Starting to be a bit concerned, is this game TOO casual?

[Phaedrynn]

Compare it to the titles it followed, and that's quite untrue. What Blizzard has done well enough is evolve to meet the needs of an aging playerbase. The kid who was 15 or 16 in 2004 likely doesn't have the same time to raid now that he, or she, is a college grad.

 

As someone who was 23 those seven years ago, I appreciated the casual aspect of vanilla WoW and appreciate things like LFR and LFD to a great degree now.

 

Well, I was replying in context of the comment I quoted. When wow was originally developed it was not catering to the casual crowd. Also, keep in mind that "casual" to an EQ raider meant something very different. WoW, as a result of it's massive success, has greatly increased the player base of the genre. Pre-wow casual means something different than post-wow casual.

 

However, if you look at the changes in wow, over the life of that game, you can clearly see where and when the philosophy changed. When the original BC attunment process was scrapped, things changed radically. Now they are pugging raid content, that would have been unthinkable in vanilla wow, or even early BC. That's how far wow has fallen (imho), and a large part of why I stopped playing right after WOTLK was released.

[urborror]

<For some reason , no one believes the heroic quests are easy at the right level. Either the few of us that say they are easy are lying , or the general population of tor is just bad...>

 

Maybe everyone's terrible.

 

I've just been healing, which it's hard to be too bad at. Maybe I wasn't throwing up enough static barriers. Here's my most recent experiences, yesterday:

 

Alderaan: Insufficient Staff: 2 attempts with full groups mid-to-over leveled. It's a level 31, and one run we had a level 34 and 35 (one tank too, not all sith sorcerers.) Both groups disbanded without success after numerous deaths. Attempts at strategic CC were in effect (perhaps incompetently.)

 

Assault on Fort Alde: 4 players beat it with numerous deaths mostly stemming from mobs we already killed respawning. A more systematic approach would have worked but after we beat it the group was sickened, hated the mission, hated doing heroics in general (which is why I assume it's been harder and harder to find a group, could be wrong, maybe just bad luck.) They said these things out loud, in party chat, as opposed to the elite people on this board.

 

The Lanar Question: 2 attempts to find a group spamming "LFG," 1 response, bailed when we couldn't find a group--100 people on the planet. Probably about 25 minutes total spent just looking for a group, totally unsuccessful.

 

Prior to this I had another party get destroyed by the first mob on another Tattooine heroic, that group disbanded too. That's like 5 un-fun experiences in a row pertaining to heroics.

[rushx]

Ive been loving every minute of it so far and im only lvl 40.

 

then why are you whining?

 

your having fun what else does it matter?

 

another example of people using this forums just to moan or whatever because they are bored

[Phaedrynn]

Alderaan: Insufficient Staff: 2 attempts with full groups mid-to-over leveled. It's a level 31, and one run we had a level 34 and 35 (one tank too, not all sith sorcerers.) Both groups disbanded without success after numerous deaths. Attempts at strategic CC were in effect (perhaps incompetently.)

 

Did this last weekend. Group consisted of me, level 32 Powertech, a level 30 Operative, and a level 30 Juggernaut (not tank specced), and the Juggs healer pet. Of the three, I think I am the only one with significant MMO experience.

 

Assault on Fort Alde: 4 players beat it with numerous deaths mostly stemming from mobs we already killed respawning. A more systematic approach would have worked but after we beat it the group was sickened, hated the mission, hated doing heroics in general (which is why I assume it's been harder and harder to find a group, could be wrong, maybe just bad luck.) They said these things out loud, in party chat, as opposed to the elite people on this board.

 

 

This is the Area 4, correct? If so, the only real problem is Phase 2, other than that it was no harder than your average Heroic 4. Completed it with the same group as above.

[Tenetke]

There's a difference between those who are bored and those who want to relax. Bored people tend to want a challenge.

 

Some mobs and other parts of the game might need some rebalancing, however, this game is pretty easy. There's more casual players then hardcores, and SWTOR was meant attract a very big playerbase.

 

Again, yea, compared to any other MMO - this game is pretty casual. There's many that agree and want the game to be relaxing. And it is.

 

I'm just curious why some casual players are getting offended when others claim this game is casual. Is SWTOR still too hard for some people? lol

 

There is a huge difference in saying the game is casual, which it is, and saying everything is too easy. They are not the same, nor is it the same to say that someone is casual and someone is bad. Two different things, but to this crowd it all means the same.

 

Take for example people that over level, and over gear something doing it and then saying "hey that was too easy". Well, you are damn right it was too easy. It was designed that way. Yet this is the same group that if you put something in they can't beat will complain that it's too hard, and that it should be nerfed. There is literally no pleasing them.

 

To put it in easier to understand terms

 

if content == beaten return too easy

if content != beaten return too hard

 

There is no middle ground for them, no room for any kind of tuning. Therefore you can't make them happy. Therefore you should ignore them. I know this mainly because I used to be that kind of player. It ruined my gaming, and it started to ruin my group that I played with. All of us would raid , sure we would wipe but we kept going, we got the boss down soon enough and would farm him weekly. At that point though it became pointless. Once you have beaten something it lost it's reasoning for being interesting.

 

With this game though all of us put that aside. We play for various reasons now, but none of them are to down that next boss and get our next epic. Instead it's to just have fun. That is casual to me. Sure we could have rushed, we could have been downing bosses but really what's the point in that? It will only serve to leave you frustrated because you burn through new content and go "now what". Instead we take our time, quest together, do the fp/heroics etc and have fun. The first time one of us discovers something it's a shared experience. That first view of ald was great. The suns over the desert in tat, just wonderful experiences. Hell playing the game and looking at your character sheet to see a piece of green gear, before that would have been stupid. Now, it doesn't matter so much.

 

Thats my play style now, and the reason I give it is so that people will understand I know where the OP is coming from. I can also tell him, he won't be happy no matter what. Not until he stops looking at it from his current perspective (I assume it's a guy, if it's a woman please understand I meant no disrespect by calling you him)

[Amdarius]

Seems to be the market trend. I enjoyed MMO's much better when they were a lot more difficult, but I know I'm in the minority on that. Though I long for the days of DAoC and EQ where it was punishing to fail.

 

I'm with ya man. Hoping for a niche game here soon that caters to our preferences. Today's MMO players like EZ mode games where they don't fail, don't get frustrated, and can get all the best gear easily while soloing.

[darthjerro]

then why are you whining?

 

your having fun what else does it matter?

 

another example of people using this forums just to moan or whatever because they are bored

 

Because i fear for the future. Once i hit 50.

 

I quit wrath and cata at end game because is was all so watered down, the leveling was good, but the end game was way to casual for my liking

[Aleeha]

Ive been loving every minute of it so far and im only lvl 40.

 

On the fleet, everywhere i look there are 50's running around in full epic gear already.

Be it pvp, or pve, its still all ....epic.....

 

I read elsewhere all hardmode raid bosses where already down after 2 weeks.

I know i should only care about my progression, but just hearing that makes me loose a bit of the allure of raiding that i was looking forward too.

 

None of the flashpoints have been any challenge yet, and i asked a few guildies and most said the hardmodes wernt really tat much challenge either.

 

I knew this game was going to be a casual friendly mmo, but i have to ask, is this just a bit "too easy "?

 

I honestly thought warcraft was our fisherprice mmo, raiding for kids but i suppose i cant really say to much as i have no experience with end game tor yet.

 

 

So you've never seen endgame yet you're complaining about it. How do you know it's that easy for YOU?

 

WoW is "Fisher-Price"? Really? I hardly find wiping on a boss on hardmodes 500 times easy. I'll bet that you never cleared a single piece of content in WoW on HARDMODE while that content was still considered fresh or new.

 

You can't say much because you have ZERO experience with end-game anything.

[TheToony]

The irony is everyones holding out for GW2 and it's the most casual MMO i've seen so far. Makes Toon Town online look like Ultima.

[darthjerro]

The irony is everyones holding out for GW2 and it's the most casual MMO i've seen so far. Makes Toon Town online look like Ultima.

 

Im not really waiting for anything, i just wish every flashpoint wasnt an aoe fest.

I honestly hope hard mode flashpoints require brain power

[Forsbacka]

Yes, its very casual. There is nothing HC or serious in endgame Pve or PvP. Leveling is very fast and easy also. But thats what you got to do to appeal to masses.

[darthjerro]

So you've never seen endgame yet you're complaining about it. How do you know it's that easy for YOU?

 

WoW is "Fisher-Price"? Really? I hardly find wiping on a boss on hardmodes 500 times easy. I'll bet that you never cleared a single piece of content in WoW on HARDMODE while that content was still considered fresh or new.

 

You can't say much because you have ZERO experience with end-game anything.

 

Yea because you know what ive raided. Classic example of yet another moron defending a once great game . Mate if wow was still in the bc era, id still be playing it and putting in my 30 + hours every week into it. Bc never had hardmodes, it was one mode, you either did it or u didnt.

Hardmodes, pffft, CRAPOLA.....Im not going to beat encounters on normal and then do them again with the boss having more hitpoints....waste of time.

[darthjerro]

Yes, its very casual. There is nothing HC or serious in endgame Pve or PvP. Leveling is very fast and easy also. But thats what you got to do to appeal to masses.

 

You know the old saying. The easier something is, the quicker we get bored of it

[Forsbacka]

You know the old saying. The easier something is, the quicker we get bored of it

 

Well im not casual in play times or dont want games to cater to casual players but i just said that most are and they are catering for em. WoW is now very casual, not as much as this but still casual and people got bored.

[MercArcher]

As someone who has downed the hard mode raid bosses I can say that casuals are not going to be able to down the hard/nightmare ops encounters any time soon. Soa on 16 man in hard/nighmare is one of the harder raid encounters in any game I have played. Its not quite on the level of yogg/c'thun/nax, but it is quite difficult. Edited January 4, 2012 by MercArcher

[Sinvx]

Ive been loving every minute of it so far and im only lvl 40.

 

On the fleet, everywhere i look there are 50's running around in full epic gear already.

Be it pvp, or pve, its still all ....epic.....

 

I read elsewhere all hardmode raid bosses where already down after 2 weeks.

I know i should only care about my progression, but just hearing that makes me loose a bit of the allure of raiding that i was looking forward too.

 

None of the flashpoints have been any challenge yet, and i asked a few guildies and most said the hardmodes wernt really tat much challenge either.

 

I knew this game was going to be a casual friendly mmo, but i have to ask, is this just a bit "too easy "?

 

I honestly thought warcraft was our fisherprice mmo, raiding for kids but i suppose i cant really say to much as i have no experience with end game tor yet.

 

 

Purple doesn't = the end all be all. I can throw in purple mods in my orange gear, and it's better then 1st tier PvE, and first 2 tiers of PvP gear. Only thing PvP gear gives over the mods I make is expertise. Also wait till you do hardmodes for yourself.

[MercArcher]

Purple doesn't = the end all be all. I can throw in purple mods in my orange gear, and it's better then 1st tier PvE, and first 2 tiers of PvP gear. Only thing PvP gear gives over the mods I make is expertise. Also wait till you do hardmodes for yourself.

 

Hardmodes aren't that difficult, but the enrage timers are quite strict.

[darthjerro]

As someone who has downed the hard mode raid bosses I can say that casuals are not going to be able to down the hard/nightmare ops encounters any time soon. Soa on 16 man in hard/nighmare is one of the harder raid encounters in any game I have played. Its not quite on the level of yogg/c'thun/nax, but it is quite difficult.

 

Thank you, all i needed to know, its actually bolstered my faith up a bit .

[Sanguinal]

Thank you, this is exactly what i meant.

 

Something easy that gets roflstomped within the first few months does not encourage people to come back to and keep playing.

 

What they need is a carrot on a stick.

 

Gear, items etc is the carrot, challenge is the stick.

 

You do realise that carrot on a stick is the preferred method for moving donkeys? That it's very foundation is based upon the donkey being too stupid to realise that it will never reach the carrot because it is, in fact, on the end of a stick attached to it's head?

 

I don't know about you, but I find the idea of being treated like a donkey insulting. That I can be safely milked for subscription money as long as a dazzling prize is dangled in front of my nose on a carefully designed difficulty stick to be a symptom of lazy design.

 

I prefer not too hard, not too easy, but varied content. The gear grind is nothing but manipulation to get the most money with the least effort.

[GalacticKegger]

Power level to 85. Rush to grind heroics. Rush to grind rep. Spend hours studying Tankspot, Youtube, ElitistJerks - then rush to be the first ubergeared toon on your block with an epic item that will get replaced by a quest green 4 hours into the next expansion. Cram end game until every boss is on farm. Rinse & repeat for multiple toons using BoAs so the alts can do the same thing only faster. Rinse and repeat on mutliple servers. Scream for new expansion. Rinse and repeat the entire process only with a new race or class ...

 

WoW has done a fabulous job of conditioning its hardcore faithful into believing everything is a blind power-leveling boss-farming click & go loot pinata that has to be cleared yesterday. Wonder how many of them would stand in the street staring down an oncoming garbage truck because there's no DBM telling them to get out of the way.

 

There is plenty of content, as well as announcements of much more content, to keep this game thriving for years to come - casuals and twitch-quick combat fans alike. For the folks described in the first two paragraphs? Well there would be if they actually played the game instead of beating each other up over bragging rights.

Edited January 4, 2012 by GalacticKegger

[Enako]

im wondering, when will all these wow refugees will either wake up to 'fun' in games, or leave to go back to wow. former may be hard, im guessing latter is 1-3 months' away at most.

 

i expect all this crap about 'hardcoreing' in freaking mmo games will then end in these forums at least.

[Enako]

Power level to 85. Rush to grind heroics. Rush to grind rep. Spend hours studying Tankspot, Youtube, ElitistJerks - then rush to be the first ubergeared toon on your block with an epic item that will get replaced by a quest green 4 hours into the next expansion. Cram end game until every boss is on farm. Rinse & repeat for multiple toons using BoAs so the alts can do the same thing only faster. Rinse and repeat on mutliple servers. Scream for new expansion. Rinse and repeat the entire process only with a new race or class ...

 

WoW has done a fabulous job of conditioning its hardcore faithful into believing everything is a blind power-leveling boss-farming click & go loot pinata that has to be cleared yesterday. Wonder how many of them would stand in the street staring down an oncoming garbage truck because there's no DBM telling them to get out of the way.

 

There is plenty of content, as well as announcements of much more content, to keep this game thriving for years to come - casuals and twitch-quick combat fans alike. For the folks described in the first two paragraphs? Well there would be if they actually played the game instead of beating each other up over bragging rights.

 

qft.

 

best post in this subject so far. kudos.

 

................

 

and most unfortunately, this kinda summarizes approximately a 2 to 3.5 years period in my gaming history.

Edited January 4, 2012 by Enako

[darthjerro]

im wondering, when will all these wow refugees will either wake up to 'fun' in games, or leave to go back to wow. former may be hard, im guessing latter is 1-3 months' away at most.

 

i expect all this crap about 'hardcoreing' in freaking mmo games will then end in these forums at least.

 

I dont play wow anymore, way to casualised for my likeing.

Tell me this, do you like just rolling your face over the keyboard and aoeing flashpoints down?

Is that your idea of fun? Its not mine. I like to think and actually pretend i have some skills at gaming when doing these flashpoints...

 

Did foundry just before, work rang, i was on the phone for the last half of the flashpoint, im the tank. i had 1 hand, clicked everythign and ran around with my mouse.Killed 2 bosses. ..finished without a hassle in the world..

 

Umm yea........

[Blucryst]

I remember an older MMO where it took months and months of work to reach the end game. I also remember how epic it felt to finally get there.

 

Then the expansions came out and it took almost no time at all. It didn't feel as epic any more.

 

Then it all became about 'end game' content.

 

Then it became a silly game of who had the bigger **** as far as gear went from end game content. Then they made it so everyone could get that gear through a point system. Then the people that worked for it didn't like that but the people that still didn't have that shiny stuff got mad because they were paying for it too. Then it became even easier to get it and then they put things in place so you could see end game content and get lesser versions of the 'end game gear' and people didn't like that either and then it was face rolling and then it was.....

[Calibrie]

It seems that all ToR has to offer, AGAIN, is a loot chase MMO. What is it about loot anyway?

Its like we're all Barbie-dress up fanatics.

I'm disappointed that I don't have anything else to look forward to in this game. Hit 50 and scrounge groups for what? A new belt with +2 better stats and some shiney new graphic.

 

Is this the best talented minds in the gaming industry can come up with? Talent? I don't think so..copy-cat? Yep, all the way through.

 

Getting tired of the same old same old with MMO's. Once the "Oooo, its Star Wars" fades off, what's left? Aliens instead of elves...mumbling short aliens instead of dwarves, and the never ending, "I just need one more piece of gear"......OCD play-style...

 

I agree, but with one important thing in mind. The game is what you make of it. As I stated recently in a previous thread, MMOs are a business and they cater to the biggest audience they can. Yes, every mmo is about "gearing up", because tons of players (the majority) want it that way.

 

Those of us who find it silly (and I'm one of them) have to find other ways to enjoy the game and not be discouraged. I've been a gamer for too long, I've seen trends come and go and I still play games because what I care about "in-game" is usually different than others. I like to immerse myself and take my time, and being a full-time family man and someone with a job that takes up most of my time, I like to spend my free time enjoying myself online.

 

I'm worried that you're just another mmo player who feels entitled to things in an unreasonable way. While I agree with your sentiments, maybe single player games are more your style. MMOs are a rat race, always wanting and needing more as patches create new content. Without that model it's hard to imagine how a business could function.