This week's patch is horrific.

[AkAseo]

Chill out folks and do what I did,

 

Unsubscribe after 48hrs, you may slate me now but 6 months down the line when you realise this game is utter dog turd you won't be able to get those paid subs back.

 

First impressions are what counts and this fails on so many levels.

 

Poorest MMO ever launched, Aion was better...

[hsuz]

Do you have any idea what happens when they just throw in hotfixes for everything? The code turns to **** very quickly. Then you'll be complaining because a lot of new problems have come up that are now even harder to fix, because those very hotfixes you asked for have now made the code impossible to maintain.

 

This. God, if only people would use the common sense they say they have to realize that trying to fix things quickly tends to make things worse in the long run.

 

On an unrelated note, I'd like to report on an amazing phenomenon in space-time. Apparently, if a critical mass of forum posts/threads on a given topic is reached, the programmers working on the issue will be phased forward in time and thus have the perfect solution at hand, ready to dispense to the masses.

 

*facepalm*

[MillionsKNives]

Look it's dead simple, you either release a semi bugged game and you work over times while patching it or you wait with the release.

Clearly this game wasn't done and needed another half year but x-mas and after the WOW patch was a smarter business move.

 

That doesn't take away that they know it and that this game is a mess.

I'm not even talking about the basic features it misses along with the promised features.

 

 

As a customer I shouldn't care about those details how hard coding is.

They decided to release a product and I expect it to work.

Sure MMO's have a lot of minor bugs and a few bigger once but this game has more than what I would call acceptable in 2012.

 

There haven't been any magical advancements in programming to make it easier to release software without bugs. Being 2012 or 2006 makes no difference in the amount of bugs a game may experience at launch. Apparently WoW suffered from much larger problems at launch, and yet this is considered a terrible launch?

 

They know about the problems and are fixing them. Grin and bear it until they fix it, stop playing until they fix it, or just don't play. Your complaints aren't going to make them fix the issues any faster.

Edited January 3, 2012 by MillionsKNives

[archifikoss]

Chill out folks and do what I did,

 

Unsubscribe after 48hrs, you may slate me now but 6 months down the line when you realise this game is utter dog turd you won't be able to get those paid subs back.

 

First impressions are what counts and this fails on so many levels.

 

Poorest MMO ever launched, Aion was better...

 

If I based my whole life on first impressions, I'd be a very, very shallow person.

 

And if all you're going to do is derail the thread by posting your OPINION of the game in a blatantly provocative way, kindly get out and post in an already existing "I hate this game" thread.

[TheHauntingBard]

There haven't been any magical advancements in programming to make it easier to release software without bugs. Being 2012 or 2006 makes no difference in the amount of bugs a game may experience at launch. Apparently WoW suffered from much larger problems at launch, and yet this is considered a terrible launch?

 

They know about the problems and are fixing them. Grin and bare it until they fix it, stop playing until they fix it, or just don't play. Your complaints aren't going to make them fix the issues any faster.

 

 

Except for the fact Blizzard had a smaller budget.

Indeed you can't magically fix everything, coding doesn't work that way.

 

So the next question would be why release a game with so many game breaking bugs and short comings if you know it will take a long while to fix?

It's not just the bugs but all these promised features that have no ETA either.

 

For some mysterious reasons Trion and Blizzard seem to be quite fast fixing bugs , must be magic.

Who knows I just see they are faster with fixing things.

 

 

' Just keep paying guys we might fix it in 5 months or so'

 

MMO's don't work that way, yes WOW was buggy but Blizzard was patching the game a lot fixing things left and right because they knew that.

Same with Trion , a game with a even smaller budget (which is painfully obvious).

[MillionsKNives]

Except for the fact Blizzard had a smaller budget.

Indeed you can't magically fix everything, coding doesn't work that way.

 

So the next question would be why release a game with so many game breaking bugs and short comings if you know it will take a long while to fix?

It's not just the bugs but all these promised features that have no ETA either.

 

For some mysterious reasons Trion and Blizzard seem to be quite fast fixing bugs , must be magic.

Who knows I just see they are faster with fixing things.

 

 

' Just keep paying guys we might fix it in 5 months or so'

 

MMO's don't work that way, yes WOW was buggy but Blizzard was patching the game a lot fixing things left and right because they knew that.

Same with Trion , a game with a even smaller budget (which is painfully obvious).

 

Budget doesn't affect code quality, all it does is mean that it will have greater scope, or more resources that must be managed. More moving parts means more areas for things to go wrong. Also, I'm sure that not a small portion of the budget went to hiring voice actors.

 

One thing to consider is that a large majority of their staff I'm sure just took the past week or so off for a much needed vacation. That will hinder bug fixes.

 

I'm not sure what your definition of "game breaking bugs" is, but other than some cases of crashing, instability, blocked quest progression, I'm not aware of this massive amount of game breaking bugs you claim is present. Even if there are more that I'm forgetting, the majority of players are able to play for the most part problem free, myself included.

[dargor-]

ITT I complain about specific bugs not getting fixed but I don't file tickets to report them

[dreadpirateandy]

Except for the fact Blizzard had a smaller budget.

Indeed you can't magically fix everything, coding doesn't work that way.

 

So the next question would be why release a game with so many game breaking bugs and short comings if you know it will take a long while to fix?

It's not just the bugs but all these promised features that have no ETA either.

 

For some mysterious reasons Trion and Blizzard seem to be quite fast fixing bugs , must be magic.

Who knows I just see they are faster with fixing things.

 

 

' Just keep paying guys we might fix it in 5 months or so'

 

MMO's don't work that way, yes WOW was buggy but Blizzard was patching the game a lot fixing things left and right because they knew that.

Same with Trion , a game with a even smaller budget (which is painfully obvious).

 

Wow, you have to be really out of it to mention that Trion had a smaller budget, fixes bugs faster, but has a worse feeling/looking game in the same thought and STILL wonder why that's true. Tradeoffs, bro. If they're better at fixing bugs but not as good with the general appeal of the game....well HMMMMMMMMM I WONDER WHY????? Maybe because they have more coding/bug fix resources and less graphics/design/whatever resources? Maybe? Sort of? There, that wasn't so hard or mysterious after all, was it? If you have a limited budget and are better in one area but worse in another....obviously you allocated your budget differently.

 

By that same logic, it's stupid to expect BW or any company to excel at everything with a limited budget. Because they only have so many funds to work with. The budget is limited. I don't know how many ways or how many times this has to be said for people to get it through their skulls and stop expecting every game company to do everything under the sun, faster than it's ever been done before, and have time to still develop the game further and provide ridiculous amounts of customer support and etc etc etc, all with a limited budget.

 

Oh, and to answer your other question, why release the game with bugs? 1, because every game will have some bugs. You can't get around this fact. The question of why releasing a game with bugs is ignorant and unreasonable and the simple answer is "because if they waited until everything was fixed, it would never be released." 2, people would be crying even worse than they are right now if the game had been delayed 2, 6, 12 months or more.

[Your_Ad_Here]

The problem is that the major issues such as ability lag, UI issues, performance problems were reported early in beta and completely ignored by bioware. Now all we get is "we are working on it" and a new huge content patch. Get real people the game has been in dev 6 years and loads of beta feedback was plain ignored over the last year. The "this game has only been out X days" argument does not hold up.

 

I must agree to this.

 

EQ2 had long BETA testings for their newest expanions and other items. TONS of feedback was sent in and guess what. It was ignored.

 

You can only imagine what happened next. Rolled out buggy expansion, people getting locked out of or in guildhalls, stuff just not working PERIOD .. and itemization making items/weapons/armor BROKEN (even Raid armor).

 

So BW, please listen. And get some new CSR reps too while you're at it.

[TheHauntingBard]

Posters above me sum it all up why approaching people like decent thinking humans beings is pointless.

I don't even know where to start on in how many ways this is as wrong as you can get.

Besides even if I would this guy wouldn't read, he will just go fanboy mode on me.

 

So I will keep it short and simple

 

- The game has game breaking bugs ,stating this is not true just shows you are just putting your head in the sand.

There is no point discussing it with you since you will deny the Gorilla in the room.

 

 

- Rift is better gameplay wise than SWTOR and doesn't look worse.

In fact Rift has some beautiful areas that surpass SWTOR by far.

The issue with Rift is their budget and IP.

 

 

- Acting like an angry fan boy because people don't agree with you isn't making your argument any better.

Look I am all up for discussing the good and bad parts about the game along with the patches.

 

But you can't discuss something with some one that makes it a debate about right or wrong and refuses to acknowledge that there is anything wrong with BW and this game.

 

Even if you consider this game to be perfect you should realize that to be able to discuss something with some you need to look at it from another point of view.

If you can't do that than you might as well not post.

 

 

Edit:

 

Noticed You_ad_here writing something between.

This post is not aimed for him and well kind of have to agree with his point.

Edited January 3, 2012 by TheHauntingBard

[einsoff]

lvl 48 with 8 days play time...have no crashes or bugs yet. idk what you people are doing but its probably your fault.

[Alkiii]

I truly don't know how people that whine so much can enjoy anything in this life, especially a video game.

 

This isn't Burger King ... you don't get it your way, right away.

 

 

This is a major release and I'm sure they're working diligently to resolve all the issues seen in the game.

 

If any of you knew anything about programming, you'd know that some fixes are easy, some are not and some are just a royal pain to fix without breaking something else. They are working on fixing things. The patch notes are proof of such. They're using extreme caution. I don't blame them. Why? Because if they try to fix a major bug and it somehow crashes the servers for 12 hours, these forums will be 10 times worse than they are now.

 

Patience goes a long way in today's day and age. Get some, or quit paying for this product. Simple logic really.

[RavenGlenn]

Every single MMO release, folks say the exact same things.

 

OMG THEY IGNORED EVERYTHING THAT WAS REPORTED IN BETA!

 

What you folks fail to understand is that they didn't ignore anything. They just simply cannot FIX everything in the time you'd like. The game is almost completely stable and playable. Those are the key focuses for any developer. Something like 'ability delay'(which I still don't know what it is as I've not experienced it) or 'UI isn't good enough' are not priority things to work on when you have freezing, crashes, bugged quests that prevent progression, getting stuck in the world, falling through the world(this happened a TON in vanilla WoW), etc.

 

These little quality of life issues weren't ignored, they just weren't at the top of the priority list. Oddly enough, they wanted to make sure you could actually PLAY the game before they worried about a small delay on skill usage or little cosmetic fixes to the UI.

[dreadpirateandy]

Every single MMO release, folks say the exact same things.

 

OMG THEY IGNORED EVERYTHING THAT WAS REPORTED IN BETA!

 

What you folks fail to understand is that they didn't ignore anything. They just simply cannot FIX everything in the time you'd like. The game is almost completely stable and playable. Those are the key focuses for any developer. Something like 'ability delay'(which I still don't know what it is as I've not experienced it) or 'UI isn't good enough' are not priority things to work on when you have freezing, crashes, bugged quests that prevent progression, getting stuck in the world, falling through the world(this happened a TON in vanilla WoW), etc.

 

These little quality of life issues weren't ignored, they just weren't at the top of the priority list. Oddly enough, they wanted to make sure you could actually PLAY the game before they worried about a small delay on skill usage or little cosmetic fixes to the UI.

 

This.

 

And @ the other poster: seeing the truth in this is not buying our heads in the sand. Having a realistic and rational outlook on the world is not buying our heads in the same. Allowing a reasonable time frame to get the game to where we want it to be is not burying our heads in the sand. But refusing to listen to reason and just throwing a fit that everything isn't magically 100% perfect, on the other hand, is burying your heads in the sand and worse.

[Gaucho]

Unfortunately, not every part of a game's development is an equal sized task, and we must prioritize fixes as best we can.

 

To speak to your example, while you may have never seen someone ask for emoting from a mount, it may still have been asked for (either in threads you've not seen, or in bug reports, for example). It's also possible this was a fix that was being worked on before launch, and has only just now made it into the game, or that fixing this bug clears the way for other bugs to be fixed, or that adding it allows other features to be implemented. And sometimes, it's just something we wanted to fix.

 

While we cannot acknowledge every single post and every single request made on these Forums, we're reading and passing on the desires to the development team. Every major request that's been made by players since launch is being discussed and prioritized. That doesn't mean every feature requested will make it into the game - we'd end up developing a very schizophrenic game if we did that. However many requested features will ultimately end up in the game.

 

While I'd suggest everyone does check the Dev Tracker from time to time, you should also keep an eye on our new Community Blog, which has already hosted a post from James Ohlen about some future features, and will have more insights as we go forward into additions to the game.

 

The team is hard at work on improving and where required fixing the game. Not every fix is easy and not every feature can be added overnight, but we'll continue to work to make the game even better.

 

Take a deep breadth

 

Adding things to the game like "emotes while in-vehicle" is counter productive when you already have a long list of standing major bugs to POLISH a playable game like LAG IN WARZONES, class quest bugs, Customer support not responding to customers, ( BTW your customer support thread looks scary ) You guys are forgetting that keeping customers happy is what makes the game great. Word of mouth is how W.O.W. got their numbers, not time-wasted features like EMOTES while in-vehicle. Really stephen? that was your best example to answer this thread?

 

Be careful what you choose to fix first. ( not to you stephen )

Edited January 3, 2012 by Gaucho

[Dakien]

Really that says more about your powers of observation than the bugs.

 

I find it interesting to compare Trion with BioWare (not Rift with SWTOR) by this stage they (Trion) had fixed a massive amount more. I'm not easily impressed, but love or hate their game, they had some pretty impressive guys working on it.

 

Oh slightly off topic Trion do there EU maintenance in the middle of the night and it's often finished in about 30 mins!!!

 

EXTREMELY poor comparison. Two games that are polar opposites in design. Aion was primarly situated on your personal hard drive with minimal server presence, very much like say.... Neverwinter Nights. SWTOR is almost entirely on the server and you are accessing the game from there with the client.

 

Fixes to Aion only took 30 minutes, because they didn't have to do much updating to their servers, you had to download and update your software at home. This is the reason that Aion had/has such a huge issue with gold spammers; their game was way too easy to hack.

 

Apples and oranges my friend.

[MillionsKNives]

Take a deep breadth

 

Adding things to the game like "emotes while in-vehicle" is counter productive when you already have a long list of standing major bugs to POLISH a playable game like LAG IN WARZONES, class quest bugs, Customer support not responding to customers, ( BTW your customer support thread looks scary ) You guys are forgetting that keeping customers happy is what makes the game great. Word of mouth is how W.O.W. got their numbers, not time-wasted features like EMOTES while in-vehicle. Really stephen? that was your best example to answer this thread?

 

Be careful what you choose to fix first. ( not to you stephen )

 

Your very concern is answered with the text you quoted. I suggest you read it.

[dreadpirateandy]

Take a deep breadth

 

Adding things to the game like "emotes while in-vehicle" is counter productive when you already have a long list of standing major bugs to POLISH a playable game like LAG IN WARZONES, class quest bugs, Customer support not responding to customers, ( BTW your customer support thread looks scary ) You guys are forgetting that keeping customers happy is what makes the game great. Word of mouth is how W.O.W. got their numbers, not time-wasted features like EMOTES while in-vehicle. Really stephen? that was your best example to answer this thread?

 

Be careful what you choose to fix first. ( not to you stephen )

 

This is a perfect example of how some players are so full of rage that they don't read or comprehend what they're being told. Then they reply completely incorrectly and make a fool of themselves.

 

You need to go back and read what you were quoting. Although from the sentence structure of your post compared to the post you quoted, you're about 12 levels below where you need to be, so I doubt it'll make sense to you either way so I'll spell it out. He cited some possible reasons why you may see a bug fix, he said that not all bug fixes will be seen immediately because they're prioritized, and he said that some suggestions may never get into the game (a little aside from me: they're evaluated and the stupid ones get tossed out - if your idea never makes it into the game, it was one of the stupid ones).

 

So he basically answered everything you're still whining about, and whining that he didn't answer.

[Jaerin]

lvl 48 with 8 days play time...have no crashes or bugs yet. idk what you people are doing but its probably your fault.

 

Agreed...this is my exact experience with Star Wars to date as well.

 

I'm not sure what you guys are complaining about. I've seen very few bugs, I've had a blast playing, and when I do find a bug its pretty minor. Now a good friend has had nothing but problems with playing the game. Crashing all the time, speeders that disappear and drop her, ect ect ect...

 

IMO Star Wars has had the single best launch in game history. There was very little lag or server instability and the queues were more than reasonable for a brand new game.

 

So hope things start working better for you guys, but all I can say is you might want to take a look in the mirror if you can't figure out why your machine is a POS.

[Jaerin]

Take a deep breadth

 

Adding things to the game like "emotes while in-vehicle" is counter productive when you already have a long list of standing major bugs to POLISH a playable game like LAG IN WARZONES, class quest bugs, Customer support not responding to customers, ( BTW your customer support thread looks scary ) You guys are forgetting that keeping customers happy is what makes the game great. Word of mouth is how W.O.W. got their numbers, not time-wasted features like EMOTES while in-vehicle. Really stephen? that was your best example to answer this thread?

 

Be careful what you choose to fix first. ( not to you stephen )

 

For all you know this was a one line code change that took literally 2 seconds to implement, but you seem to make it sound like they've stopped all development to add this one thing. You are being absolutely ridiculous and unreasonable.

 

Go sit in the corner and take a breath. Come back when you can put on your big boy pants on.

[Bullwrath]

How dare they not fix EVERYTHING at once this very instant.

 

OK. This one almost got me in trouble for laughing too hard at work.

 

Damn you, sir.

[Dragunslayer]

Generally I try to avoid threads like this but some of these posts just make me wanna beat my head against the table until I'm comatose.

 

I'm not fanboying this game to start with, the game has it's issues I will admit but some of what's being said here...

 

1. I see a lot of people complaining about bugs and such but also tossing UI complaints(not bugs just that they think it needs work) into the mix.

-UI changes are in a different field than bug fixes. They're probably lower on the list of things that NEED done and are gonna require reworking some of the code from the ground up for some of what's being asked. Also they will need a lot of testing to make sure the new UI code actually works.

-Bug fixes can take an incredibly long time to fix as one person posted earlier. They have to isolate and identify the cause(provided they can even reproduce the bug) before they can even fix it. And even after they identify where the issue lies then they have to sort through the insane amount of code this game has to find why. That cause can be something VERY easily overlooked, as small as a punctuation mark.

 

2. I see a lot of talk of 'game breaking bugs!' being tossed around in the thread but no real examples. I saw one guy talking about BH quest line being bugged but not stating what(despite being asked twice), I'm all the way to Hoth at this point and haven't had a single issue with my quest line so far. In fact I see that a lot in a good deal of these threads. People complaining about things being broken but never really giving details. Perhaps the issue you're having is isolated, maybe it's not, but without more information it's really hard to say for sure.

 

3. Game Breaking =/= little annoyances. This is another thing that really gets me are the people tossing around minor little annoyances and bugs and calling them game breaking. Game breaking are the things that make the game IMPOSSIBLE to play. Quests being impossible to finish because something doesn't spawn, game constantly crashing because of an issue with a certain area or event, or (something I experienced in Beta) invisible walls popping up and keeping you from advancing through an instance. THOSE are game breaking. A minute amount of skill lag, flashing green lights at random, or teeny tiny NPCs during CSes(Which I find to be hysterical to be honest) are annoyances at best.

 

4. Just because you experience something doesn't mean everyone else does. There was an issue where I got stuck after using Quick Travel on DK to get to the Spaceport after finishing one of my higher level BH quests there. I was the ONLY one who was traveling there who got stuck. The /stuck command wasn't working as it just moved me back to the bind point and I was still stuck. Only after logging out and back in was I able to move again. Things like this can be one of the bugs that can be very difficult to fix as reproducing it could be next to impossible.

 

5. I could go more into the probable setup of how BW has different teams working on different items and the whole vacation thing but that's been beaten into the ground already by other people so won't go into that.

 

6. To those experiencing any kind of bugs, if you want it fixed faster than my suggestion is rather than going into threads about it and simply chiming in with a "ME TOO!", give them as much detail as you can about what happened leading up to it. Tell them what you were doing, where you were, if you were traveling anywhere. If it wasn't a crash then open up your menu and give them your character position(it is shown in the upper left corner of the map screen). The more information they have the better the chance they have of finding the bug and fixing it.

 

7. In the long run, BW is more than likely fixing what they can as fast as they can. The issues that are able to be found quickly are the ones we're seeing fixed first. More complex or harder to find(reproduce) bugs are taking longer. Will they get fixed? I'd like to think so.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Dragunslayer

[Amdarius]

This guys a joke. http://www.reddit.com/r/swtor/commen...ager_for_star/

 

For every question he side steps around it like its top secret military stuff.

 

This is why I canceled my sub. I have no trust or faith in Bioware. Side steping around every question and the future of the game is not going to make me stick around.

 

I would love to be the bigger person and wish this game well. But I can't wait for it to die and go down in flames. We paid for a very unfinished game broken in so many areas and we have to pay $15 to continue playing after 30 days and you can't tell us anything about the future of things in this game.

 

This is what happens when EA gets involved. They want to keep people hanging on as long as possible. They take any profitable/highly reputable company and turn them into a short term cash cow for short term profits at the expense of the long term.

[Amdarius]

Except for the fact Blizzard had a smaller budget.

Indeed you can't magically fix everything, coding doesn't work that way.

 

So the next question would be why release a game with so many game breaking bugs and short comings if you know it will take a long while to fix?

It's not just the bugs but all these promised features that have no ETA either.

 

).

 

Same reason they released a game with ZERO guild functionality and no functioning legacy system (when that was one of their primary selling points). EA wanted their $$.

[MillionsKNives]

Same reason they released a game with ZERO guild functionality and no functioning legacy system (when that was one of their primary selling points). EA wanted their $$.

 

Exactly what alternative situation are you exepcting here? For them to have finished those other things earlier? This would have required cuts on work in other areas, perhaps even those bug fixes everyone keeps demanding. Anything else is just saying "they should have worked harder". Or are you saying they should have delayed the game until they got those other features implemented? The vast portion of the content is ready and done, why delay the game for fluff features? There would be more people crying if they delayed the game, and those features wouldn't get to you any faster had they delayed it.

 

You could just stop playing and when the extras you want are actually implemented then you can come back and act as though it's release day. Win-win, no?

 

 

But of course it's all just because they hate their player base and want your monies, right?

 

 

Edit: A great quote one of my professors told me comes to mind. "A game is never finished, it is only released."

Edited January 3, 2012 by MillionsKNives