What Determines SWTOR's Failure?

[jndca]

It's a perfectly valid term that encompasses nearly all of the game's shortcomings.

 

Im not going to disagree that "aspects" of the game are incomplete.. but the story part of it isn't. The questing isn't. I'd say 80 percent of it IS complete. Crafting blows. Ilum blows. Pvp has its problems. And there are bugs. Obviously. Skyrim has bugs and its a SINGLE PLAYER GAME. HOW CAN A SINGLE PLAYER GAME NOW HAVE BUGS? The dragon was flying around BACKWARDS. BACKWARDS. Sorry, small rant there. But you get my drift. I guess if you are level 50 right now and have competed EVERY quest and EVERY other aspect of your story you might find it boring but im certainly not bored at 50.. that's just me and obviously both of our opinions count for very little.

[DTuloJr]

Oh here come the "incomplete" people. Do i really have to point out how trollish you all sound? How many times has this point been made and shot down by other people? If you don't like it, get out.

 

Many of us spent nearly a year testing the game, some more so since it went into closed beta October 2010, and have a VERY good sense that yes, the game was released massively incomplete, full of bugs, bad or worse design decisions, and about 4-6 months worth of polish away from being truly ready to release. Thankfully, it doesn't really have stability bugs, but unfortunately, that appears to have been one of the very few "release criteria" that was used.

 

Trollish? It's a valid opinion. Shot down? In what universe? Seen all of the bugs and fixes they've been throwing out? Three quarters of what I've reported has still never been fixed. People trying to stifle legitimate participation in these forums, such as fanboys, augments the panic impressions being reported to investors and stockholders. That's not a good thing.

[Dylancholy]

Im not going to disagree that "aspects" of the game are incomplete.. but the story part of it isn't. The questing isn't. I'd say 80 percent of it IS complete. Crafting blows. Ilum blows. Pvp has its problems. And there are bugs. Obviously. Skyrim has bugs and its a SINGLE PLAYER GAME. HOW CAN A SINGLE PLAYER GAME NOW HAVE BUGS? The dragon was flying around BACKWARDS. BACKWARDS. Sorry, small rant there. But you get my drift. I guess if you are level 50 right now and have competed EVERY quest and EVERY other aspect of your story you might find it boring but im certainly not bored at 50.. that's just me and obviously both of our opinions count for very little.

Yeah see that's why I'm not heavily criticizing this game or anything.

There's no real point. The most applicable criticism to make is that it's incomplete. We all know about Ilum and the bugs and millions of little this and that. I'm not going to waste my time getting into all that because they all come down to one basic complaint.

I think there is a level of dissatisfaction with this game because of the knowledge that many issues will take a long time to fix; people generally don't like waiting to love something more once it is out. That's why I brought up Minecraft.

 

Minecraft was released as public alpha so it would actually be community funded. It worked because the type of game it was. Bioware isn't trying the same thing, but because of the nature of certain aspects not being quite perfectly fleshed out yet, it can feel that way, and people feel like they aren't getting their money's worth because they feel like they purchased an unfinished product.

 

I enjoy this game, despite the shortcomings, and will stick with it, despite the ETA on those shortcomings.

Edited February 25, 2012 by Dylancholy

[DarthKhaos]

FYI: No MMO is complete at launch.

 

Not UO, Not EQ, Not FFXI, Not EvE, Not WoW, Not even Rift which is the only MMO I know of that some say had a smoother launch that SW:TOR.

 

A new MMO is a base to build upon. If the core concept is good, the leveling is nice and areas for growth (locations, lore, features, etc.) the game should see some success.

 

Problem is gamers today has become unrealistic with expectations. Be it that they've spent too much time in a previous game and forgot about how MMOs develop or think that programming has some how become easier in 2012 I do not know. What I do know is that a lot of them, especially those on the forums are fickle. They are chasing a pipe dream, a super game that would never exist and will float from game to game being unhappy with every single choice they made.

[Szasstim]

It would have been if the endless sea of babies did not come on this site and beg for the game to be released regardless of its shape. BW tried to take its time, but the general gaming community got all upset because of the launch push backs....

 

dont blame BW or EA, blame yourself and the others who cried to have the game released..

 

What a condescending, aggressive little person you are.

 

Your point, for the record is ridiculous and I could spend the next hour writing little analogies that work for almost every profession to why people who are truly masters of what they do, execute them in whatever timely fashion they require to achieve the best results.

 

Now achieving the best results is a subjective thing and comes down in this case I suspect to some basic board room pressures to start bringing in money rather than because they felt any amount of requirement to suddenly rush out the game due to an impatient fan base.

 

How long have Blizzard put back Diablo 3? I can remember a time 9-10 years ago where there was hope it might be due at some point in the mid term. It wasn't really until about 3.5 years ago that they really seriously dusted it back off again and since that time it's been put back nearly 2 further years with still no confirmed date.

 

Some companies just have different yard sticks they measure themselves against and as a result their products show it.

 

The problem is that every MMO that fails weirdly raises the bar for the next because the expectation is (and in terms of learning you would always hope) that it will at least be as good as everything learned in the ones that preceded it. In the very least you would expect it to be as good as the established market leader.

 

This game thus far aspires to that accolade but in truth, there are so many things that as of yet it simply does not do as well as that market leader (which will remain nameless to protect the innocent).

 

I think one person almost summed it up earlier in this thread.

 

It really comes down to managing player expectation and delivering something better than was expected. People then have that seed firmly planted that if they stay the course their gaming experience will continue to get better.

 

Unfortunately SWTOR was stupidly hyped and now BW are left in a position where they probably don't have the resource to deliver what people now expect from this game in the time frame which they will want it in. Rightly or wrongly, people expect this game to be as matured as it's established contemporaries and when they notice elements that are not it simply degrades the experience.

 

My guild are already foaming at the mouth at the lack of combat parsing available to do any meaningful theory crafting with and we're barely 3 months into release. We knew ahead of launch it wouldn't be implemented until later on, but what we didn't expect was how much we'd find it annoying to our post 50 play not having it available.

 

I need some breakfast, happy trolling ;-)

[lyyr]

It probably won't fail and keep enough subs.

 

However, I had been overexcited about this game for years and I couldn't be more disappointed, so for me personally it has absolutely failed.

 

The world seems dead, the music is good but you never hear it,

too little to do at lvl 50 and everyone is wearing the same gear.

The list can go on, but it's probably been said elsewhere.

 

And yes I'm a first class Bioware fan and huge SW fan..

[bejay]

I keep seeing all these threads in this forum and the running theme is that SWTOR is going to fail is failing has already failed. The time lines for these failure projections range from 2 weeks to 6 months to a year, but what determines if SWTOR is a failure?

 

1. EA/Bioware lost money due to high development costs ($300 million) so SWTOR is a financial failure!

 

The fact is the game has sold at least 1.5 million copies already recouping about $90 million. Even if they don't sell another copy and 50% of the buyers unsubscribe they still recoup all their costs in little over a year and this doesn't even take into account the additional money brought in by the CE editions or DD editions

 

2. The game will fail because tons of people are unsubscribing and SWTOR will just die from lack of players!

 

The fact is not every game is WoW, every game doesn't need 11 million players to stay alive. There are plenty of MMOs that not only survive but thrive with only a few hundred thousand players and are in no danger of being shut down. Star Wars Galaxies lasted over 8 years with a rather small player base compared to WoW. Even if 90% of all the current SWTOR players quit it still would not die. If you judge the success or failure of a MMO on whether it knocks WoW off the MMO mountain then every MMO is a failure in your eyes.

 

3. SWTOR is failing so bad it will be Free To Play in "X" weeks/months!

 

The fact is a game going Free To Play doesn't constitute a failure. In fact most MMOs that switch from a subscription based business model to a Free to Play + Microtransactions business model see a surge in their player base. Examples being LOTRO and DC Universe Online, which is a perfect example as it had a great release then lost most of it's subscribers in the first few months then late last year they went free to play + microtransactions and then gained over 1 million new players. Farmville works on a free to play + microtransactions model and has a player base of over 110 million players with an average 32 million players playing online at any given moment. Zynga makes over $500 million a year just from Farmville. A game being or becoming free to play hardly constitutes a failure in fact it is probably just the opposite.

 

So exactly what has determined that SWTOR will fail and/or die? What massive MMO expertise do you bring to the table that allows you disregard the above facts? What makes SWTOR a failure? Because you or many of you have decided to quit playing? I hate to break it to you but SWTOR will still be alive and well for years to come whether you are here or not.

 

 

Just somthing to back u up

any1 remember Anarchy Online(still 1 of the best)

this what happened with that game at launch

 

Reception

During its first month of release many stability, registration, and billing issues hurt public perception of the game. Some gaming reporters which said it was the worst launch of an MMO in the history of the genre. Funcom spent about 6 months fixing the game, particularly the beginning experience. The company then took the "fixed game" on a press tour to convince reporters to give it another try, even though reviews and scores had been printed months before. At the same time, the company needed to build subscribers, which was very difficult given the reputation of the game. Funcom introduced the first "free trial" of the game and gave out returned boxed copies for free at the 2002 Game Developer's Conference. Some gaming publications which told their readers about the improved game, although they did not change their original scores. By the end of that year, Anarchy Online had recovered from the launch woes and won the MMO of the Year award from PC Gamer. The company went on to create expansions, including the Shadowlands expansion in 2003 that earned several Editor's Choice awards.

 

Sales and subscriptions

Five days after the game's launch, public relations director Marit Lund announced that "35,000 registered accounts" had been created. By 2002, the total number of subscriptions created since launch was stated as 150,000. After the release of the Shadowlands and Alien Invasion expansion packs, total subscriptions had risen to 700,000 in late 2004. Sales of the game, its expansion packs, and monthly customer subscriptions had generated US$28 million dollars by 2005.

 

The "free play" program, started in 2004, has had the most significant effect on subscriptions to date. ”More than 400,000 new players" signed up for free subscriptions in the program's first ten months according to Funcom CEO Trond Arne Aas. The next year, the number of free subscriptions created, independent of paid subscriptions, was stated as one million. The income from the program—which had generated $1,000,000 by its second year—supplements revenue from paid accounts.

 

Funcom attributed "higher than expected" company profits in 2006 to Lost Eden's release in December of that year.Subscription revenue during this time was described as "steady" and "profitable". Subscription revenue remained "steady" for the next three years, until 2009 when they were described as "slowly declining". It was stated that close to two million subscriptions, both free and paid, had been created by July 2008.

 

 

 

That being said being free to play isnt all the bad if the game has potential and TOR has plenty of potential and room to improve so it wont be going anywhere and is here to stay for some time!

[-Alma-]

For me, how good a game is when its launched determines its future. You never get a 2nd chance to make a first impression.

[LaVolpex]

lol

 

what a pointless thread...

 

if the game fails , or is a success is NOT RELEVANT TO ME

 

because i have ZERO invested in this game, except for the retail price for the account, wich is peanuts at the end of the day (50 cents a day , i spend more than that before i even get to my job on gas)

 

so whether or not its a financial succes is not relevant at all to me, what is relevant is whether the game is fun to play for me or not..

 

and it is very fun to me to play, so pretty much the answer to your question is this:

 

to me , the game is succesful because it is not even a little bit as broken as 90% of the forum trolls would like you to think

 

also remember, only a ver , very , very small fraction of the playerbase even reads the forums, they are actually busy ingame PLAYING IT , wich in and of itself is an answer to your question too....if they are playing and not complaining on the forums , the game is also a success and fun to those players..

 

 

so stop looking for the next hipster bandwagon to join, and if you are not enjoying the game leave already and stop trying to make everyone else think as you do about the game.

[LaVolpex]

FYI: No MMO is complete at launch.

 

Not UO, Not EQ, Not FFXI, Not EvE, Not WoW, Not even Rift which is the only MMO I know of that some say had a smoother launch that SW:TOR.

 

A new MMO is a base to build upon. If the core concept is good, the leveling is nice and areas for growth (locations, lore, features, etc.) the game should see some success.

 

Problem is gamers today has become unrealistic with expectations. Be it that they've spent too much time in a previous game and forgot about how MMOs develop or think that programming has some how become easier in 2012 I do not know. What I do know is that a lot of them, especially those on the forums are fickle. They are chasing a pipe dream, a super game that would never exist and will float from game to game being unhappy with every single choice they made.

 

QFT , couldnt ahve said it better myself

[Palonto]

i dont care who considers it a failure. it aint fun for me

 

Why are you still here... Good bye

[Jett-Rinn]

For me, how good a game is when its launched determines its future. You never get a 2nd chance to make a first impression.

 

So I had zero problems when TOR launched I have been happily playing with just a minor glitch here and there; everyone I know says the same thing...and my guild is growing so that is a ever increasing number. In fact I have yet to hear one person complain on my server.

 

 

So what is my first impression?

 

Should I toss aside that first impression because of few trolls and haters on the forums keep posting the same cry-doom BS?

 

Should I listen to their idiocy when they call me a fanboi and tell me and all those positive reviewers and GOTY awards don't count??

 

Yes Icabod Fuzzbottom from whineville Mass says the game is fail so it is a universal fail right??

 

Right?

Edited February 25, 2012 by Jett-Rinn

[WLpride]

Simply, a lack of gaming social structure and networking.

 

What better example of a MMO failure than that it cannot keep people interested in one another beyond a person to person relationship?

 

A MMO should not implode because of failure of Social Cultures and structures. A MMO should 'take-off' due to culture and social phenomenon.

Edited February 25, 2012 by WLpride

[Voqar]

I don't think this game is a failure at all and I feel for all future MMORPGs of quality, because it's actually the players that are failing.

 

Players today are:

 

- exceptionally selfish and rude

- have zero clue about MMORPG history and zero perspective in comparing games

- want everything for doing nothing and want to do it solo in a multiplayer game

- expect an impossible amount of content

- have the attention span of houseflies

- play these games like jobs, because most of them have no jobs or life, then wonder why there's nothing left to do

- rush thru everything with zero appreciation for what they're experiencing, then ask for more

 

I guess it is the makers of the games who fail in this way: they continue to try to appeal to the light players who have zero appreciation for the genre, the content, or anything, they try to appeal to the selfish brats, they try to get more subs by attracting low quallity players who do nothing but complain. The make solo ez mode content when the genre is about grouping and social activities, give away amazing loot for doing nothing (instanced PvP in TOR, for exampe, normal EV, for example) and players are never happy and just want more.

 

To me the failure isn't TOR, it's more the approach of trying to appeal to the wrong kinds of players. These games cost a ton to make, so they have little choice, but the genre as a whole was better off when fewer played, players had respect for the genre, the content, and each other, and we didn't have a lot of spoiled, selfish, rude brats mowing down everything instantly and complaining about everything constantly.

[Voqar]

Ask yourself this? What game is going to do it better?

 

Apparently nobody played WoW at release or your infantile memories only consider WoW now instead of WoW at release. WoW at release had zero BGs (1st one came 6 months after release), almost no raids (Molten Core was 40 man which is hardly accessible to the masses), no hard mode instances, less than 5 level cap instances, no emblem grinds, only the very most rudamentary gear sets, few rep grinds. WoW was both amazing at release but very simplistic endgame-wise by today's standards.

 

Other games had far, far less at release.

 

Other MMORPGs coming out in the near future? GW2, SW? Do you really think they're going to release with an endless amount of content and endgame? Really? It's simply not possible.

 

The average brat of today's MMORPGs cannot be pleased. They mow down any and all content in a few weeks and there's no way devs can keep up. Trion does a pretty good job of pushing out amazing quantities of content and even they can't keep up with the hardcore players who eat content up like candy.

 

What do you realistically expect? How can any dev produce enough content in enough time to satisfy you people?

 

Maybe...just maybe, you, the modern MMO player, YOU are the problem. Not the games. Unrealistic expectations, play the games like jobs, completely out of touch with the realities of programming, content creation, and running these games - but don't let that stop you from spewing like you know it all, just like in the toxic general chat within the game.

[BoomstarPrime]

This game was supposed to give WoW a good punch in the nose. Really it seems it more so gave a light glove slap.

[BoomstarPrime]

Ask yourself this? What game is going to do it better?

 

Apparently nobody played WoW at release or your infantile memories only consider WoW now instead of WoW at release. WoW at release had zero BGs (1st one came 6 months after release), almost no raids (Molten Core was 40 man which is hardly accessible to the masses), no hard mode instances, less than 5 level cap instances, no emblem grinds, only the very most rudamentary gear sets, few rep grinds. WoW was both amazing at release but very simplistic endgame-wise by today's standards.

 

Other games had far, far less at release.

 

Other MMORPGs coming out in the near future? GW2, SW? Do you really think they're going to release with an endless amount of content and endgame? Really? It's simply not possible.

 

The average brat of today's MMORPGs cannot be pleased. They mow down any and all content in a few weeks and there's no way devs can keep up. Trion does a pretty good job of pushing out amazing quantities of content and even they can't keep up with the hardcore players who eat content up like candy.

 

What do you realistically expect? How can any dev produce enough content in enough time to satisfy you people?

 

Maybe...just maybe, you, the modern MMO player, YOU are the problem. Not the games. Unrealistic expectations, play the games like jobs, completely out of touch with the realities of programming, content creation, and running these games - but don't let that stop you from spewing like you know it all, just like in the toxic general chat within the game.

 

O god blaming the players the true hallmark of a fanboy....

[Azumio]

Development Cost, and what they got back at launch.

 

Continued money flow (Subscribers) to make more content.

 

Given the amount this game costed to make, they need a significantly bigger subscriber base than your average MMORPG.

 

Remember, any extra content added in will have to be fully Voiced. That's a good chunk of money.

[Zannis]

Ask yourself this? What game is going to do it better?

 

Apparently nobody played WoW at release or your infantile memories only consider WoW now instead of WoW at release. WoW at release had zero BGs (1st one came 6 months after release), almost no raids (Molten Core was 40 man which is hardly accessible to the masses), no hard mode instances, less than 5 level cap instances, no emblem grinds, only the very most rudamentary gear sets, few rep grinds. WoW was both amazing at release but very simplistic endgame-wise by today's standards.

 

Pong has none of the features we find in modern video games. Would you pay full retail for a similar game?

[Jett-Rinn]

Ask yourself this? What game is going to do it better?

 

Apparently nobody played WoW at release or your infantile memories only consider WoW now instead of WoW at release. WoW at release had zero BGs (1st one came 6 months after release), almost no raids (Molten Core was 40 man which is hardly accessible to the masses), no hard mode instances, less than 5 level cap instances, no emblem grinds, only the very most rudamentary gear sets, few rep grinds. WoW was both amazing at release but very simplistic endgame-wise by today's standards.

 

Other games had far, far less at release.

 

Other MMORPGs coming out in the near future? GW2, SW? Do you really think they're going to release with an endless amount of content and endgame? Really? It's simply not possible.

 

The average brat of today's MMORPGs cannot be pleased. They mow down any and all content in a few weeks and there's no way devs can keep up. Trion does a pretty good job of pushing out amazing quantities of content and even they can't keep up with the hardcore players who eat content up like candy.

 

What do you realistically expect? How can any dev produce enough content in enough time to satisfy you people?

 

Maybe...just maybe, you, the modern MMO player, YOU are the problem. Not the games. Unrealistic expectations, play the games like jobs, completely out of touch with the realities of programming, content creation, and running these games - but don't let that stop you from spewing like you know it all, just like in the toxic general chat within the game.

 

Well said and I honestly can't wait until the masses start playing GW2...The QQ there will make what has happened on these forums in the past three months look like a Pep rally. You already are hearing the whispers beneath the din of gushing commercials from Massively; but the fact is GW2 has tons of issues and is nowhere near release ready and It's a single player RPG with multiplayer elements and it absolutely Loathes the Progression raider playstyle.

[DarthKhaos]

- have the attention span of houseflies

Please don't insult house flies like that.

 

Pong has none of the features we find in modern video games. Would you pay full retail for a similar game?

Isn't that what all those tennis games are? Pong on full retail price?

[WLpride]

Ask yourself this? What game is going to do it better?

A game can do well being only fundamentally good , without the need for good graphics and movies.

 

 

Other games had far, far less at release.

Warhammer didn't. It had more classes and more achievements way more ambiance and character. More GUI features and support, WAY better Guilds AND Alliances implementation.

Warhammer also HAD debatedly better endgame considering it took most people a year to get geared right up back then, and not really untill the second year that everybody had full Sovereign gear. RR80 was a pretty long grind. So considering players here are doing 'endgame' in one day is kinda disappointing.

 

Also, Warhammer would be into it's 2nd Live Event already if it were compared to SWTOR in terms of content.

 

OFC SW kills in the movie department and several other categories like companions / level design / progression..

 

Other MMORPGs coming out in the near future? GW2, SW? Do you really think they're going to release with an endless amount of content and endgame? Really? It's simply not possible.

 

If they spent 50 mil on actual content and not movies they could.

Maybe...just maybe, you, the modern MMO player, YOU are the problem. Not the games. Unrealistic expectations, play the games like jobs, completely out of touch with the realities of programming, content creation, and running these games - but don't let that stop you from spewing like you know it all, just like in the toxic general chat within the game.

 

I just expect the game to do well in terms of it's designation and category.

 

MMO = many players and not a big SP experience

WARS = big battles going on (PvP!!!) including PvP endgame *

 

* something neither of EA big MMO titles have

Edited February 25, 2012 by WLpride

[DarthKhaos]

Warhammer didn't. It had more classes and more achievements way more ambiance and character. More GUI features and support, WAY better Guilds AND Alliances implementation.

Warhammer also HAD debatedly better endgame considering it took most people a year to get geared right up back then, and not really untill the second year that everybody had full Sovereign gear. RR80 was a pretty long grind. So considering players here are doing 'endgame' in one day is kinda disappointing.

Sounds great... So what happened to it?

[WLpride]

Sounds great... So what happened to it?

 

I still play it daily, but it is a completely different game now. They changed so much to add on extra levels that it really didn't make many people happy. It basically sold-out to the Gear and Renown whor3s to keep them playing for another 6 months of leveling and a near-complete 'flush' of existing players changed for new ones. They added new levels but didn't add new content

 

All the PvE instance was also removed to make city 'raid' all PvP -and it's mostly e-z mode now and easily exploitable to avoid fighting but completely EPIC when the sun and moon align and players get a good match-up.

 

Other than the stupid direction and extremely bad direction since last year it is still getting a lot of players coming for the open world and scenarios.

 

There has been a lot of good patches but also some bad ones, but it has a lot going for it as far as the only game around with true open world zones.

[DarthKhaos]

Sounds like the game changed over time.