This Is How Competition Works

[shazzyrm]

I love SWTOR, I love WOW, I love LOTRO, I love Rift I adore DAOC and may there be many more games out there that I will one day love.

 

We are so lucky to have all this choice. Back when I was a little lass, we had blobs on a screen to play with so it's like being in a candy shop today compared. I know it makes me look old but it wasn't all that long ago. Today people are spoilt for choice and should be grateful that with all the insults thrown their way there are still game makers with fantastic creativity and ideas. I wish I had their talent.

[Paksis]

I'm with you Raein.

[Yfelsung]

My question:

 

What does WoW have that SWTOR doesn't that SWTOR should have?

 

Dungeon Finder? F no. I'll fight tooth and nail against the inclusion of a dungeon finder.

That goes for cross realm BGs and a raid finder as well.

 

Arena? Another big F no from me.

 

Rated BGs? Let's make that 3 F nos.

 

WoW has raids. SWTOR has raids.

 

WoW has open world PvP zones. SWTOR has them.

 

SWTOR has a good story. WoW doesn't. That's 1 up for SWTOR.

 

I'm not trying to fanboy it up here. I'm honestly curious, what does WoW have that SWTOR needs? Most of the things WoW has that SWTOR doesn't I honestly hope SWTOR never gets.

[Englefield]

However, on the other hand, one could argue that it has been easier for Bioware to develop TOR's features to be more in-line with current industry standards.

 

1. The game is based on the Hero engine MMO software

2. The have had the shoulders of several giants to stand on

3. Substantial budget

 

It's just a game, after all, but let's be honest: a broken, half-implemented guild window is pretty poor.

 

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying this game is perfect and there are plenty of things this game should have, but saying that this game should be in line with wow 4.3 is asking far too much.

[FellintoOblivion]

My question:

 

What does WoW have that SWTOR doesn't that SWTOR should have?

 

Dungeon Finder? F no. I'll fight tooth and nail against the inclusion of a dungeon finder.

That goes for cross realm BGs and a raid finder as well.

 

Arena? Another big F no from me.

 

Rated BGs? Let's make that 3 F nos.

 

WoW has raids. SWTOR has raids.

 

WoW has open world PvP zones. SWTOR has them.

 

SWTOR has a good story. WoW doesn't. That's 1 up for SWTOR.

 

I'm not trying to fanboy it up here. I'm honestly curious, what does WoW have that SWTOR needs? Most of the things WoW has that SWTOR doesn't I honestly hope SWTOR never gets.

 

A combat log.

 

Vendor filters that work.

 

Smooth, instant reaction combat.

 

Scaleable/movable UI elements.

 

A decent AH.

 

That should be enough to keep the devs busy for a few months, lets start there.

[Saitada]

Imagine if it could be so. I have since WoW especially wished for a game where you could get a server with at least double subscription cost, for no reason at all except it being more EXPENSIVE. It would be the optimal way of getting rid of snot nosed little smelly pre to early post teen players and get back to a more mature gaming environment which I SO MISS from the Everquest 1 days, when the average WoW player would have been shunned and not allowed to participate in the raiding/social community.

 

I miss those days as well. When people acted decently towards one another, were actually helpful when someone asked a question instead of being smarmy brats, and when people learned REAL fast that if they acted like children, they got ignored by the entire server community.

 

I also miss Hell Levels. Oh those were the days...

 

~Saitada

 

The Spectre's are loose again!

[archifikoss]

A combat log.

 

Vendor filters that work.

 

Smooth, instant reaction combat.

 

Scaleable/movable UI elements.

 

A decent AH.

 

That should be enough to keep the devs busy for a few months, lets start there.

 

All of which they are looking into, and will work on sooner or later (check the dev tracker and SR's Q&A)

[flunkorg]

If you like rift. Play rift. Post on rift forums.

If you like guild wars. Play guild wars. Post on guild wars forums.

If you like WoW. Play WoW. Post on WoW forums.

If you like TOR. Play TOR. Post on TOR forums.

 

Why is this so hard to comprehend?

[Inat_mivea]

Imagine if it could be so. I have since WoW especially wished for a game where you could get a server with at least double subscription cost, for no reason at all except it being more EXPENSIVE.

 

 

that's a good idea. I'd pay double for a decent community

[Yfelsung]

A combat log.

 

Vendor filters that work.

 

Smooth, instant reaction combat.

 

Scaleable/movable UI elements.

 

A decent AH.

 

That should be enough to keep the devs busy for a few months, lets start there.

 

A combat log: We agree, and it's on the way.

 

Vendor Filters that Work: You'll need to explain what you mean, as the GTN filters work fine for me.

 

Smooth, Instant Reaction Combat: Could be a problem with your PC, I only have problems when I'm running bad latency. As long as my latency is sub-50, my combat is smooth and responsive.

 

Scaleable/Movable UI: On the way. Sure, sucks we don't have it out of the box, but it's confirmed on the way.

 

A Decent AH: What's wrong with the AH? A limit of 50 sales prevents the AH shenanigans that WoW suffered from. The filters work fine. I MUCH PREFER a buyout only system.

 

I actually love the GTN, I use it all the time. Unlike WoW's AH it won't cause the economy to artificially inflate.

[Jalden]

It is more fun for me. Nothing else matter.

[mrsiCkstar]

The problem here is that so many of you are just flat out denying that TOR is in no way in the same realm that World of WarCraft is in. What's even more pathetic is that some of you are actually trying to justify this inane reasoning by comparing TOR to Vanilla WoW and the issues it had.

 

World of WarCraft came out in 2004. You are trying to compare a product from 2004 to a product from 2011.

 

As opposed to comparing a game that has had 8 years of improvements and add ons to a game that's been out for 2 weeks?

 

Compare a Smartphone from 2004 to a Smartphone from 2011. If the Smartphone from 2011 was missing features that a phone from 2004 had, you would be laughing your asses off at it, asking yourselves how anyone allowed such a worthless product to market.

 

What if Modern Warfare 3 didn't have online capabilities even though Call of Duty 2 did? What if Portal 2 didn't run on Steamworks, yet Half-Life 2 did? You can pick whatever other comparison you like, it all points to the same issue.

 

Yes, your logic is compelling. You fail to realise that WOW didn't just come out in 2004 and stop there... it came out in 2004 and evolved for 8 years and continuing. No smart phone or lame COD game has or will ever do that.

 

Also weather or not TOR is in the same realm as WOW depends on what an individual thinks is important. In my opinion TOR has already surpassed WOW in everything that matters to me. Do I care about a /roll feature? No I don't. In fact I couldn't care less. I care about the story and the voice acting and the fun I'm having with the game. I played WOW for a few months some years ago and it didn't do anything that I looked for in a game. I couldn't care less about raiding 24/7. I couldn't care less about power leveling to reach the level cap and the end game content as fast as possible. You do that here and you'll miss out on most of the game.

 

What's funny is that all these pro WOW tirades come off as really defensive. It's obvious that people who have wasted years of their time running around killing 10 wolves or collecting 10 fangs (which means you have to kill 10 more wolves) don't want to see the object of that dedication threatened. It's obvious you think TOR is a threat to WOW. It's obvious you know WOW is going to become out dated and obsolete in the not too distant future so you get defensive and come here whining and pointing out all the features currently lacking in TOR. Does it make you feel more secure?

 

Or maybe you just get paid by Blizzard.... who knows.

Edited January 2, 2012 by mrsiCkstar

[jvonrader]

You know what the funny thing about that car analogy is? You pretty much just described a Porsche.

[Errathe]

If you like rift. Play rift. Post on rift forums.

If you like guild wars. Play guild wars. Post on guild wars forums.

If you like WoW. Play WoW. Post on WoW forums.

If you like TOR. Play TOR. Post on TOR forums.

 

Why is this so hard to comprehend?

 

Why is it so hard to comprehend that this is a discussion forum? People have things they wanna talk about, and Bioware gave the a forum to do it on.

[Saber_Six]

OP's logic is questionable. If one opens a high-end hamburger restaurant they don't model themselves after McDonalds. You know your customer base and serve them. You don't just copy the most "popular" chain that's out there.

 

Make this game for Star Wars fans not WoW fans!

[ArmchairMagpie]

Blind apologism is often the result of vitriolic and repetitive complaining from people. It's also a cover for fear of the truth getting out and ruining your playerbase which you hoped to see grow.

 

Personally I play both and I criticize both. Makes me unreliable in some eyes because I might not blindly jump to defense but mix in criticism at both with praises to both. I am a loyal traitor of two countries.

 

But I play many games, most of them have flaws, alot of flaws. You don't improve games by staying silent over the issues. The most loyal fans are those who constructively criticize the most. It is not some form of negativism, it's positivism without showing false loyalty. Most people leaving in the end are the discontents and those who have pretended loyalty but lied at heart.

[flunkorg]

You know what the funny thing about that car analogy is? You pretty much just described a Porsche.

 

Why do people continuously compare programming to out of this word analogies that don't work? Do they think it makes them look clever?

[Excedrin]

I miss those days as well. When people acted decently towards one another, were actually helpful when someone asked a question instead of being smarmy brats, and when people learned REAL fast that if they acted like children, they got ignored by the entire server community.

 

I also miss Hell Levels. Oh those were the days...

 

~Saitada

 

The Spectre's are loose again!

 

Rose tinted glasses. EQ was the home of some of the most ridiculous outlandish gamer behavior I've ever seen. Furor of FoH in particular acted like pretty much the greatest waste of space on earth, and he did so on a regular basis. See, you got by because you ignored those people. Try to do it again, it isn't hard.

[Errathe]

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying this game is perfect and there are plenty of things this game should have, but saying that this game should be in line with wow 4.3 is asking far too much.

 

I understand you point of view. I for one am content, for now, to let Bioware get up to speed.

 

However, I disagree with you. It should definitely be inline with any current MMO. They have had ample time and resources in which research what is necessary to have a competitive MMO. They have had so many other games come before theirs, from which they have seen what is required, statistically, to create a competitive MMO.

 

But ya know, expectations are like opinions, which are like botty exhausts: everybody has one!

[notebene]

That being said, it is the top dog. It is the MMO which all other MMOs must aspire to equal or beat in terms of quality. This does not mean they must be clones of it, rather that they must appeal to as many people as it does for their own reasons (or similar ones).

 

The game aside, I reject two philosophies that seem to pervade your post.

 

1. I know what competition is, but I don't think it is the sole measure of success or worth in the universe.

 

2. I don't think that appealing to as many people as possible is a measure of success or worth.

[Mamono]

I can't understand why people have to constantly compare TOR with other MMO's. It offers a completely different focus on what is important, and what is not. I could complain that WoW doesn't offer voice acting and complain my heart out on the forums and say "OMG Blizzard doesn't listen this is never going to change!!1!"

 

I don't because it is a different game, with different priorities.

 

Just take it as it is, offer constructive criticism and see what happens. It might improve soon, then it might not either. If you don't have faith things will change, do by any means go back to WoW, or for god's sake just enjoy it as it is and don't despair about why things don't change fast enough. End of Story.

 

Why people compere SWToR with other MMO's?

First of all, most of the people playing this game have experience from playing other MMO’s.

Second. This game is build up around the basic MMO concept. Uses a lot of the same futures as other MMOs.

This IS an MMO, they commercial them self as an innovative MMO. And if they commercial them self as an innovative MMO, then they need to have something to be innovative from. And the only thing is other MMO’s.

 

The game is not different in any aspect then this is an si-fi. Nothing ells is new with this game. Voice acting? Been in games for ages. They just use it everywhere. Storry heavy lined? Not new, every MMO out there has a storry line, SWToR just lean more heavily on it.

Other then that, SWToR is following the basic MMO recipe, but in a very bad way.

Since they are following the basic MMO recipe, they also should be innovative with it as they say they are. ATM they are lacking a ton of stuff, ok game is new, but they still say they are innovative. ATM there is nothing innovative with the game at all.

Does it come later? Right now they are following an old and outdated MMO recipe.

 

In ever aspect of the game you can compere it to something ells.

And don’t come here and say they don’t have an MMO experience because EA have had an MMO out already.

[Senadin]

However, on the other hand, one could argue that it has been easier for Bioware to develop TOR's features to be more in-line with current industry standards.

 

1. The game is based on the Hero engine MMO software

2. The have had the shoulders of several giants to stand on

3. Substantial budget

 

It's just a game, after all, but let's be honest: a broken, half-implemented guild window is pretty poor.

 

WOW the Hero engine!!!

 

The one crappy platform they could have got, they went with!

 

You do know the Hero engine was created in early 2000 right??? Simutronic had it when they showcased their never released MMO, Hero's Journey.

 

We're talking about an engine that has only 2 games released under it's belt so far. Swtor and some other small MMO.

 

Not sure if i understand you well, but if you think it's a selling point, think again!

 

Hero engine=old, unproven and cheap.

[Saitada]

Rose tinted glasses. EQ was the home of some of the most ridiculous outlandish gamer behavior I've ever seen. Furor of FoH in particular acted like pretty much the greatest waste of space on earth, and he did so on a regular basis. See, you got by because you ignored those people. Try to do it again, it isn't hard.

 

When EQ first came out (the first year or so), people like that got ignored, and shunned. As EQ progressed, and grew, more and more 'adult' children started playing it, and it became harder to have to deal with them.

 

This is one reason why I truly hope that SWTOR doesn't have an ignore list limit, as I find myself ignoring people regularly.

 

~S

[flunkorg]

But I play many games, most of them have flaws, alot of flaws. You don't improve games by staying silent over the issues.

 

You also don't fix problems by constantly crying and gnawing at there feet saying "Your game is absolute ****! Rift is better! Your games gonna fail!" hopping that this will somehow "motivate" them. Sorry to tell you but the world doesn't work like that. I have no idea WHY you think the world works like that.

 

We have a feedback section. Use it. Its called proper, detailed feedback void of personal opinion. Do it. Its called leave out pointless insults from posts. Its unbelievable that had to be said.

 

This game is FAR from perfect. But if you ACTUALLY wanna help, you have all the tools you need to help. And there is a PROPER, CIVILIZED way to do so.

 

P.S. I'm not accusing you of any of this. Just making a point to those who it applys too. My primary is french so pardon me if its not exactly worded like I intended.

Edited January 2, 2012 by flunkorg

[Errathe]

The game aside, I reject two philosophies that seem to pervade your post.

 

1. I know what competition is, but I don't think it is the sole measure of success or worth in the universe.

 

2. I don't think that appealing to as many people as possible is a measure of success or worth.

 

Are you sure about the second one? Appealing to as many people as possible surely means that more people are likely to buy the product, thereby contributing to the product's longevity. Longevity is, in my mind, the true measure of a MMO's success.