Adam_Nox Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 People complaining about being reprimanded for exploiting a oversight and blaming it on poor design need to move on to another game or deal with what the administration deems as bannable- you wont be missed, trust me. Is the fact that they wouldn't be missed the reason why they should leave, or are you retarded? You must pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phadian_gess Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I'm watching a level 15 player on Ilum right now clicking on a chest as soon as it pops up. There are level 50 enemies RIGHT BESIDE HIM and he's not even being attacked. He doesn't respond to tells either so its clear he's botting. BioWare needs to take more action rather than a simple suspension. clearly this is probably what the accounts in question that the dev mentioned are doing. people need to stop acting like excuse my lack of other analogies your stereotypical hippy from the 60's saying the man is out to get me. the man in this case being bioware and not law enforcement. Clearly these guys were botting and they got caught and one of them is trying to cover his tracks and make bioware out to be the bad guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackfriar Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 You will not ever be able to control the economy in an MMO. It is a living thing and banning people for making too much money is only going to alienate some of your player base. Planned economies don't work in real life and they don't work in MMOs. It's not a planned economy, it's a REGULATED economy. And regulated economies are the only ones that work. Otherwise you get a Libertarian paradise, like Somalia... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
isialisa Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 A lot of people don't get what that guy said about banning accounts, gold seller or in this case credit farmers use addons to exploit the game and can farm faster then the normal player, they are bots on auto farm, its good they are getting rid of them that way you won't have to spend all day farming and not really get anything because the farm bots to them, atleast I haven't seen multi-boxing in pvp yet I hope they ban them to so real player can play the game right without cheating and exploiting and buying credits because you don't wanna farm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquiraj Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Shouldn't things like that be popping up in random places anyway? Kind of like Arch Mats...I have run a certain area so much on quests, that I know exactly where they will be on my map. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kloud_Almasy Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Simple...... Put a 24 hour lock on the damn things just like repeatable quests.. That way everyone has the same time frame to loot things & there would be no point in perma camping it. Totally balanceable for everyone involved. No more issues... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master-Nala Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I still believe the customers should not be responsible for how to make the game economy work, the devs should be able to prevent this sort of stuff. Looting should never be an issue as they have full control of how much content is dropped by containers and mobs. You want to cheat, you take your chances. MMORPGs are incredibly complicated games. No human being can be prescient enough to deal with every scenario that could cause problems. They tell you in the EULA, exploiting is cheating. Just because the computer program allows the behavior doesn't mean its within the rules. Hence the reason that line is in the EULA in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roast-Beast Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I can't believe how many people are trying to stand up for the credit farmers. I cannot comprehend this many people missing the point, so.... Either everyone is trolling, or everyone is a customer of these credit farmers. Or possibly they are credit farmers themselves and are trying to preemptively restrict bioware from taking action against their account. This has nothing to do with a free or planned economy. However you decide to play, even if you want to farm all day - bioware with there "extensive metrics" will most likely be able to tell you are playing yourself. If you set a bot to credit/chest farm while you sleep, or go out for pizza, or whatever it is credit farmers do then bioware can detect abnormal -- inhumanilke -- activity. Want a prime example of what will happen when botting and farming is legal? Diablo 2. level 90+'s on the first night of a ladder reset? Items selling for full character of SoJ's or full inventory of HR's. If you haven't played Diablo 2 and don't understand the reference then I am sorry, but suffice to say -> bad things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erasimus Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I'm not sure why anyone is upset with the proactive stance Bioware is taking toward credit farming/exploits. Playing the game won't get anyone banned, abusing the game mechanics for personal gain (whether a credit farmer or not) should result in a ban/suspension. I've played WoW for 7 years and there have been constant issues with farming/exploits/botting etc. They are constantly implementing new controls and are still behind the curve. Blizzard does ban exploiters, heck they've banned/suspended entire guilds for using exploits. I can remember simply having to avoid some areas I would have liked to farm a bit because there were so many bots normal players didn't have a chance. I'd hate to see that happen in this game. Someone made a comment about going to a level 50? planet to level slicing. Whatever for? I leveled slicing to 400 by the time I was 32 just by sending companions out while I was questing/PvPing. I've even dropped it now for something else, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 BAN them. Don't set your bar so low Bioware. Exploiting is exploiting. Just because a player discovers a developer error/oversight, it's no excuse for not knowing right from wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graymule Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 BAN them. Don't set your bar so low Bioware. Exploiting is exploiting. Just because a player discovers a developer error/oversight, it's no excuse for not knowing right from wrong. This. I have been trying to explain this - with various analogies - until I almost was banging my head on the desk. Very succinctly and clearly put. Thanks for that. This really feels like a lot of people would very much like to eat all the cookies and then have them to eat again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xngxng Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) You want to cheat, you take your chances. MMORPGs are incredibly complicated games. No human being can be prescient enough to deal with every scenario that could cause problems. They tell you in the EULA, exploiting is cheating. Just because the computer program allows the behavior doesn't mean its within the rules. Hence the reason that line is in the EULA in the first place. I wouldnt consider using your gathering skill or looting containers cheating. This thread is only about all the people that didnt cheat that got suspended and/or banned anyways. This is acceptable according to Bioware, this is not acceptable according to me, I do not want to get banned for looting a container, and I would have no idea who to ask if a specific container is allowed to loot. There are so many other ways to balance the economy besides banning people that are farming for mats/credits, which is what an mmo is all about to get the gear you want. If they really spoke to the people they banned and proved that they were selling their stuff for real life money, Im all for the ban, only Bioware has the right to sell ingame things for real life money now when they change the game to free to play to maximize profits. Edited January 3, 2012 by xngxng Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezekial-Karn Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Sadly things are to expensive in game already I have been holding Occasional lottery's within my guild just to help them afford things like speeders. I lucky for me figured out how to make money with scavenging and of course slicing so that aspect tends not to affect me to much. Even with the nerfed slicing I can still make money doing it however my big question is why cant other gathering skills like treasure hunting and the like. They too can get lock boxes but often times they make less than they spend to get the lock box which makes no sense to me whatsoever. Ways to make money other than grinding mobs needs to be in play for people to have a variety of ways to make money. Oh and before someone says space missions .. ug rail shooter sigh seriously? sure you can make some money via that, but I think its to easy for the cash you get and never have to pay for repairs to your ship or reload for missiles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggomy Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I wouldnt consider using your gathering skill or looting containers cheating. This thread is only about all the people that didnt cheat that got suspended and/or banned anyways. This is acceptable according to Bioware, this is not acceptable according to me, I do not want to get banned for looting a container, and I would have no idea who to ask if a specific container is allowed to loot. There are so many other ways to balance the economy besides banning people that are farming for mats/credits, which is what an mmo is all about to get the gear you want. If they really spoke to the people they banned and proved that they were selling their stuff for real life money, Im all for the ban, only Bioware has the right to sell ingame things for real life money now when they change the game to free to play to maximize profits. For the 10000th time now noone has ever been banned for looting a container. It says they were warned. So until you are warned do what you always have been doing. Why is it so hard to get the concept? Where does it say you cant loot containers even on a lvl 50 planet at lvl 20 you can. You just cannot sit there and loot same said container everytime it pops up for a month with your lowbie who normally wouldnt even been there. Come on now it isnt rocket science you cannot possibly think you can get banned for looting a container. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erasimus Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 ....I do not want to get banned for looting a container, and I would have no idea who to ask if a specific container is allowed to loot..... Please re-read the original OP's post. No one was banned for looting "a" container, or even looting the same container several times. People were suspended for looting the same container(s) over and over and over and .... you get the idea, to the point where that was pretty much all that character was doing in the game. Some accounts were banned for even more egregious behavior which was not fully explained. If you are farming the same containers over and over for 24 hour periods then I'd posit that you are either a gold farmer or are suffering from some weird sort of obsessive/compulsive disorder and should seek professional help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monegames Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) BAN them. Don't set your bar so low Bioware. Exploiting is exploiting. Just because a player discovers a developer error/oversight, it's no excuse for not knowing right from wrong. so exploiting in this game means takin a character to an area that is allowed for you to go and farming respawning chests for hours(allowed by every other mmo i have ever played) , not causing them to respawn. no where in any of Bioware's responses to the events said anything about using any exploits to make the chests respawn. if this is not allowed whats to say they allow farming a boss mob with a respawning chest, like the one a guildmate of mine was farming. Edited January 3, 2012 by monegames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monegames Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Please re-read the original OP's post. No one was banned for looting "a" container, or even looting the same container several times. People were suspended for looting the same container(s) over and over and over and .... you get the idea, to the point where that was pretty much all that character was doing in the game. Some accounts were banned for even more egregious behavior which was not fully explained. If you are farming the same containers over and over for 24 hour periods then I'd posit that you are either a gold farmer or are suffering from some weird sort of obsessive/compulsive disorder and should seek professional help or maybe i come from Everquest and am used to sitting in the same place for hours waiting for things to respawn, and i like seeing huge amounts of credits on my inventory screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aniaden Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 So...I can max my skill level at any level. Once I obtain my ship I can go anywhere. So if I max slicing and decide to go look for chests that meet my appropriate skill level and farm them I get banned? I missed the part where you said one per person I guess. So if I farmed chests all day like I farmed mines in wow I would get banned for credit farming? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenetke Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 LOL! All the gold farmers are in an uproar. Let's face it folks, the people banned or warned were the bad guys. They put their hand in the cookie jar one too many times and got caught. If you are doing nothing wrong then you have nothing to worry about. What is so hard to understand. What's wrong is people want to know exactly what can get them punished. It's important to have exact detailed rules available. I don't want to worry that if I'm out farming I might be doing something wrong. I don't want to break the rules, I also don't want my account banned. So what am I supposed to do? Not farm because I'm worried it will get me in trouble. I want them to say "hey you can't farm more than X credits in so many hours" if they did that great. I wouldn't have any problems because then it's clear. If they say "you can't kill the same mob more than x in Y hours" then also great. I think what people want is a clear definition of what can get them in trouble. That isn't so much to ask is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlBuzzard Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 I made this statement in another thread regarding the difference between "farming" for credits (something that is a MUST in order to be able to gain equipment, abilities such as speeders etc, maintaining equiment for Companions and add to that the star ship) ... However .. IMHO there is a difference between farming and abuse: ...... @ 4K a pop ... if you managed to collect 40K ... noone is probably going to complain. 100K ... you've been there 25 times. Again no one is probably going to say too much ! However at 1,000,000 credits... that's 250 times you've hit that chest. At what point are you no longer using it to help complete the game but now are unquestionably exploiting it ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggomy Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 What's wrong is people want to know exactly what can get them punished. It's important to have exact detailed rules available. I don't want to worry that if I'm out farming I might be doing something wrong. I don't want to break the rules, I also don't want my account banned. So what am I supposed to do? Not farm because I'm worried it will get me in trouble. I want them to say "hey you can't farm more than X credits in so many hours" if they did that great. I wouldn't have any problems because then it's clear. If they say "you can't kill the same mob more than x in Y hours" then also great. I think what people want is a clear definition of what can get them in trouble. That isn't so much to ask is it? Can you show me where anyone has been banned for looting containers? Have you gotten a warning? If not then why are you so worked up about it? They are not going to spell out the exact manner in which they catch people because then the crooks would know how to avoid being caught. Just play the game normally you will be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monegames Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 So...I can max my skill level at any level. Once I obtain my ship I can go anywhere. So if I max slicing and decide to go look for chests that meet my appropriate skill level and farm them I get banned? I missed the part where you said one per person I guess. So if I farmed chests all day like I farmed mines in wow I would get banned for credit farming? no one was banne for farming but some were warned and others were suspended for farming, not crafting nodes but loot chests. i am allowed to go to the area, allowed to loot the chests but not allowed to stay there for what Bioware deems "excessive" periods. when slicing missions were used to make to tons of credits i did not see any warnings or suspensions being handed out, it was just fixed. and was taken advantage of(exploited) until the fix went into place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monegames Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Can you show me where anyone has been banned for looting containers? Have you gotten a warning? If not then why are you so worked up about it? They are not going to spell out the exact manner in which they catch people because then the crooks would know how to avoid being caught. Just play the game normally you will be fine. no one is asking for exact details just an answer whether an exploit was being used to farm faster or if farmig the loot chests was an exploit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarlathe Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) I'm not even going to reply to you point for point because it's a waste of both of our times. Your entire argument boils down you "You don't NEED anything off the AH, therefore you shouldn't be upset that people have made everything completely unaffordable regardless of how you save up through legitimate means." I'm playing a game, this isn't real life where I simply will never be a CEO riding a different porche to work every day. Things shouldn't be completely unobtainable because of gold buyers or people who run an addon 24/7 to constantly buy low and resell or undercut people by 5% to run them out of buisness. How are you not able to save up for stuff? The market will level out to what the majority of people can afford. Again, prices for that shiny gear that you say is posted for 90K will come down when people refuse to pay that. I for one don't want Bioware to even try to police the economy. Ban gold sellers and BUYERS, but don't try and control what is essentially uncontrollable, you'll just make it more of a mess. BTW, I've noticed that the RoC was changed last night or today to no longer say anything about bank alts, holding gear or credits on alts and that sort of thing. I guess someone woke up and realized what a bonehead statement that was. ***EDIT*** NM, I was reading the one linked here last night. http://www.swtor.com/legalnotices/roc The latest one is http://www.swtor.com/legalnotices/rulesofconduct Edited January 3, 2012 by Jarlathe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenetke Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Can you show me where anyone has been banned for looting containers? Have you gotten a warning? If not then why are you so worked up about it? They are not going to spell out the exact manner in which they catch people because then the crooks would know how to avoid being caught. Just play the game normally you will be fine. I know how they catch people, they are running the server software. It's not very hard to keep track of it at all. Hell if they just set a simple flag so that a number increases. Say the container group id is 10, then when a player loots container 10 it will increase a reference by 1. Once that reaches enough they are flagged for review. How they catch people isn't the issue. The issue is that the first post is intentionally vague on what exactly qualifies as being wrong. The eula for example is very detailed on what exactly qualifies as breaking it (in most cases) The reason for that is pretty self evident, players need to know what they can do. Look at it another way. Say you are driving down the highway, and you get pulled over. The officer starts writing a ticket, and you asked what you did. He replies with "you were going too fast". You ask the speed limit, and he replies with "fast". You again ask "well, how fast is going too fast?". He just says "fast is too fast, now here is your ticket". The people on this thread for the most part are saying "well only speeders want to know how fast is too fast". If that is the case, then why are there even speed limit signs. They are there to let people know "hey if you go over this, you are breaking the law and you might be punished." That's what I'm looking for, a speed limit or something else to define exactly what I can get into trouble for. Now again, I ask is it too much trouble to give me that in a way I can clearly understand? Provide something so that people can say "well, o.k. I know not to go over 55", but what they have done now is say "well too fast is too fast, people are going fast and they are fine but some were going too fast and they got punished" well what the hell is too fast? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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