I unsubscribed, and here's why.

[InvisibleJim]

WOW wwas worse on launch.

 

Spelling fail, and comparing a game released in 2011 to one released in 2003 fail... Simply, the bar has been thoroughly raised.

[Jaku]

No it wasn't. WoW was FAR better at launch. Regardless SWTOR isn't up against WoW at launch it's up against WoW NOW. Where is it better? Story?

 

Someone has a foggy memory. The game was riddled with bugs and had close to no content. It wasn't only until 4-5 months later when they started putting content patches in that the game surged in subscribers.

[CupieFoxtail]

WoW is the exception. Show me another MMO other than WoW that grew significantly after its first launch month. A subscriber-based MMO, please.

 

Show me another mmo that had the same amount of money poured into it as WoW or SWtOR

Show me an MMO with a higher mean review by critics than SWtOR other than WoW

Show me another MMO that was created by a developer as phenomenal as blizzard or bioware

This game is exceptional in many ways that only itself and WoW have been

[Elyons]

If you look objectively at everything that is wrong with this game it should be obvious to you that it is a year from being ready. It won't be given a year - hell it won't be given 3 months and you know what? It shouldn't be given 3 months.

 

How long do they need? What improvements were made in the 6 months since pre-orders?

 

PvP is an absolute disaster, the sides are as unbalanced as they can be...worlds are flat and uninteresting. What is going to save this game? There are way too many things that are just plain bad. Story? I'm on my 5th character and spacebarring through the same crap on coruscant. There is almost NO replayability factor.

 

It's awful, and there will be less than 300k subs in 3 months.

 

 

 

Were you even there for the WoW launch? Please, just stop before you are labeled ShadySketchy's apprentice

[Mannic]

Hmm - WoW's starting population was around 1 Million subs in the first month as well.

 

Seven years later we end up with a declining 12 million Sub Populous. My my, we forget to do our research didn't we?

 

As with my above post, the single, lone exception in no way proves the rule.

 

TOR is not WoW. One reason WoW grew so significantly after its first month is because there was still a shortage of games on store-shelves, so they were catching up to demand, continually opening new servers, and because they hadn't yet opened their European servers. Neither of these things affects TOR in the slightest. There's no shortage of games on store shelves yet beyond the EGA servers they are having very few problems with server populations. I still see a ton of "light" and "standard" populated servers at all hours, almost all of which were launch day servers, and this loudly proclaims the fact that people aren't exactly trying to pry their way through the gates to get into this game.

 

But as a rule, Walton was exactly correct. Subscriber based games do not grow after their first month. Only one has grown, and that's WoW, and no one is ever going to catch lightning-in-a-bottle like WoW has.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Mannic

[LionRampant]

Some of you seem to be missing the point that the reason why WoW was and still is so successful is because it was a bloody great game for years.

 

TOR will never be a great game. What does it have? Story? Story does not a great MMO make, and never will do. Being great at story and failing at the elements that make and MMO is not the way to make an MMO.

[brokentelevision]

WOW wwas worse on launch. Fail logic is fail.

 

I honestly thought the Bioware Social Forums were bad. This forum honestly takes the cake with absolute worst community ever.

 

Yes and before wow MMO's could get away with that. It's a known fact that blizzard killed the genre that is MMO's. Because of them, all future MMO's have to launch with a perfect game just to stay afloat in a market that is monopolized by blizzard.

 

You have to launch the game running, with start of the art features. You can't half *** it and just patch it in later like you could before WoW.

 

 

Bioware didn't understand this and will pay the price for not taking MMO's seriously. Not giving the game enough MMO features. They screwed up every single aspect of MMO in this game and is only holding itself together because of it's story line. But that storyline only goes so far before you finish it and leave.

[Brzytwa]

I think is too late to fix almost every aspect of game. that was really bad idea they launch this game as MMO. EA and Bioware never did any good MMO but they had 3 spectacular failures with them.

[RecondoJoe]

Most other mmo's failed due to their beta state. Even if they are great games now (see Conan for an example) - it doesn't matter, the damage is done in the first month.

 

The damage is done and SWTOR will be a failure. This is a fact.

 

Same thing with EverQuest 2, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, Anarchy Online etc. Huge in flux of players, 90% of which quit within the first month.

[Elyons]

this is what frightened me, since its kind of the feeling i have at this point.

 

 

Completely untrue. Even the normal questlines choices will effect you (Companion affection.) Plus, There VERY many areas in flashpoints, quests, and Character stories that choices will make quite the difference in what you'll be doing for the next 20 minutes, or several quests.

[Fireline]

Show me another mmo that had the same amount of money poured into it as WoW or SWtOR

Show me an MMO with a higher mean review by critics than SWtOR other than WoW

Show me another MMO that was created by a developer as phenomenal as blizzard or bioware

This game is exceptional in many ways that only itself and WoW have been

 

warhammer had something like 89 on metacritic for the first month to

[CupieFoxtail]

warhammer had something like 89 on metacritic for the first month to

 

Warhammer has an 86 on metacritic

try again

[NoBarta]

Lol. Dude. This game has had a fantastic launch compared to every other MMO out there.

 

This game will do fine for several obvious reasons

 

1) It is Star Wars.

 

2) It focuses heavily on single player and does it well using a tried and true very successful model (KOTOR). The dialogue is funny and the stories are engrossing.

 

3) All 8 classes have their own unique story, providing quite a lot of replay value... much much more than other MMOs. This makes up for the rather weak PvP/end game content at present.

 

4) The game worked at launch. Bugs? Yes. Same as Skyrim, though: nothing game breaking.

 

5) No MMOs have a ton of content at end game 1 week after launch. I was beta with COH, for example. Once you hit max level, you just started a new character redoing prety much the same exact quests all over again.

 

So look: I get it, there are problems that need to be fixed. Absolutely agree. I also agree that if no new end game content and/or PvP content is added, people will get bored. (PLEASE NOTE THAT POINT). Then they will leave.

 

But for being 1 week in, SWTOR looks pretty sweet. Much better than COH, Eve or WoW did when they were only a week old. All 3 of those have been hugely successful, long lasting games, by the way.

 

Let's see how it goes. I am optimistic about the game's prospects.

 

I do concede that I have a soft spot for this style of game as I played all of the KOTOR games and loved them. Here's the thing, though: there are a lot of people like me in their 30s... we remember... and we will play this game for awhile.

 

One last thought: my wife just tried it out and is hooked. For her the game is accessible, it WORKS, and it allows her to run around torturing people with electricity. This game has a draw that others won't and it is executed pretty well.

Edited January 2, 2012 by NoBarta

[Fireline]

Warhammer has an 86 on metacritic

try again

 

and its a complete garbadge game, meaning that high score is meaningless

[LionRampant]

Warhammer also had great warzone pvp - TOR can't even manage that. I mean jesus christ WAR had how many warzones to start with? 15 or so? And this has THREE LAGGY WARZONES.

[Fireline]

Lol. Dude. This game has had a fantastic launch compared to every other MMO out there.

 

This game will do fine for several obivous reasons

 

1) It is Star Wars.

 

2) It focuses heavily on single player and does it well using a tried and true very successful model (KOTOR). The dialogue is funny and the stories are engrossing.

 

3) All 8 classes have their own unique story, providing quite a lot of replay value... much much more than other MMOs. This makes up for the rather weak PvP/end game content at present.

 

4) The game worked at launch. Bugs? Yes. Same as Skyrim, though: nothing game breaking.

 

5) No MMOs have a ton of content at end game 1 week after launch. I was beta with COH, for example. Once you hit max level, you just started a new character redoing prety much the same exact quests all over again.

 

So look: I get it, there are problems that need to be fixed. Absolutely agree. I also agree that if no new end game content and/or PvP content is added, people will get bored.

 

But for being 1 week in, SWTOR looks pretty sweet. Much better than COH, Eve or WoW did when they were only a week old. All 3 of those have been hugely successful, long lasting games, by the way.

 

How do you point that an MMO is going to be good because of its single player and keep a straight face

[RecondoJoe]

Lol. Dude. This game has had a fantastic launch compared to every other MMO out there.

 

Call me jaded, but this is the first MMO launch where I have been completely unable to play the game due to crippling FPS while running the game on a high-end gaming machine. And I've been playing MMOs since Ultima Online, and EverQuest Beta. This is by far the worst launch for me. Perhaps it's not as bad for those who can actually play the game, but I'm pretty sure even Rift had a smoother launch than this in terms of end-game content, functionality and PvP.

Edited January 2, 2012 by RecondoJoe

[Jaku]

Warhammer also had great warzone pvp - TOR can't even manage that. I mean jesus christ WAR had how many warzones to start with? 15 or so? And this has THREE LAGGY WARZONES.

 

I think you're off by like 11 there, bud.

 

Actually, I think there was 6.

 

I do remember at a certain level you couldn't enter the lower level ones anymore, at level 40 I think there was only three available.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Jaku

[CupieFoxtail]

and its a complete garbadge game, meaning that high score is meaningless

 

Warhammer failed because of crappy post release content

The base game was interesting, but not nearly as good as SWtOR's base game

I find it hilarious that you're trying to conjecture this game's failure based on unreleased post-release content

So basically, if you're saying the game is going to fail, you're agreeing with me that you have absolutely no idea

Edited January 2, 2012 by CupieFoxtail

[Elyons]

As with my above post, the single, lone exception in no way proves the rule.

 

TOR is not WoW. One reason WoW grew so significantly after its first month is because there was still a shortage of games on store-shelves, so they were catching up to demand, continually opening new servers, and because they hadn't yet opened their European servers. Neither of these things affects TOR in the slightest. There's no shortage of games on store shelves yet beyond the EGA servers they are having very few problems with server populations. I still see a ton of "light" and "standard" populated servers at all hours, almost all of which were launch day servers, and this loudly proclaims the fact that people aren't exactly trying to pry their way through the gates to get into this game.

 

But as a rule, Walton was exactly correct. Subscriber based games do not grow after their first month. Only one has grown, and that's WoW, and no one is ever going to catch lightning-in-a-bottle like WoW has.

 

 

 

I wonder if you noticed how Speculative your apparent "Fact" post is. Now please explain to me your reasoning for staying here if your so thoroughly convinced this game will fail?

[Brzytwa]

reviews are useless for MMO. first 1-2 months will be very important for TOR. I think it won't gonna make it and due to lack of almost everything that AAA MMO should have these days, TOR will propably lose too many subs to be profitable and will share faith of other EA/Bioware spectacular failures..

 

.. btw: EA or Bioware never did good MMO, but they had few spectacular failures, so where is this phenomen?

[Mannic]

Show me another mmo that had the same amount of money poured into it as WoW or SWtOR

Show me an MMO with a higher mean review by critics than SWtOR other than WoW

Show me another MMO that was created by a developer as phenomenal as blizzard or bioware

This game is exceptional in many ways that only itself and WoW have been

 

LoTRO and Warhammer both had costs of development very close, if not higher, than WoW. TOR cost more than double what WoW cost. WoW wasn't successful just because of its cost.

 

Warhammer's and LoTRO's reviews were both every bit as good as TOR's. In fact, almost every triple-A MMO that didn't go bankrupt within a week of release (APB) had very positive reviews. Developers always put the most effort into the first 20 levels of their game because they know that reviewers don't play an MMO much past that before they post their reveiws.

 

Mythic was one of the most respected MMO developers out there before Warhammer ruined their reputation. And Bioware had never made an MMO before this. At least Blizzard had a ton of online experience with battle.net before making WoW. Bioware had virtually none.

 

This game is exceptional in only one way-- story. It's the common theme of every review, every positive feedback, everything about this game.

[Lasica]

The thing about making story the focus of your game is eventually that story has to end somewhere and when it does people are left with a shell of a game with nothing to do and that is when they will start quitting in droves.

[SaltAU]

PVP is fun, purely because I have 9% damage/reduction from my expertise (got lucky with the Champion's Bags), but I doubt being a level 15 being completely and utterly destroyed by my premade can be enjoyable. (http://i.imgur.com/tat6E.jpg - Republic got a grand total of 5 kills in this battle...)

 

 

To quote your summary of pvp, no its not fun at all. Your screen shot also doesn't mention the obvious. Almost all, if not every republic player would have left the game, new player joins and then proabaly leave also, so of course the stats would be skewed.

 

I have never seen anything like the pvp in this game. I honestly question if any thought at all was put into its implementation and if there was thought then I'd seriously question whether those people responsible are the correct people for the job. Level 11-50 players in one warzone? That in itself is just ridiculous. The sheer amount of people leaving warzones in the few that I have played was absolutely incredible. Try adding a penalty to people leaving matches BioWare.

 

If you have to be told by the playerbase how to make your game better (and its not just pvp) then there is little wonder so many players are left shaking their heads.

 

The game is a disgrace and should never have been released as it is.

Edited January 2, 2012 by SaltAU

[Vitellius]