You Guys DO Realize You're The Minority, Right?

[kharnoss]

That's what the people on the WOW forums said when a vocal minority pointed out the problems in Cata, just look up how many subs WOW lost in cata.

People that care tend to voice their concerns, when they stop doing it something is terribly wrong.

 

But most people just quit if the game, they might not know what they disliked but they just do.

 

I dont think some people on here are familiar with the snowball effect . On that note I like turtles.

[Vihazur]

Well - pretty much all of the people I meet ingame are quite happy with it, despite the occasional flaw here and there.

 

Also, the usually busy General Chat, seems to be filled with people discussing how good SWTOR is. The ocasional hater pops up once in a while too though... but I'd say the vast majority of people I've met (or even read anything they wrote) are quite happy with it...

 

That's the only sample I have to draw from.

 

These forums - if you pay attention too, it's always the same 10 - 20 people going on every thread spewing hate. (it just seems like it's alot of people if you don't pay attention to the poster names)

 

General chat is a vocal minority too, though. Can you imagine how much busier it would be if everyone in the game were speaking up? People are less likely to want to rock the boat in a real-time chat though. People don't want to deal with hostility and arguments in game - you see a lot less controversy all around because of that.

 

 

Most of those players will still quit, though. Same way they quit every WoWpark MMO, since WoW. I'd like to believe that if an MMO were good enough, longevity-wise, and maybe offered something a little more unique in the gameplay, it might hold onto a much higher percentage of them. I'd like to believe it's at least possible, but I don't know, and I really doubt this will be that game.

[Tiaa]

"Over a million gamers worldwide celebrated the holidays in front of their PCs with lightsabers..."

 

http://www.swtor.com/news/%5Bnews-category%5D/20111226

 

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say that yes, subscriptions were not specified. However, as of opening day having 1,000,000 players and only ~10,000 posts in GD per day, that's still not a lot. My point stands.

 

Well first, that quote could mean anything.

 

It could literally mean people were sitting in front of their PCs with lightsabers.

 

But that's another case for Captain Marketing.

 

Forum users comments are not facts now.

 

Because that 10,000 you are using was posted by a forum user I am pretty sure.

 

That number could be more by far or less by far.

[Zebular]

I have been stating for many years, to various game companies, that they need to start implementing IN GAME POLLING (Account Tied) about how players feel about certain features. This would be the only accurate way to poll the populace of a game. Using 3rd party means to do such, you will be missing a great many of consumers in such polling data.

 

As a former member of the MMO Media Industry, I can wholly agree that a forum community is the vocal minority. This has been a known fact by almost any sensible MMO company, yet they still rely on Forums or other 3rd Party methods to poll their populace, which blows my mind.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Zebular

[TheHauntingBard]

And Blizzard is still rich.

 

Sure they are though doesn't take away they lost a lot of subs because of putting their B team on Cata.

But yup WOW is still a giant and for now there isn't any real competition sadly.

[Weezyfb]

Recent Dev post of interest:

 

 

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=897980#edit897980

 

i dont get why people want to rush things. i am not going slowly nor am i speeding. I am at level 29

[Kellias]

General chat is a vocal minority too, though. Can you imagine how much busier it would be if everyone in the game were speaking up? People are less likely to want to rock the boat in a real-time chat though. People don't want to deal with hostility and arguments in game - you see a lot less controversy all around because of that.

 

 

Most of those players will still quit, though. Same way they quit every WoWpark MMO, since WoW. I'd like to believe that if an MMO were good enough, longevity-wise, and maybe offered something a little more unique in the gameplay, it might hold onto a much higher percentage of them. I'd like to believe it's at least possible, but I don't know, and I really doubt this will be that game.

 

Oh don't get me wrong... I too am quite disapointed with the lack of innovation that goes into MMO's.

 

The old "Tab/Target/Spam 1,2,3" is getting quite old. And the first time I got into a speeder on Hutta for fast travel I literally /facepalmed IRL thinking about the old gryphon rides and how Bioware could have at least put a little effort in making it feel different from "that other game" but just didnt bother...

But alas, all things considered, I'm enjoying SWTOR for what it is, and all these hate threads calling it the worst MMO ever made, and saying the sky will fall at the 30 day mark are just.... uncalled for and well... silly

 

It's just getting annoying to deal with all of these, when there could be actual stuff to discuss in the general forums other than full blown exageration from the same people over and over

Edited January 3, 2012 by Kellias

[Scritty]

My activity in the game is irrelevant. I am simply informing this disgruntled portion of the community that they are a disgruntled MINORITY, and to keep that in mind when they voice their criticisms.

 

Yup - many only register in forums if they have a gripe.

I went my first 4 years in WoW without even realising that my Battle.net account was the same account that gave access to the forums.

 

Everything was working fine, so why would I visit the forums and listen to a load of people whining.

 

"This game is going to die - look at all the complaints on this forum"

 

If you add all those with issues up - (there are some people on here posting on many threads multiple times) they account for probably a fraction of 1% of the user base.

 

That doesn't mean the issues don't need to be fixed and features added to make this a AAA game.

 

• Lag clearly does exist for many
  
• Radeon GFX card support seems underwhelming
  
• FPS issues inside (which is odd in itself). I don't have issues with it - but it drops indoors - the exact opposite of what normally happens
  
• GUI is really pretty poor
  
• Queues on some servers - essp for those who joined the game early and put their money where their mouth is months ago needs addressing
  

 

Maybe todays patch will go some way to fixing some of these.

[Goreson]

Listen, really simple: you have to take out a subscription in order to even play the game with the 30 day subscription that comes with it out of the box.

 

You want to bet how many SWTOR gamers (posting here or not, maybe somewhere else) are going to cancel the subscription to be done with the game once the 30 days are up?

 

And frankly, I can quite well understand them!

 

Bugs in game (well, hardly any MMO start was flawless - oh, wait, did someone say DAoC?)

Bad maintenance timing AND overly long maintenance times that are even extended

Bad CS assistance

Being force to commit to the game at first purchase if you subscribe via time card, without a chance to get the money for the card refunded...

 

Of all the growling masses, a good number will be gone after their 30 days are up.

More will follow in the 60 days after.

 

How much will still be left? We'll have to wait and see.

 

But with 10,000 of disgruntled posts each day, no company EVER(!) should consider these customers to be a minority. They should at least show that they look into what the people are complaining about... which BW at this time doesn't really do...

[Tiaa]

I have been stating for many years, to various game companies, that they need to start implementing IN GAME POLLING (Account Tied) about how players feel about certain features. This would be the only accurate way to poll the populace of a game. Using 3rd party means to do such, you will be missing a great many of consumers in such polling data.

 

As a former member of the MMO Media Industry, I can wholly agree that a forum community is the vocal minority. This has been a known fact by almost any sensible MMO company, yet they still rely on Forums or other 3rd Party methods to poll their populace, which blows my mind.

 

" a former member of the MMO Media Industry".

 

Way to impress us with your credentials there tiger.

[Zebular]

" a former member of the MMO Media Industry".

 

Way to impress us with your credentials there tiger.

 

I wasn't trying to impress. Nice trolling there, though.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Zebular

[Dantistas]

This is what biodrones actually believe.

[biere]

A game doesnt start at max level. It start the second you hit the play button and you create your characters.

 

If you dont understand that its sad for you.

 

As the three courses meal seem to be popular i will continu on it :

 

You take a three courses meal and ask directly for the dessert and eat only that and then say that the whole meal sucked.

 

The game have problems, granted. But its just launch. No MMO was perfect at launch. No MMO is ever finished.

 

Yes they need to address a lot of problems but they deserve some times to figure out where the problem is and how to fix it.

[Serad]

Even if the forum community is a minority, there's probably sense in saying that they are often the pioneers of these games. In business/marketing sense: if the pioneers of a game are so negative about it, this relatively small group can still cause the followers (the majority) to be put off. This can result in them (the majority!) not ever buying the game which is pretty much the road to failure for a MMO.

 

Conclusion: small group of 'important' pioneers can have a massive effect on the majority possessing most of the $$$.

 

I haven't done any extensive research into this, but it doesn't seem unreasonable to say that this might be why so many MMO's released in the past few yrs have failed. At launch, they were often in relatively bad state (compared to the market's standard which shall not be named). At the same time, all pre-order/launch customers are these pioneers. Bad shape at launch > pioneers unhappy > preventing the mainstream from ever being attracted to the game > 'failure'.

[Vihazur]

I have been stating for many years, to various game companies, that they need to start implementing IN GAME POLLING (Account Tied) about how players feel about certain features. This would be the only accurate way to poll the populace of a game. Using 3rd party means to do such, you will be missing a great many of consumers in such polling data.

 

As a former member of the MMO Media Industry, I can wholly agree that a forum community is the vocal minority. This has been a known fact by almost any sensible MMO company, yet they still rely on Forums or other 3rd Party methods to poll their populace, which blows my mind.

 

 

Another problem with popular opinion is how suddenly it changes. I've seen fanboys convert to haters overnight, just because they grew bored of a game. I suspect that lots of "average" players like a game, up until they decide to quit, which would be confusing for any sort of polling system. People who do that aren't thinking about longevity, or what will keep them playing. They're happily playing, and then happily quit. They don't hate the game or anything, just one day, don't feel like logging in, and something else catches their attention.

 

 

You'll see lots of single-player games that get high rating from players, even if those players only enjoyed it for a single day. For a lot of people, that's all that matters. They enjoy the game when they first get started with it, and they rate it accordingly. Then a month later, the game is in bargain bins, because those aggregate ratings were misleading.

 

 

I'm not saying popular opinion doesn't matter, but good development (and marketting) needs to think way beyond what the average gamer is thinking about.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Vihazur

[TheHauntingBard]

The people on the forum are your media, this is not the only place people talk about the games ups and downs.

Difference is these discussions are being done on game forums with a mod that doesn't allow flaming, it's pointless to write something constructive on this forum.

 

Some review side might not mention how atrocious the customer service is and that the EU maintenance can easily reach up to 20:00.

Neither will they say that the game is plagued by bugs and lacks basic features.

It's nothing new, sites like IGN and gamespot tend to ignore some things.

 

 

 

But the truth is this spreads around the web pretty easily on game forums/blogs and what not and these communities have a bigger impact on your sells than IGN has.

When I look around the bigger sites and blogs and read the posts, I notice that they don't flame the game but they do address these issues.

 

 

Best way to describe it all is , great story but an average MMO that lacks features.

That's what people read and that's what SWTOR is.

Edited January 3, 2012 by TheHauntingBard

[Tronics]

Hello all,

 

Firstly MMO's are just a game,product,software when you as a customer buy a game,product,software you expect it to work and have a full 30 day FREE subscription which is advertised without problems.

 

That being said the gaming industry has gotten worse over the years and are putting out sub standard games which are not fully playable by all the customers that have got this game. And it's not fair on anyone that they spend hard earned cash on something that crashes every 5 or 10 mins and they loose out on their 30 day free gameplay, regardless of this being a new mmo, it should have had a lot longer beta test and have been made alot more stable for everyone in the comunity to play on an even basis.

 

This is not the case for many people, again I'm not talking about cosmetic issues and how the game plays for most people who complain about game content, it's about everyone being able to play for long periods of time without game issues not causing peoples pc's to reboot and so on. That is the priorities that I think about, Not cosmetic issues which can be ajusted later. For many people they have good decent pc's and laptops and have spent alot of money on them, so people expect game,product,software to work on release, is that too much to ask. Why are game companies not held responsible like any other retail outlet when a products do not work correctly when sold to any customer?

 

Yes it's great that games can befixed in the long run, but when buying something, I expect it to be playable and not have to wait weeks for it to run correctly. I also dislike the fact how many people blame peoples pc's/laptops for these issues then people spend days or weeks trying to ajust hardware or software to get these games working, then the companies while sat back and let this happen, release a patch which fixes everything. But as always put the owness on the buyer as in, it's not the game it's your computer. These are the things that frustrate customers, if games were playable on release, then the majority of complaints wouldn't be as bad.

 

May the force be with you:D

[ElementalCrisis]

I cant wait till February 1st, by then all the doombringers who've "canceled" their subscription will be gone and maybe I'll be able to read the forums without seeing the same 10 or so people post about how SWTOR is dying and wont last a year.

[TheHauntingBard]

I cant wait till February 1st, by then all the doombringers who've "canceled" their subscription will be gone and maybe I'll be able to read the forums without seeing the same 10 or so people post about how SWTOR is dying and wont last a year.

 

Just like all those other MMO's where people said ' this is the new best thing it needs doesn't need any fixes or changes' we all know how that went.

People not subbing is bad for the game,a company releasing a game with issues and not being snappy when it comes to fixing them is bad for the subs.

[Cameirus]

Seriously, if EVERYONE in this forum unsubbed, it'd be just a small dent. Historically, very small portions of the community post on the game forums.

 

So please do not assume you represent the majority of players in this game.

 

I dont.

 

 

but the silent majority dont get a say, literally!

[Quaade]

I cant wait till February 1st, by then all the doombringers who've "canceled" their subscription will be gone and maybe I'll be able to read the forums without seeing the same 10 or so people post about how SWTOR is dying and wont last a year.

 

Then it will just be a new round of people who have become disillusioned as the illusions of this game are quite easy to break and who knows, in the end it might be you who will voice the very same things we are.

 

In that case will you enjoy being flamed or met with the same kind of replies you are giving out here?

Or will you start your post with the ironic "I'm not a hater, please hear me out" as I've observed a few people doing?

 

This complete lack of empathy for other peoples situation is what will ruin any kind of community because in the end when you have noone to attack against you will devour each other.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Quaade

[Lethality]

Seriously, if EVERYONE in this forum unsubbed, it'd be just a small dent. Historically, very small portions of the community post on the game forums.

 

So please do not assume you represent the majority of players in this game.

 

The best dev quote I've ever heard is from Blizzard, where they said something to the effect of "if the players perceive it's broken, then it's broken." Sad as that is.

 

So while it may seem like the complaining is coming from a small group of users, trends are trends and scale with numbers. It's not something to be ignored as these players could influence larger groups.

 

And not everything is completely invalid, but most have fallen into the trap of realizing it's too much/not enough like game X.

[Conundrum-NSA]

i dont get why people want to rush things. i am not going slowly nor am i speeding. I am at level 29

 

Is it me, or did the dev admit the endgame is unfinished?

[Conundrum-NSA]

" a former member of the MMO Media Industry".

 

Way to impress us with your credentials there tiger.

 

LOL...I guess I'll bug you too, a friend of mine is a VERY high up person at one of the major MMO networks, his prediction...TOR will end up with about 400k to 600k subs when the dust settles.

 

No, I'm not saying who or where. Of course I know you will just assume I'm a liar.

[PANZERBUNNY]

Only drones listen to forum chatter or "word of mouth" without trying it themselves.

 

If that were the case I would have never tried Darkfall or enjoyed it as much as I did.