"Addons are stupid and WoW is easy."

[AlbertXP]

Damage meter: Necessary.

100 Addons that tell you everything from when the boss blinks to when he farts: NO.

[Daecollo]

WoW Encounters are weak compared to Everquest 1/2 Encounters, sorry.

 

Your raids didn't last 30-50 hours and didn't have 75+ people.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Daecollo

[Draccman]

Ventured into hardmode eternity vault today, killed the first 4, Soa seemed a bit buggy with those lightning balls going invisible and still killing people, but whatever.

 

I dont find raiding in swtor to be enjoyable. It is hard to min/max without damage meters or even proper DOT TIMERS. As a dot class it is *********** miserable to try and manage my dots without timers, especially when I have 2 other madness spec people in the raid, I have no way to tell which dots are mine.

 

The raids are not challenging. They are SIMPLE mechanics with tight enrage timers. Soa is as close to a proper fight as there is, atleast he shows a few different mechanics, but it is still quite simple.

 

Lets break it down.

 

HARD MODE ETERNITY VAULT:

 

1. DPS boss, los (or heal) when he does aoe. Don't stand in red circles. Spread out because he blasts people. TANK IT, SPANK IT.

 

2. DPS boss, run back when knocked back. Move to new platform, kill adds a couple times throughout the fight. TANK IT, SPANK IT.

 

3. Solve the puzzle, a puzzle a 3 year old could surely solve. Some adds come, but they are of little consequence. If you thought the other fights were easy, well you are in for a treat, this is even easier!

 

4. Pick a partner and lets dance. The boss where there is no group cooperation. Solo your mob. Free lewts!

 

5. Soa, looks to be the only challenging fight, though if that is because he is bugged I cannot be sure. You get to go platforming, kill mind traps, run away from lightning balls etc.

 

Molten core was more creative than this crap, its really quite embarassing. Im not sure if I want to continue to raid, since the gear isnt even useful for anything other than raiding and it makes me look like a *** member.

[Althilos]

raid end game in Rift, min/max or go home

[Tonkan]

Then go back to your precious WoW troll!

[eroscastaldi]

wows heroic endgame is still one of the most difficult challenges in the gaming world.

l o l

[ookywooky]

Why do people need a damage meter? I mean ... what benefits do you get by using damage meters? -> you know how much damage you do. And?

 

Why do people need a dot-timer? I mean .. ok, the various icons could be bigger - so you could see the dot-status a little bit better, but why numbers? (bigger icons are done by tweaking the GUI)

 

Why do people need a heal meter? Are you able to heal someone or not? If not, why not? - ok, you could compare the damage numbers and the heal numbers ... BUT that's not all - because of the various dots your tank can get from his opponents. PURGE them. (Something many ppl don't do) -> Then life is easier for a healer.

 

This crying for "I need a xxx meter" is pretty senseless for me. The game is built to be played as it is. No further information is needed to be a good healer/tank/DD. Maybe this changes, but now it is.

 

Let me suggest the following: Try to play it as it is. Try to get the maximum out of the game as it is. And THEN write down what you really need to do your "job" in a better way. I think that we already have all the necessary data we need. Maybe we need some bigger icons, different icons. Or whatever. Just try it.

 

I like it the way it is. And I think that I understand the game mechanics - and that I know how to heal efficiently. I just needed to read - and understand - the descriptions of the various effects.

 

Btw, somthing is really strange in SWTOR: When you shoot, or do damage or some healing, the effect and the calculation of the numbers take place as you press the key. That means, that your opponent's health-bar drops as you press the "fire"-key, but the opponent was not hit at this time - it was hit later (graphical effect). This is really strange.

This results in strange situations: I hit the "fire"-key and the game-client tells me, that my opponent is dead and that I cannot shoot - and at this moment my companion releases its shot. And with this shot the opponent dies. Bioware should time this in a different way. My suggestion.

[JohraTon]

Translation, I cant be competitive with the tools provided so I want to download and install my own.

 

Use what your given. If you're as good as you think you are you'll get on just fine, if you need to download your advantage to set yourself out from the casual players then...

 

And If WoW is so good why aren't you there? I'm assuming your here for a reason.

Edited January 5, 2012 by JohraTon

[DustomaticGXC]

WoW Encounters are weak compared to Everquest 1/2 Encounters, sorry.

 

Your raids didn't last 30-50 hours and didn't have 75+ people.

 

The reason you needed 72 people was because everybody did terrible dps... as there was no way to know how much dps you were doing or how close you were to the tank's threat.

 

And I raided for 6 years in EQ. There isn't an encounter in that game that even comes close to the tougher WoW raid encounters. Having contested bosses so you need to raid 20 hours straight to kill something or wait until the next week doesn't mean the content itself is hard.

[DustomaticGXC]

Why do people need a damage meter? I mean ... what benefits do you get by using damage meters? -> you know how much damage you do. And?

 

Why do people need a dot-timer? I mean .. ok, the various icons could be bigger - so you could see the dot-status a little bit better, but why numbers? (bigger icons are done by tweaking the GUI)

 

Why do people need a heal meter? Are you able to heal someone or not? If not, why not? - ok, you could compare the damage numbers and the heal numbers ... BUT that's not all - because of the various dots your tank can get from his opponents. PURGE them. (Something many ppl don't do) -> Then life is easier for a healer.

 

This crying for "I need a xxx meter" is pretty senseless for me. The game is built to be played as it is. No further information is needed to be a good healer/tank/DD. Maybe this changes, but now it is.

 

Let me suggest the following: Try to play it as it is. Try to get the maximum out of the game as it is. And THEN write down what you really need to do your "job" in a better way. I think that we already have all the necessary data we need. Maybe we need some bigger icons, different icons. Or whatever. Just try it.

 

I like it the way it is. And I think that I understand the game mechanics - and that I know how to heal efficiently. I just needed to read - and understand - the descriptions of the various effects.

 

Btw, somthing is really strange in SWTOR: When you shoot, or do damage or some healing, the effect and the calculation of the numbers take place as you press the key. That means, that your opponent's health-bar drops as you press the "fire"-key, but the opponent was not hit at this time - it was hit later (graphical effect). This is really strange.

This results in strange situations: I hit the "fire"-key and the game-client tells me, that my opponent is dead and that I cannot shoot - and at this moment my companion releases its shot. And with this shot the opponent dies. Bioware should time this in a different way. My suggestion.

 

 

Think of damage/healing meters this way: When your car isn't running right, your mechanic will hook it up to a computer and take a bunch of readings which tell him what's wrong. A raid group is basically a machine. If you can't defeat an encounter, you want to know where the deficiencies are so you can correct them. You can see where aggro is and where mobs are moving, so you don't need a meter for that. You can't see how much damage each player is doing so you don't know, as a raid leader, what needs improving. It's not like your dps is going to go "hey, it's me, I suck".

 

But all the whining is pointless, because the meters ARE coming. It's only a matter of time.

[DustomaticGXC]

Translation, I cant be competitive with the tools provided so I want to download and install my own.

 

Use what your given. If you're as good as you think you are you'll get on just fine, if you need to download your advantage to set yourself out from the casual players then...

 

And If WoW is so good why aren't you there? I'm assuming your here for a reason.

 

Translation: I suck so I don't want anyone knowing how bad I am and am therefor against meters of any kind.

 

And WoW is 7 years old. I'm assuming most people are here for that reason.

 

And how exactly does a damage meter give you an unfair advantage over the "casual player"? Heaven forbid you learn your rotation isn't optimal and you tweak it after seeing low numbers on your damage parses. OMG THAT'S UNFAIR.

 

And if they don't give UI modification, I'm really going to cry. Not even a way to shrink the current layout? Really?

[Muzgash]

I intialy posted these comments in a diffrent thread but i will re post here as seems bigger reply / read.

 

I understand that the majority of gamers have come from the said game, and by this are custom to having addons tell them when they have debuffs to remove or addons telling / warning them when boss is going to do X cast.

 

And by this they have become use to these and find it hard when not given these options, ppl in posts above have said that its bad players that don't want these addons such as dps meters....

 

well i am a good player, (but i would say this ) and In more than 2 games i have previously used addons and dps metter i did very well in what I did. But I have seen what it leads to the reason I do not want them in SWTOR is it changes the game completly for enjoying the class I play and seeing unique characters you end up with clones, of specs and classes.

 

Addons and combat macros lead to ppl de skilling instead of learning combat skill and mechanic of a fight.

 

For example instead of paying attention to boss mechanic, warnigs and environment ppl rely on a meassage popping up to tell them what to do. it's lazy and unskillfull and makes a relatively hard encounter meaningless.

 

As for combat meters, that is a certain down fall of any game leading to 1 skill / macro bashing for max dps and expected specs per class or no entry to group/ raid.

 

if any thing at all maybe Bioware should at end raid or flashpiont put scores for healing / dps as in pvp warzone end results . then ppl who like to improve have more competative edge can do so via this. And maybe none comabt macros if u feel you need to spam raid warnings in ops chat as ops leader.

 

but having each skill spec broken down, (combat log) and ongoing dps meter leads to more meter watching in game than paying attention to what your doing, or what group/ raid is doing. and more so the start of max dps spec ect not what player chooses to play.

 

I dont dis courage self improvment, but I strongly feel combat logs and addons do not help improve any one, 1 person works out a spec and all follow, removing the need to learn or addapt.

And more importantly remove the use of the range of skills i have been given to the class i play, and then game play and fun dies, not to mention the game is then not played as bioware intended.

[JohraTon]

Translation: I suck so I don't want anyone knowing how bad I am and am therefor against meters of any kind.

 

And WoW is 7 years old. I'm assuming most people are here for that reason.

 

And how exactly does a damage meter give you an unfair advantage over the "casual player"? Heaven forbid you learn your rotation isn't optimal and you tweak it after seeing low numbers on your damage parses. OMG THAT'S UNFAIR.

 

And if they don't give UI modification, I'm really going to cry. Not even a way to shrink the current layout? Really?

 

Yea great deduction and you answered your own question. Because you have a 3rd party prog telling you that what your doing is not optimal.

 

How about maybe playing the game and finding out what's best to do? Just a thought.

 

Make some friends in the game, you can then find out who's good for raids etc. Why should players be discriminated against because they aren't as good rather than helping them out? it just creates a community like WoW.

 

The best thing about all this is when SWG players ask for features of that game to be implemented here they get the reply "This isn't SWG 2" by you guys, yet you turn around and ask for all the mods and LFG tools from WoW. This is its own game, I dont have a problem with people suggesting stuff but the sheer rage because they haven't entertained the idea is laughable.

 

There are plenty of games around which allow them, just vote with your wallet, cancel your sub and go to one of them. If the amount of people who want this is really a majority, then BW will sit up and take note at that point.

[AlbertXP]

Bioware should make the essential parts of these tools and make them available to all players. Don't allow 3rd part addons cause some are helping more than they should. Players should have to think on their own, not have an addon tell them which cd to use when.

 

WoW players nowadays only look at the UI i don't even think they know how the game looks like anymore.

Edited January 5, 2012 by AlbertXP

[Raeln]

If your mouse is over the frame already, why is it such a game breaker to have to click it?

That is what I am not understanding here.

I guess hitting tab afterwards to retarget the enemy is also ovewrwhelmingly difficult.

 

I could understand this kind of thinking if you were disabled in some way, missing the use of an arm or something, but seriously dude, its a convenience at best, not a must have.

 

So three mouse clicks per heal?

 

1st click - target the player, be it a mouse click or one of the F1-F8 keys.

2nd click - cast the heal.

3rd click - retarget the enemy.

Repeat this each time someone else needs a heal.

 

Opposed to mouseover targeting where I click one button and the UI automatically grabs the target my mouse pointer is hovering over.

 

 

It's about efficiency man. There's no tank in the world (or dps for that matter) that would put up with having to do that same routine for each attack they made on the boss.

[dmanlong]

So three mouse clicks per heal?

 

1st click - target the player, be it a mouse click or one of the F1-F8 keys.

2nd click - cast the heal.

3rd click - retarget the enemy.

Repeat this each time someone else needs a heal.

 

Opposed to mouseover targeting where I click one button and the UI automatically grabs the target my mouse pointer is hovering over.

 

 

It's about efficiency man. There's no tank in the world (or dps for that matter) that would put up with having to do that same routine for each attack they made on the boss.

 

 

Totally agree.

 

Healing is beyond annoying right now. Can it be done? Sure, but why would I want to heal like this?

[Raeln]

Not really; What else are you going to do while you're on global or waiting for a castbar?

 

I'm exceedingly pro-addon, but the fuss people are making over click casting is horrendously disproportionate to how important it actually is.

 

You may change your tune when healers are rare at end game. I went into beta fully prepared to heal my way through many flashpoints.

 

I left beta completely disgusted that the healing portion of the UI is still 6 years in the past.

 

No mouseover targeting/click casting + No debuff highlighting + tiny buff/debuff icons = me very resistant to healing. I guarantee that I'm not the only healer friendly player to feel this way.

[Raeln]

Ventured into hardmode eternity vault today, killed the first 4, Soa seemed a bit buggy with those lightning balls going invisible and still killing people, but whatever.

 

I dont find raiding in swtor to be enjoyable. It is hard to min/max without damage meters or even proper DOT TIMERS. As a dot class it is *********** miserable to try and manage my dots without timers, especially when I have 2 other madness spec people in the raid, I have no way to tell which dots are mine.

 

The raids are not challenging. They are SIMPLE mechanics with tight enrage timers. Soa is as close to a proper fight as there is, atleast he shows a few different mechanics, but it is still quite simple.

 

Lets break it down.

 

HARD MODE ETERNITY VAULT:

 

1. DPS boss, los (or heal) when he does aoe. Don't stand in red circles. Spread out because he blasts people. TANK IT, SPANK IT.

 

2. DPS boss, run back when knocked back. Move to new platform, kill adds a couple times throughout the fight. TANK IT, SPANK IT.

 

3. Solve the puzzle, a puzzle a 3 year old could surely solve. Some adds come, but they are of little consequence. If you thought the other fights were easy, well you are in for a treat, this is even easier!

 

4. Pick a partner and lets dance. The boss where there is no group cooperation. Solo your mob. Free lewts!

 

5. Soa, looks to be the only challenging fight, though if that is because he is bugged I cannot be sure. You get to go platforming, kill mind traps, run away from lightning balls etc.

 

Molten core was more creative than this crap, its really quite embarassing. Im not sure if I want to continue to raid, since the gear isnt even useful for anything other than raiding and it makes me look like a *** member.

 

Hyperbole is not your friend here.

 

Molten Core consisted of "spam dispel/remove curse", AoE down the pack, and CC that guy, then kill them in this order. Oh yeah, and dodge the patches of fire on the ground.

 

Why do people expect a MMO to provide the challenge of a single player title?

[dmanlong]

You may change your tune when healers are rare at end game. I went into beta fully prepared to heal my way through many flashpoints.

 

I left beta completely disgusted that the healing portion of the UI is still 6 years in the past.

 

No mouseover targeting/click casting + No debuff highlighting + tiny buff/debuff icons = me very resistant to healing. I guarantee that I'm not the only healer friendly player to feel this way.

 

Same. I leveled a smuggler healer up to 44 and after healing many of the FP I have decided to re-roll for the time being until they make the UI more healer friendly.

 

At the very minimum:

 

Mouse over healing and macros are needed.

Customizable buffs and debuff I can actually see.

The ability to lump in companions with the raid frames.

I would prefer some sort of power auras proc so I can see when necessary buff proc but that is more of a want than a need.

[Raeln]

Totally agree.

 

Healing is beyond annoying right now. Can it be done? Sure, but why would I want to heal like this?

 

For sure. I had given serious thought about leveling as a healer. I was excited about getting tanking companions to level up with - until I played the beta and realized how weak the healing UI tools were.

 

No thanks. At this point, I'm not even sure if I'm going to suck it up to heal for the guild full time when more hit 50. Especially with no dual spec yet.

[sunajus]

I would personally be in favor of passive addons. Damagemeters, Omen threat meter, etc. Addons that monitor your output. Or maybe UI addons. Maybe.

 

Where a line is drawn (in my mind) between chump and not-chump is addons like decursive. Hell, even Deadly Boss mod made a lot of encounters in WoW trivial. So yeah, I say leave those out and let the really bad players (most) suffer without their little toys which cover up their own ineptitude while at the same time letting them move through content easily, which causes the development team to try and counter.

 

Bottom line, half of you "pro'ers" advocating for your crutches in a brand new game are not really "pro". You probably know what you are.

Edited January 5, 2012 by sunajus

[Lan-Lord]

I love Star wars (BW make some fantastic stories)

But all you wow haters make me laugh when ur facts come out of a different orifice than your mouth.

 

There are things I hate about wow, the fact that the solo play or levelling is so easy now that my 8 year old has a lvl 70+ toon and hits good dps in dungeons BUT to say wow is easy as at end game is to not know what your talking about.

 

Someone said on one of these many pages that they had killed HM Rag 25 man with just 10 ppl! Lol lol lol lol. Mathematically not possible and never happened.

 

Someone also said that most casual guilds are working on or have killed HM Deathwing, again complete and total rubbish with no facts to back it up

 

Fact!

Hard mode Kills : Madness of Deathwing: 20 guilds (0.05%) Yeah so all you ppl who say endgame raiding is easy are within that 0.05% that have killed all

 

Normal Mode Kills : Madness of Deathwing: 14837 (37.40%) So yeah most casual guilds can kill DW on HM yet over 60% haven’t killed him on normal.

 

The above is the Tier 13 raids and below is T12 which is over with! And look at how many guild haven’t even killed all the bosses on Hard mode from the previous Tier!

All the ppl saying rag is easy on HM look at the fact that still only 4% of guilds have done it!

 

H: Beth'tilac: 13609 (26.35%)

H: Lord Rhyolith: 18610 (36.04%)

H: Alysrazor: 16444 (31.84%)

H: Shannox: 27996 (54.21%)

H: Baleroc: 14781 (28.62%)

H: Majordomo: 19963 (38.66%)

H: Ragnaros: 2064 (4.00%)

 

I think we should be able to compare these two wonderful games but we need to use facts and stop making stuff up!

 

Back to Star Wars

I agree we need a combat log and mouse over healing but one thing that kills me is the Intelligent Camera and the inability to switch it off! If I want to look backwards while running and use my abilities please let me, don’t make the camera snap back to the front!

[Lan-Lord]

Also I think there should not be addons but BW/EA should make the addons them selfs and have full control over the systems

[Nessirin]

Shrug I'm doing endgame healing without any addons just fine. And I'm enjoying actually being able to watch the fight while I do it. Part of why I never healed in WoW was because as a dps/tank I could enjoy seeing the fight, when our healers were knee-deep in addons to even have a space on their screen for the action.

[NoxiousAlby]

My first question is this,

Given that the number of people participating in raids over the last few years have dropped (going by my experience) why should BW be bothered to allow 3rd party addons that will effect the entire community when they will only be used by a minority?

 

Blizz even intoduced a raid finder very similiar to their dungeon finder with watered down raid content just to encourage players to get involved.

 

If guilds currently doing heroic operations in Swtor can do so without addons why do other players feel compelled to have them? Part of me believes that its a habbit. If you used them for the last 7 years then you will naturally want to continue to use.

 

BW has already buckled under the pressure and said they are developing their version of a damage meter. My suggestion is for players to just have a go, trying running operations without the addons and you may realise that in this game they arent necessary.