and numbers (an example http://sithwarrior.com/forums/Thread-Immortal-Defense-Compendium-A-Tank-s-Guide-To-The-Galaxy ), everything in MMOs (and RPGs for that matter, including tabletop) is number based, there is nothing that will change that. So the people that like to theorycraft will run the numbers until a best way is apparent.

 

To be honest, I just want a combat log, simple macros (mouseovers included), and a custom UI. Having to stare at your bars, buffs and debuffs takes away from the flashpoints/ops, a HUD and combat aura UI mod would be fantastic.

 

I really like the MM part of the MMORPG, I like tackling the hardest content with a group of like minded people. Raiding is fun, and it is more fun when you have the tools to objectively improve in order to down a really challenging encounter. The numbers are there, the game is processing them already, give me access to them so I can be the best I can.

 

I want mouseovers, better visibility for my own buffs and debuffs (hopefully a power aura type display) and the ability to roll my 4 power up buffs (Force Potency, alacrity, Power stim) into one button.

 

I won't care if we get a combat log though I'd rather it not be given the capability to write to a file. I do not want any other addon or damage meter. I want the game to stay pure so the developers can focus more on making fun encounters rather than have to focus on whether or not they are tuned for 95% combat efficiency. I watched as WoW changed to a game that was obviously developed around assuming certain addons were present - I don't want to see the same happen to TOR.

Edited January 6, 2012 by Raeln

[Raeln]

God this. Without a good damage meter we're going to see a lot of "good ol' boy" raiders who occupy a slot based on being friends or screaming and pointing at everyone else as being the problem.

 

Vanilla WoW was like this and then suddenly a lot of people became extremely embarrassed when the day came that someone was able to finally link some real numbers.

 

Just what do you think raid assistants are supposed to be doing? Those positions (usually officers) are supposed to be doing more than just merely inviting to the guild or kicking people for grins.

 

How about class leaders? They should be watching those playing the same classes and helping them learn their correct rotations and make sure they know what needs interrupted when and where.

 

How about playing with your members in all forms of content to observe their general knowledge of their class?

 

How about utilizing guild forums to outline what each class/role should do to counter each move the boss has? Screenshots and drawings can be made and posted as visual aides.

 

I think an alarming amount of people want to just hinge all that on DBM and Recount - then they cry when the content turns out to be "too easy".

[kemmadar]

no trolling...read as much as one person can read about WoW on a Star Wars forum...this has me concerned.

 

people need to realize that this is not WoW, and if you wish it to be WoW then go back to WoW...bioware will give us what they see fit to keep the game as pure in a mmo sense as they see fit. asking for add-on capabilities is a self admission to the fact that you are mentally incapable of playing a game without having someone hold your hand and tell you what you need to do.

 

addons are indeed stupid, and so is WoW...so take the 'i want this and that added so it's more like WoW' attitude and go back to the stupid game. No one is entitled to having everything they want, and throwing a fit if they don't get it just shows immaturity, next thing you will be complaining about the difficulty of the encounters directly instead of complaining about how you don't have 'idiot' meter telling you what to do all the time.

[Mokallaz]

Ever kill Rathe Council?

 

 

Wow, looks rough! That guy had to cast something every 10 seconds or so!

 

I am sure it was hard and innovative for its time, but it isn't anywhere near as hard as current raiding content.