Faction Ratios = a problem

[Yfelsung]

Why is everyone /who'ing

 

Left top corner says exactly how many players there are @ the same spot as you are ;p

And I haven't seen it bugged yet.

 

How would you know if it's bugged without the ability to physically count all the people in the instance?

 

That's all I'm saying. People need to rely less on "personal experience" or "what they see" and need to focus on what they can prove/confirm.

 

If we applied that to all aspects of life, we'd live in a much saner place.

[Caldric]

Only thing that can be done is give incentive to play on the weaker faction. This has always been a problem with MMO's since DAOC and never really been fixed.

[Auxili]

Just a small point:

 

The guild window doesn't show the right amount of people.

 

The LFG tool doesn't show the right amount of people.

 

Most player lists in the game are broken.

 

I wouldn't put too much stock in doing /who and going by those numbers.

 

I'm not saying there's no imbalance, I don't have metrics one way or the other, but that's the problem, none of us do.

 

I haven't been using either of those tools. I've been doing detailed /who searches to get a more unarguably factual reading. Not to mention zone populations are always correct, and the fleet is a perfect indicator for the server balance.

And I always take a close look at the results to make sure its not sending me garbage, like a level 5 when I /who 50.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Auxili

[Yfelsung]

I haven't been using either of those tools. I've been doing detailed /who searches to get a more unarguably factual reading. Not to mention zone populations are always correct, and the fleet is a perfect indicator for the server balance.

 

But it's not a perfect one.

 

You can't see who;s loading in or loading out.

 

You can't see who's in PvP warzones.

 

The only way we'll know true faction numbers is if/when Bioware releases them.

 

Everything else is still anecdotal evidence. It may be gathered with a balanced approach but because the methodology of the gathering technique is not flawless, it could be wrong.

 

There could be reasons, for example, why Rep players avoid their own capital

 

Or Empire players could be more Warzone centric, so more of us are sitting in the fleet waiting in queue.

 

We have no way to accurately figuring out faction numbers.

[TheMove]

I spent a whole day counting the servers a week ago. The TC is right. I found one server that was like 60% empire and 40 % republic but the last week it got alot worse.

 

Its about 3:1 Empire over republic or way worse on every server.

 

Alot of things factor into this. Empire is better in almost everyway. For a example look at BHs over Troopers. Death from above is awesome. Troopers have the same move where they stay on the ground and it has a delay. Some other abaility are broken as well. So its more than dark and light.

 

To be honest if I worked for Bioware my solution to fix the factions would be to release a yoda race on republic to even things out. Its the only solution.

[FuryNL]

How would you know if it's bugged without the ability to physically count all the people in the instance?

 

That's all I'm saying. People need to rely less on "personal experience" or "what they see" and need to focus on what they can prove/confirm.

 

If we applied that to all aspects of life, we'd live in a much saner place.

 

Well. If ord mantell says 20 ppl, I usually ineed won't meet more than 15 of em tops if I'm lucky. Yet, when Imperial fleet says 250+ I can't walk a single inch without bumping into 2 or more people ;p

 

It's not precise, but globally? Sketches quite a nice image of general population...

[Auxili]

On jung ma I've done the following 'level 50 search' on the empire side:

 

/who 50

result: 100+

 

Try to narrow it down:

 

/who 50 fleet

result: 90+ (sometimes capping at 100)

 

 

 

on the republic side:

 

/who 50

result: 97

 

/who 50 fleet

result: 29

 

 

 

 

There are 140~ people currently in the fleet.

 

 

And this is on Jung Ma, and rp-pvp server which has more republic players than a typical pvp server.

 

I've been doing these searches for the past 4 days (been deciding on a server while working on other stuff at home). Results have bee consistent, aside from the few servers which show a clear 4-5:1 ratio.

 

 

Or you can just ignore the numbers and play the game, in order to notice the huge imbalance first-hand without having to use statistics like I am. End result is the same factual reality.

 

Not to mention the obvious fact that empire plays huttball constantly due to there being so many more of them proves the hypothesis on its own.

If you want to be a skeptic for the sake of it, that's cool. But I urge you to accept reality.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Auxili

[arrionw]

The factions are pretty close to even on my server...but it's a PVE server. Part of the problem is there's a ton of overlap between people who prefer PVP servers and people who prefer to play the "bad guys". I remember WoW launch was the opposite. PVE servers were ridiculously imbalanced in favor of Alliance, and PVP servers much closer to even, and even Horde favored in a few cases. If badly imbalanced factions bothers you a lot, you're probably better off playing on a PVE server. It's not like there's much opportunity for open world PVP in this game anyway.

[Apollonel]

republic has ugly gear? really?

 

have you seen the SI lvl 50 gear? worst i've seen in any game (except WoW, it beats all on ugliness)

or havent u seen the robocop suit of the warrior? lol.

 

i like it as it is though.

 

instant queues, and warzones rotating regularly, not stuck with huttball.

[Kiyoko-]

Faction ratios on any pvp server is at least 3:1, favouring the empire.

 

I don't see this as surprising for PVP servers.

 

Say a person is one or more of the following:

 

* Likes PVP and competition, and does well at it

* Likes ganking lower level players

* Is an aggressive personality type

* Gets satisfaction and empowerment from killing and mocking other players

* Gets accomplishment and self identity from gaming skill and feats

* Doesn't like or resents "normal" RL society or something that resembles it

 

Which side will they heavily be drawn to? Really, what's their only choice possibly going to be?

 

(I'm definitely *NOT* saying these are the only or main reasons to play Imperial.)

 

It's just common sense. PVPers are going to very disproportionately like Empire and scorn Republic. There's no way to change that, it's the nature of the crowd. I don't think you can make people go against their grain and like a different faction with some minor incentives.

 

So I'm sure there is an imbalance on PVP servers, and it was totally predictable. To help Imperial PVPers, they need to simply allow Voidstar and Alderan to be Imperial vs Imperial. No real reason not to, and should have been that way from the start.

 

Games with two factions always end up generic-izing content so that both sides can play it any way. It is too expensive to develop content that can't be used by both sides. So make the battlegrounds work for both sides. I'm sure the Sith and Imperial warlords have lots of infighting anyway.

[Auxili]

I don't see this as surprising for PVP servers.

 

Say a person is one or more of the following:

 

* Likes PVP and competition, and does well at it

* Likes ganking lower level players

* Is an aggressive personality type

* Gets satisfaction and empowerment from killing and mocking other players

* Gets accomplishment and self identity from gaming skill and feats

* Doesn't like or resents "normal" RL society or something that resembles it

 

Which side will they heavily be drawn to? Really, what's their only choice possibly going to be?

 

(I'm definitely *NOT* saying these are the only or main reasons to play Imperial.)

 

It's just common sense. PVPers are going to very disproportionately like Empire and scorn Republic. There's no way to change that, it's the nature of the crowd. I don't think you can make people go against their grain and like a different faction with some minor incentives.

 

So I'm sure there is an imbalance on PVP servers, and it was totally predictable. To help Imperial PVPers, they need to simply allow Voidstar and Alderan to be Imperial vs Imperial. No real reason not to, and should have been that way from the start.

 

Games with two factions always end up generic-izing content so that both sides can play it any way. It is too expensive to develop content that can't be used by both sides. So make the battlegrounds work for both sides. I'm sure the Sith and Imperial warlords have lots of infighting anyway.

 

This can, however, outright kill world pvp, which is ALWAYS better than warzones/battlegrounds when the developer actually gives a crap about implementing it.

 

Bioware is showing they don't care about world pvp, but this could change. I'd much rather have world pvp than warzones, and I think everybody agrees. But in WoW wpvp was ignored (which is why everyone thinks wpvp=ganking).

 

Games that do wpvp right are amazing. Bioware would be foolish to ignore it in favour of warzones.

[Unaki]

Bioware can't fix the lemmings. They can't control where players play.

[Auxili]

Bioware can't fix the lemmings. They can't control where players play.

 

I know many people who change to an empire version of a class just for aesthetics and story. For example, the agent story causes many to choose it over the smuggler (+ the better look, the blade attacks, better healing animations, and so forth).

Many would say the bounty hunter is also cooler in the animations/looks department, and it's got the best companion set in the game imo.

 

It's about design, not allegiance.

I would roll a republic agent or republic BH if I could, but these aren't options. So, if I want to play these stories, their voice actor (<3 agent), or their aesthetics, I have to roll the empire side.

(likewise for republic classes, but hardly anyone seems to claim the trooper or smuggler are more well designed than the BH and Agent)

 

 

Trooper is as generic a class can get, imo. I love it but dang it's generic. Agent storywise, and BH animationwise, as definitely very unique. The devs put a lot of work into their design.

Meanwhile many players, including me, seem to agree the smuggler story, while entertaining, is relatively light and saturday-morning-cartoon-ish.

 

 

The reason I brought these things up is because they have nothing to do with the 'good side' and 'bad side' paradigm. It's just a matter of attention to detail and uniqueness, and many would agree the imperial side has more of that in regards to aesthetics and story.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Auxili

[Fatespuppet]

If you really want to see the numbers balance, then make the server queues faction based. dark side Q = 2 hours, light side = no wait Things would balance very quickly.

[AdmiralOnasi]

The reason the ratio is as bad as it is partly rests with BioWare. Empire was pimped ENDLESSLY during development.

[Ronamo]

Again, the article in no way derails the thread, you just don't like what is in it. Lol....

 

Oh, and on PvP servers?? Oh well....

 

The article in no way, shape, form, or fashion indicates any balance whatsoever.

 

I have 150 red marbles, and I have 120 blue marbles, and I have 5 cups.

 

If I place 40 red marbles in each of three cups, with the remaining thirty spread across the last two cups, and I place 24 blue marbles in each cup, I still have cups that look like this:

 

Cup 1: 40r / 24b

Cup 2: 40r / 24b

Cup 3: 40r / 24b

Cup 4: 15r / 24b

Cup 5: 15r / 24b

 

Now, replace "red marbles" with "Empire players," "blue marbles" with "Republic players," and "cups" with "Servers."

 

See where that gets you? Here's a hint: You end up in that magical land of logic where the total number of characters created can be completely equal, or at least relatively similar, but their distributions can still be every bit as skewed as the OP is suggesting.

[SaltAU]

I predicted this about 3 months before launch, mentioned it in the forums and saw a heap of "Nah it'll be fine". Hate to say I told you so. Empire were always going to be massively favoured.

[Auxili]

Empire were always going to be massively favoured.

 

Arguably by both players and Bioware.

 

I'm kidding of course

[discosoc]

I'd like to know what the light side/ dark side breakdown is for each faction. I play Republic and pretty much everyone goes light side. Do most Empire players go dark side, or are there actually people playing "good guys" there?

[Kiyoko-]

This can, however, outright kill world pvp, which is ALWAYS better than warzones/battlegrounds when the developer actually gives a crap about implementing it.

 

Bioware is showing they don't care about world pvp, but this could change. I'd much rather have world pvp than warzones, and I think everybody agrees. But in WoW wpvp was ignored (which is why everyone thinks wpvp=ganking).

 

Games that do wpvp right are amazing. Bioware would be foolish to ignore it in favour of warzones.

 

World PVP? Yes, like you say everyone thinks world pvp=ganking. Because, well, world pvp = ganking. I do remember actual land battles that were neat, but that was long ago.

 

World PVP is pretty much dead as an MMO idea, to my (limited) knowledge. Faction imbalance didn't kill world PVP. These things killed world PVP:

* Battlegrounds

* Change in MMOs over time, in what players expect and will put up with.

* The sheer awfulness of what world PVP is. Surprising someone who is lower level and has no chance. From either end, that experience can please remain dead and buried in the early 2000s where it belongs.

 

And people who like ganking will almost all be drawn to the Empire. So you'll have a bunch of hunters and no prey on PVP servers. Who wants to be prey?

 

But maybe I am wrong. Maybe there is a great world PVP experience I do not know about. Ok. How does that change anything? It just moves the faction imbalance problem from the battlegrounds to the world map. The imbalance exists because of the stuff I listed in my first post. Encouraging world PVP does not change those things.

 

What incentive is going to draw PVPers / gankers to play the "good guys" / prey? Better Republic costumes at 50 won't do it. They mostly all want to be the dark edgy black-clothed killer who is angry at society and shows how dominating he is by killing people. They don't want to be the nice wimpy good guys. Nothing is going to change that.

 

The best that could be done is allow battlegrounds to have same-faction battles. World PVP remains dead / the ganking experience, but that's no different than how it is now.

 

I'm not trying to argue or be mean. I'm just saying most PVPers will want to be Empire, so you have to start from there, and solve problems from there. Wishing they'd just join Republic, or trying to bribe them to somehow, is less likely to be successful.

 

Maybe if you had two evil factions, both with intimidating costumes! That would do it.

[FuryNL]

Bump because of being outnumbered 4:1

[VicSkimmr]

At least on pvp servers, there is a very real imbalance.

 

Edit: But I think in time, it will even out as more empire players decide to roll republic alts.

Edited January 3, 2012 by VicSkimmr

[ihateyouall]

241 people on imperial fleet... 65 people on republic fleet...

 

I see no problem !!! lololololololol

[Alohen]

Yeah I play Republic on Frostclaw Server, and Empire has to Queue for ages I hear and most of the Time they are put in Huttball AGAINST eachother. I find that, prime luls.

[Truga]

The whole "Choose your faction before you even create character" concept is dumb anyway. You're supposed to meet people, group up, and then decide whether to join their faction or not.