Trungalung Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 So in a ST/Pyro hybrid build with Jet Charge and Prototype Particle Accelerator, what are the relative merits of 2 points in Puncture, Prototype Burn Enhancers, or Flame Surge? 60% armor piercing on Rail Shot, versus 6% crit chance on all fire effects, versus 30% surge on Rocket Punch. I'm leaning toward Flame Surge but not strongly. Thoughts? Depend on your gears actually. If you're running with lower crit, Flame Surge is better since it already has an extra 30% crit from talent. The talents will be better for people with tanking gears. Puncture is for players running DPS gears with high crit chance (puncture will be significant better once you obtain 4p Elimninator). The 6% to fire crit is worthless since it only helps Flame Burst and Incindiery Missile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DinesenDK Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Nice thread to read, but can't help thinking when Adv. P will be mentioned as being PVP-valid and why - Yep, I got trouble making it work. My issue is this: I need to get up close and personal, but I'm more squishy then a ST if i Run the HEC. So whats the trick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zuesy Posted January 3, 2012 Author Share Posted January 3, 2012 Thanks for all the builds and advice guys Looks like ill be rolling with the 21-2-18 spec as it seems pretty good all round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trungalung Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Okay so I just went back and try out deep Pyro again. The spec damage is incredibly strong. The survivability is lower comparing to ST/Pyro, it is to be expected as a trade off for a higher damage output. This spec worked wonder for me on Void Star and Alderaan (Huttball is a pain in the *** since you keep getting knocked off the ledge). To improve the survivability, positioning is much more crucial since you can't take as much damage or escape from a bunch of angry Republics (Jet Charge away from the group as ST/Pyro). If you like big damage and big numbers, definitely choose Pyro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAcuteAngle Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Depend on your gears actually. If you're running with lower crit, Flame Surge is better since it already has an extra 30% crit from talent. The talents will be better for people with tanking gears. Puncture is for players running DPS gears with high crit chance (puncture will be significant better once you obtain 4p Elimninator). The 6% to fire crit is worthless since it only helps Flame Burst and Incindiery Missile. Define "low" crit chance. I'm only 46 and I have a 15% crit chance w/ a 54% multiplier, though I intend to get the Combat Tech gear when I hit 50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trungalung Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) Define "low" crit chance. I'm only 46 and I have a 15% crit chance w/ a 54% multiplier, though I intend to get the Combat Tech gear when I hit 50. In my opinion, you'll want crit around 20% with 70% surge which is easy at 50 in dps gears. I would recommend Eliminator over Combat Tech if you're running DPS gears. 15% crit of Rail Shot combining with buff will give you 40% crit chance. Combat Tech gives 15% crit on RP which is a total overkill for me since I already have 55% crit chance with it. However, Combat Tech gears is better to switch around since it's good for all spec. Edited January 3, 2012 by Trungalung Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAcuteAngle Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Yeah, I think I need a jack of all trades set. Isn't the Eliminator Merc gear anyways? If it's not, then what the hell is Jet Boost, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trungalung Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Yeah, I think I need a jack of all trades set. Isn't the Eliminator Merc gear anyways? If it's not, then what the hell is Jet Boost, lol Ya, it's a merc gears. The 2pc is worthless since we don't have that skill, but 15% crit to rail shot makes up for everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAcuteAngle Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Why is the 15% of Rail Shot worth more than the 15% Rocket Punch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trungalung Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 A crit Rail Shot talented into Puncture does more damage than Rocket Punch. It's more available thanks to PPA. And Rocket Punch already have a high crit chance (55% for me). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAcuteAngle Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Alright. What if you took Flame Surge over Puncture though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trungalung Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) Well, Combat Tech or even Super Commando can fit well with Flame Surge. Edited January 3, 2012 by Trungalung Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAcuteAngle Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Hmm. Alright. Because I was looking into somewhat of a balance, Like pickup up Combat Tech and Puncture, because of how far into the ST tree we are, We don't have quite as many nukes (such as TD). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guntsu Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) Nice thread to read, but can't help thinking when Adv. P will be mentioned as being PVP-valid and why - Yep, I got trouble making it work. My issue is this: I need to get up close and personal, but I'm more squishy then a ST if i Run the HEC. So whats the trick? Adv P has 3 main issues - No snare, which stinks since its so meele heavy...you get the 15% run speed but it really does not help. -Damage stinks its just no where neer as good as pyro since there are so many modifiers for rail shot. - You have to be meele 90% of the time to pull of a decent rotation withouth having much survavibility to show for it. The only thing I love from Adv P. is its ability to manage heat...you run into no issues with heat using this spec. Edited January 4, 2012 by Guntsu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthNofu Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Trungalung, what rotation do you use? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trungalung Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) No rotation, it's a priority system. Engage with your Incendiary Missile into a Rail Shot then RP. After that it's just hit Rail Shot and RP as they finish their cd/refreshed and use Flame Burst/Rapid Fire as filler in between depend on your heat. Try to use PPA proc'ed Rail Shot before RP. A few post back Chainsamurai explained this in detail. If you need a far range slow, use Rapid Fire or use RP for a melee range slow. Edited January 4, 2012 by Trungalung Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oogablog Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I am also a Lvl 14 BH PT and i don't know what to go for so I built these two test I like PVP and i'm more in-favor of DPS but I also want some protection just please help me out. DPS build one http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301hM0MZMsrboZbIbrzG0z.1 Armor Dps http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#301dRMrdorZMsr0Rrc0z.1 Thanks all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agroovesak Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Adv P has 3 main issues - No snare, which stinks since its so meele heavy...you get the 15% run speed but it really does not help. -Damage stinks its just no where neer as good as pyro since there are so many modifiers for rail shot. - You have to be meele 90% of the time to pull of a decent rotation withouth having much survavibility to show for it. The only thing I love from Adv P. is its ability to manage heat...you run into no issues with heat using this spec. I would disagree with issue 2. Damage is quite good, it just isn't in 2 big numbers like pyro. You also can't really RNG people down like pyro can but you do get more consistent damage that also bypasses armor. This is especially true if you get decent at using flamethrower. (Not as hard as it sounds against most melee and mercs/snipers.) I don't really notice the lack of snare much, but the lack of jet charge really blows in huttball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chainsawsamurai Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I would disagree with issue 2. Damage is quite good, it just isn't in 2 big numbers like pyro. You also can't really RNG people down like pyro can but you do get more consistent damage that also bypasses armor. This is especially true if you get decent at using flamethrower. (Not as hard as it sounds against most melee and mercs/snipers.) I don't really notice the lack of snare much, but the lack of jet charge really blows in huttball. Lack of Jet Charge blows everywhere. Flamethrower is hit or miss, it seems like it doesn't take a heck of a lot of latency at all to make it virtually useless. When it does work, it's awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agroovesak Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Lack of Jet Charge blows everywhere. Flamethrower is hit or miss, it seems like it doesn't take a heck of a lot of latency at all to make it virtually useless. When it does work, it's awesome. I don't really miss jet charge in Ald, VS, or world pvp since I don't really need it as a gap closer unless they are above me with no good pathing like in huttball. I usually have 20-50ms so I'm sure that helps flamethrower aiming. Fully charged AP flamethrower is probably the hardest hitting move we have. Especially since you can hit multiple players with it. Ironically great in huttball for those dogpiles in front of fires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DynamiteHeart Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I was originally going to go with a 21/16/2 build grabbing survivability skills in the ST tree and focusing on Retractable Blade, Rocket Punch, and Rail Shot. However looking at the ST/Pyro hybrid build, it seems pretty good. Certainly it's annoying you have to take those CGC skills, but there is no doubt that Rocket Punch and Rail Shot are my two main damage abilities and the spec optimizes those about as much as you can. How do you gear for this spec? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dardack Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I was originally going to go with a 21/16/2 build grabbing survivability skills in the ST tree and focusing on Retractable Blade, Rocket Punch, and Rail Shot. However looking at the ST/Pyro hybrid build, it seems pretty good. Certainly it's annoying you have to take those CGC skills, but there is no doubt that Rocket Punch and Rail Shot are my two main damage abilities and the spec optimizes those about as much as you can. How do you gear for this spec? My plan, and I haven't gotten enough RNG in my bags yet, is to get enough SupperCommando pieces to rip the Mods out of to place in the Elim set. This way I have tanking stats with the 4 pc of elim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbitofdoom Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 Hmm. Alright. Because I was looking into somewhat of a balance, Like pickup up Combat Tech and Puncture, because of how far into the ST tree we are, We don't have quite as many nukes (such as TD). I have 2/3 on puncture and max flame surge. My rocket fist crit hits for about same damage as rail crit. It evens out due to 100% chance on ion. On high armor targets rail crits are slightly higer. Surge helps a bit in group fights. Like on doors in void or huttball carrier stacks. Crits at least in my current not very good gear are not very high but they start to add up fast in puting presure on healers because peoples will not disperse like when you use death from above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chainsawsamurai Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 I was originally going to go with a 21/16/2 build grabbing survivability skills in the ST tree and focusing on Retractable Blade, Rocket Punch, and Rail Shot. However looking at the ST/Pyro hybrid build, it seems pretty good. Certainly it's annoying you have to take those CGC skills, but there is no doubt that Rocket Punch and Rail Shot are my two main damage abilities and the spec optimizes those about as much as you can. How do you gear for this spec? The absolute best part about the ST/Pyro spec is that it feels like 2 specs in one. I've tried it will full tank gear and been nigh-unkillable. I've done it with full DPS gear and been sturdy and mobile while putting out consistent, reliable damage. You're still sturdy enough to run a Huttball with full DPS gear, what you really miss out on is Guard. You get a lot more mileage out of Guard in tankier gear. I don't think I'd try mixing the gear since it takes a considerable investment to make your damage or survivability noticeably better. Due to how much of a pain it can be to get PvP gear (damn bags gave me a pistol and then nothing but commendations so far, I'm pissed) you're going to have to choose one or the other most likely. I'd really like 2 sets of gear, but I don't know if it will be worth the time investment unless my damn bags start paying out better. I guess the bright side about my bags only cashing out commendations is that I really don't have to make up my mind just yet. I'm just stacking the silly *** things up and haven't bothered picking up anything but the Pistol I got from the token (I got the Acc/Power one if anyone is curious, seems like out of the choices it would work better with both gear types). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trungalung Posted January 4, 2012 Share Posted January 4, 2012 The absolute best part about the ST/Pyro spec is that it feels like 2 specs in one. I've tried it will full tank gear and been nigh-unkillable. I've done it with full DPS gear and been sturdy and mobile while putting out consistent, reliable damage. You're still sturdy enough to run a Huttball with full DPS gear, what you really miss out on is Guard. You get a lot more mileage out of Guard in tankier gear. I don't think I'd try mixing the gear since it takes a considerable investment to make your damage or survivability noticeably better. Due to how much of a pain it can be to get PvP gear (damn bags gave me a pistol and then nothing but commendations so far, I'm pissed) you're going to have to choose one or the other most likely. I'd really like 2 sets of gear, but I don't know if it will be worth the time investment unless my damn bags start paying out better. I guess the bright side about my bags only cashing out commendations is that I really don't have to make up my mind just yet. I'm just stacking the silly *** things up and haven't bothered picking up anything but the Pistol I got from the token (I got the Acc/Power one if anyone is curious, seems like out of the choices it would work better with both gear types). Damn it sucks...I got like the best luck ever. I dinged 50 for like a week now and already in almost full champion except for the centurion leg and modded epic boot just because of my luck. Currently working on the tank gears but it seems that the luck has reverted since I only get commendation for like two days straight now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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