I agree with those. TBH unremitting is A MUST. PERIOD. Otherwise, devs need to explain why they feel vigi/veng builds deserve it for free and we don't. I mean they don't even have to spend a utility point for cc immunity about 25% of the time. THAT IS HUGE.

Cauterize is fine now, but dot spreading via TST is brilliant, and more in line with how serenity shadows can spread their dots from 30m with FiB....

Well at least this is an acknowledgement that change is needed and is coming...lets hope change, which got us into this state, is going to be positive this time. We NEED unremitting, like what vigi guardians get for FREE as a passive at lvl 44. That is 4 seconds of cc immunity plus damage reduction for 4 seconds after every force leap. This one SINGLE free passive is, I believe, responsible for quite a bit of the gap in numbers that guards/jugs are showing over us in pvp. You also need to SERIOUSLY take a look at the cc/escapes - just their impact and sheer number - that melee classes have to deal with...of course an unremitting like skill will OBE some of the cc palooza factor. OR we need something like sturdiness, a utility Shadows have, that makes their 12 second 2 min dcd, deflection, provide cc immunity. Our main dcd, saber ward, is also only 12 seconds, but with a THREE MINUTE CD, and NO cc immunity option. To be fair it also does reduce some damage, but CC immunity is the issue of the day in this cc festival you have created. Also, a 3 sec precision window is laughable. For Watchman, a more efficient way to apply and spread the dots would be nice...Serenity Shadow can apply one dot from 30m, one dot from 10m, and spread the dots from 30m away. DOING THE SAME DAMAGE with the BENEFIT OF RANGE. And without having to resource build, which takes MORE TIME on target, in melee range. See the cc-a-palooza issue above. So, again, lets see some POSITIVE change, that bring us in line with the goodness you have dished out for vigi guards, serenity shadows, and Tactics VGs. I know EAWare has a sordid past with sents, so pretend we are another class if you need to, in order to not nerf us again...and again....and again. Thx.

Yeah...also consider this is FOUR SECONDS of CC immunity EVERY 15 seconds (force leap timer) or less, if a force push is used to reset. This alone explains a HUGE chunk of the damage difference I see between sents and jugs in WZs. Juggs are basically cc immune up to 25% of the time with this ONE PASSIVE SKILL that doesn't even require a utility point spent.

As a melee class, sent/mara susceptibility to cc - especially movement effects that knock us out of melee, or keep us from getting into melee- are one of the biggest problems I see with the class atm. While ranged classes (gunslinger is ridiculous, sage is close) get MORE and MORE cc and escapes...all of which reduces our ability to get into and stay in melee range. For example, slingers have cover which means we can never leap to them...then they have slows, so we take longer to get to them, all the while we are being deeps'd...Then when you do FINALLY make it into melee range, they can scamper away and reset cover, or knock us back...either way we cant effectively close before we lose massive health, and when we do, we will have almost zero time on target in melee range. This is preposterous design. Then you have requirements for resource building and a set rotation (e.g., watchman if you want to apply and spread you DoTs) or a VERY small window to burst (3 sec precision) where any of these CCs ruin your ability to do the dps that is your sole purpose as a dps spec. Then you have crap like this, where WITHOUT even spending a skill point, guards/jugs get a 20% damage reduction and 4 sec cc immunity to ENSURE they can get into their rotation and don't have their closer WASTED as we do SO MANY TIMES. How come they get it and we don't??? Some one explain that to me please...also consider this is FOUR SECONDS of CC immunity EVERY 15 seconds (force leap timer) or less, if a force push is used to reset. This alone explains a HUGE chunk of the damage difference I see between sents and jugs in WZs. Juggs are basically cc immune up to 25% of the time with this ONE PASSIVE SKILL that doesn't even require a utility point spent. It should be a standard JK utility for both advanced classes, or a standard JK trained passive FOR BOTH CLASSES.

Pretty much this...what we have now is just stupid and poor design....You should not have to disqualify yourself from the daily to try and complete the weekly...imagine if WZs worked that way...its just stupid, and ill-conceived.

This is the nature of games that rely on gear treadmills instead of real content development. Few operations, long long treadmill. Thats why these games disgust people and lose players. Gear treadmills are stupid and unimaginative mechanics that are about as inventive as putting a carrot on a stick.

Yeah, I could do that, but its stupid. Before today, they were in their OWN category, which made perfect sense. You selected that category, got the daily, no matter which of the missions you got in the category, and made progress towards the weekly. That is the way it should be. Now it is a mess.

As of today, Rishi and Bloodhunt are grped with the other 55 Tactical FPs...problem is they are still the only ones that contribute to the weekly...so if you select only them, you don't get the daily for them. So to do the weekly, you miss out on the daily...and btw, the daily for them has been nerfed down to basic comms. Nice touch. Surely this cant be intended....

A simple summary would be that sent/mara, as a melee, resource building style class, is particularly susceptible to CC and other time on target issues. Yet the class has nothing, certainly nothing beyond other ranged classes, that really mitigates these inherent deficiencies. Try playing a serenity shadow. Try taking on a Jug...or a sniper now...literally snipers bunker up, so no leap, slow us, dps wail on us, and if we force camo or manage to close, period, then can quick roll away and reset their cover...basically you have little to no chance. Same with a Jug....their DCDs are superior, their damage as good or BETTER...so you have little chance...and have little to offer in the mix of classes. Sent/mara's would never, ever be picked on the MMO playground. So a class that has inherent design challenges is currently suffering from some of the feeblest and MOST uninspired design in the game.

What you're ignoring is the inherent weaknesses in having to be in melee range...and STAY in melee range, in a game with more CC than believable, and with having a building resource mechanic...again, meaning you have to get in melee and use "building" skills a lot of the time. Serenity Shadows, and many other classes in this game have NO such constraints. Melee is at a huge disadvantage in this game. Sents have LITTLE, comparatively, to overcome the innate disadvantages - melee range and resource building - that so many other classes just don't have to worry about.

I think the point is that it is stupid to play a class that puts teams your are on at a blatant disadvantage. There is nothing skillful about playing an underpowered class. In fact, one could easily argue that the first measure of skill is picking a class that gives you the best chance to win and support your team. If all things were equal, balance would be a bigger factor in this game - in other words, it would exist - and it would be about your strengths and preferences as a player...instead, it IS all about poor design and large imbalance between classes. Challenging, yeah, perhaps. Also frustrating and disadvantageous. Its like one guy getting an M-4 and the other a slingshot. For a game to be fun, it has to be fair, and in MMOs that means balance has to be something other than a foreign concept...i

Wow, like I said, the best of watchman and combat...dot and burst, add in great cc, STEALTH, utility, and range... again, I would rather see other classes brought up...There are so many obvious ways to improve sent...especially combat sent... On a more general note, there is WAY too much CC in this game...it is ridiculous...anything that lessens it is a step in the right direction...melee classes that have to BUILD resource and maintain proximity to their target SHOULD BE INHERENTLY LESS SUSCEPTIBLE TO CC, otherwise you get the craptasm of imbalance we are seeing now...

Seriously...compare it to Serenity Shadow...basically its like taking the best parts of watchman (dots and dot spreading) and Combat (spike damage procs), improving the defenses, adding stealth, giving them better range, better cc's, AND all without a building resource mechanic (focus.rage). Its feast versus famine. And NO, I'm not saying nerf shadow, you yutz's... For example...Deflection vs Saberward...each classes two main DCDs...deflection is on a 2 minute timer, saber ward 3 minute...but each last 12 seconds...deflection has this utility called sturdiness, where for those 12 seconds, you are IMMUNE to just about all cc's. IMMUNE. This is exactly what sentinel needs...something that lets them stay on target to build focus, and go through a rotation for a flippin change, instead of cc-a-palooza as soon as I leap into range. Plus STEALTH...STEALTH and resilience and force cloak. Its like Force camo only 10x better. And it comes with spinning kick to cc and again get into your rotation largely uninterrupted...then there is always mind maze... DoT application...Force in Balance...spread DoTs from 30m away...Sever Force 30m range...Force Breach 10m range...what does watchman have to do to spread dots??? Build resource, get in range, hit with cauterize, force melt, then get a force sweep off....without getting hit by one of the 5 billion forms of cc in the game while you are trying to get the rotation off....a snowball has a better chance....and what is the damage bonus for having to overcome these melee constraints? NONE, they do the SAME DAMAGE pretty much... But what about Guarded by the Force??? Yeah, it doesn't give you any cc immunity, so basically, it is assisted suicide, where you take half your health away, while you are still stunned and just get to watch more enemy vfx weapon fire hit you for a few seconds until you finally die...all the while any heals you get are everything but a complete waste...probably the worst dcd in the game...I mean, its stupid bad... But what, Shadows are in light armor you say...yeah, except they have a utility trait that increases that by 30%...if you even feel you need to take it... I mean, it would be funny, if this wasn't all so true and glaring. Want to see what sentinels are complaining about? Want to see how to make it better? Play a Serenity Shadow. Basically my serenity shadow can double my sents damage...easy. And is a helluva lot more fun to play...oh yeah, and a 3 second precision window in this lagfest of a game is one of the stupidest design choices I've ever seen in 13 years of MMO play. Ever. Really. Its right up there with removing crippling throw...from a melee class...that has to compete with ranged classes...that have more cc than we do... We are stuck with cookie cutter builds now...no more hybrids...so where is this better ability to balance these classes at? Did it get lost somewhere in the blandness and lack of choice?

I agree, except the build up to get into range, build focus, apply two dots, then spread them, all the while depending on your enemy to be stupid enough to stay clustered...while not cc'ing, knocking you back, or simply killing you...is just too complicated of a one trick pony to pull off compared to what the other classes get to dish out. I am guessing you are playing serenity shadow...they have a similar spreading DoT technique...except they get to do it ALL FROM RANGE, with NO resource building mechanic...with stealth...and better utilities...it is just infinitely easier...

Ya know, I don't...they gutted any customization from the classes in 3.0, with what was essentially a massive dumbing down designed to remove ANY hope of hybrids or customizing your toon, even if illusorily, into something that fitted your playstyle better than cookie cutter. So why play a class that underperforms by design, gimping yourself and your team??? So I can suffer through, and it is suffering to play something this inept, twice as many matches to get my daily/weekly??? Now, with only cookie cutter, there is no EXCUSE...NONE for this kind of crap imbalance. And that is exactly what we are dealing with here...poor design, and imbalance by design. Removing crippling throw was one of the biggest head up arse moves ever. GBTF removing half your health while not giving you CC immunity is another. So I get to live longer, by a few seconds while CC'd and completely ineffectual. Brilliant. I have ZERO tolerance for that in a game with nothing but gutted, cookie cutter classes. If they cant balance that, then gtf home. You get shredded before you can even get a hit in...I STRONGLY suggest somebody with some control over design play a sent or mara for a few weeks, EXCLUSIVELY. If they cant figure out there is a problem after that, they should find a new line of work. This crap makes me feel stupid for playing this class, what should be a premier dps class, and thus STUPID for playing this game. Hint to EAWare, if you want people to pay you money every month, not the way to go. Sent is my main, rolled on Launch day...and I keep leaving this game for this very reason...piss poor design and broken dev promises. Plus pure themeparks with unimaginative end game are inherently feeble. That is why this game is a shadow of what it should have been. Broken promises and poor design. Looks like I'll be leaving it again. I shouldn't have to change classes to be competitive or not feel like an idiot for playing my main. You have a melee class with a RESOURCE BUILDING MECHANIC. Which means they HAVE TO HAVE time on target. They need tools to avoid CC and stay in melee range to be even a hint of viable...instead these devs are in a nonstop race to put MORE AND MORE CC into a game that has so much, along with one of the worst CC overload mechanics in their craptastic resolve system, that I HAVE EVER SEEN ANYWHERE IN 35 years of gaming. Getting multiple kinds of cc's from a couple of ranged classes that shred you before you can gap close....over and over and over...and knock you back and root you if you ever do gap close...is SIMPLY. NO. FUN. What is just as bad, Ranged classes hit EVERY BIT AS HARD as melee, with NO RESOURCE building mechanic, and NO RANGE LIMITATION. They get rooted? big deal...no dps drop. They get slowed 5m away from target? NO PROBLEM, no dps drop. They never manage to get in 5m range? NO PROBLEM, no dps drop. Whereas we just get no dps unless in that 5m range. Again, its like bringing a knife to a gunfight. If you cant get jedi classes right in an MMO, after years, and bring some inspiration and some real art to their design, you should get a different job. Period. This crap is inexcusable, especially after this cookie cutter overhaul craptasm. NO MORE HYBRIDS, SO WHERE IS THE BALANCE??? Sent play experience has NEVER been worse than this...how can you REACH A LOW, making things worse than ever??? In a years old game, with VERY FEW CLASSES, where you started OUT with mirroring to cheat on design and simplify things, NOW EVEN CHEAPER by ALL COOKIE CUTTER builds. The stupidity is infuriating. If I have to shelve a dual lightsaber wielding jedi to play a flippin pew pew vanguard or slinger in a star wars game, why not just shelve the whole @#$% thing??? If you cant provide a satisfying, competitively designed jedi, keeping the star wars label simply makes you look more inept.

Same same

Let's face it, the game has always been CC heavy, and the Resolve timer is a dubious mechanic to ameliorate them. Now, however the game in my opinion has reached a tipping point for sents. I see VERY few of us in 60 pvp...and I understand why. Powertechs/Vanguards melt us. Slingers/snipers....we cant leap to them, they slow us, when we do get in range, they knock us back, snare...dead. Sorcs/Sages have stuns, knockbacks with root, bubble pops, force run away, and force bubble, if we do happen to get in range and start doing some damage to them. Then against Juggers, we seem to be underpowered. Playing a sent feels like bringing a knife to a gunfight. Sins have stealth, cc, spike damage, all of which is independent of the "building" resource mechanic sents have with focus/rage...we have to get to the target and build focus in order to build up to othe rmore powerful attacks...meanwhile its CC palooza, which means we have very little uninterrupted time on target to actually do something. It feels like the combat team simply doesn't understand melee. We have to have time on target. They took away crippling throw, one of our few ranged attacks, making us EVEN MORE dependent on melee range time on target. Ranged is so much simpler. Our closer is on a timer, AND our closer is counterable with cover and knockbacks. And stuns, and more other types of CC than God would care to come up with... Maybe I am missing something...but it seems to me, in the current pvp environment, our time on target, what little we get of it, has...HAS to be more damaging, OR we need some additional defense/CC immunity. Ranged is just chewing us to pieces...They don't have cooldowns before they can start damaging us. Saber ward helps some...but not enough. Guarded by the force is assisted suicide...usually you are still slowed or cc'd somehow, so it is doing NOTHING for you except giving you a few more seconds to watch vfx hitting you before you die. At a minimum we should have complete CC immunity while Guarded is up, with its VERY long timer, so we can actually do some damage before we take half our health away...what a stupid mechanic. Force camo...I am using it more as a closer than as an escape...and its timer is ill suited for that... What am I missing? Its seems other classes have moved forward, and sents have gained nothing in the "arms race" of enhancements given to other classes.

Think about it from a coding perspective...nothing changes except the animation the client calls...none of the "ranks" matter....low level force lightning or pebblestorm look identical to high level because the SAME animation is used. Also, remember I tried to limit my suggestions to animations that are ALREADY in the game in animation files. Will some work be needed...sure...but I specifically tailored my proposal to minimize it. Also, consider the very NATURE of this game...they mirrored classes with the same skills and merely slapped different animation on top of them....pebblestorm = force lightning except for different animations, for example. Project = Shock, etc. If anything, this game in particular, with its mirror class paradigm specifically lends itself to slapping new animation skins on top of existing abilities...that is in fact how the whole game was built...

That is a cool idea for a saber throw, but would require some real skill in additional animation creation.... also, even as you like project, others hate it, but like pebblestorm...this is why alternate, optional animations are the only way to go, I believe.

meh, we are basically saying the same thing... I would add this...if the devs are saying, which apparently they are, that they aren't concerned with the archetypes from the movies and they don't mind deviation from them, then I would fully expect them to embrace something like emerald lightning as an alternate for pebblestorm. If they aren't going to concern themselves with the "norms" then they need to recognize that approach is bothersome to people who pay attention to the IP, AND they need to offer them other choices.

Right, the IP is not the problem...without the IP, this game would likely be dead already. The divergence from the IP is the problem. This isn't WOW where they get to make up the mythos as they go, and the ink isn't dry. This is the most known, most beloved sci fi IP EVER....EVER...and jedi are the most iconic hero archetype in all of scifi....EVER...so making jedi reskinned sith that do what we have seen sith do, is the problem....

And it shouldn't be based on everything we have seen in the higher levels of canon for the IP...that is the point. In an IP based game, the IP matters.

That is incorrect, everything about fighting and combat is not inherently aggressive...for examples...blocking...wrist.or joint locks that are used to immobilize...etc. There are combat moves, a lot of them, that are inherently DEFENSIVE. Plenty of them. Look at it this way....in the lore of the movies sith threw things about 100x more than jedi. In this game, sith throw nothing, and jedi throw junk and rocks ad nauseam....its backwards. Now, that isn't to say that no jedi ever threw something with the force....but it is not their fundamental, signature, legacy move. That is about as simple as I can make it.

No problem. I see it as a philosophical issue between jedi and sith. We know that jedi use the force "for knowledge and defense" and are taught to avoid aggression. On the otherside, anger and aggression are the hallmarks of the sith. Think about the jedi code versus the sith code. Think about what those codes tell us about how a jedi would approach a fight versus how a sith approaches a fight. Throwing something at someone is an inherently aggressive move. It is a move out of anger, when you want to hurt someone by hitting them with something. Contrast that with say pushing someone back away from you...which could be seen as an inherently defensive move. It is no mistake that we see jedi use force push predominantly as a ranged move. Now, are these absolutes...no. But their philosophies should and do inform us as to what themes to expect from them in combat, and indeed they do, and we are CLEARLY shown adherence to those themes in 12 hours of movies that represent the ultimate canon for the IP. Another way I look at it, which I think is very appropriate, is the contrast between soft martial arts and hard martial arts. Soft martial arts focus on using the enemies aggression, weight, momentum, etc. against him. Like aikido, or judo...Hard martial arts focus on more aggressive, direct attacks, like punches and kicks...karate, tae kwon do, etc. I see the same philosophical difference in how to approach combat as I mentioned above between sith and jedi. Now, does this mean you aren't going to get punch or kicked after you get thrown? No, of course not. But the styles and their approaches to combat are fundamentally different. So again, my main problem with jedi as junk tossers, with junk tossing and pebblestorm as their hallmark and legacy abilities, is that it is what Sith do, and fits in with their philosophy, as we have seen over and over and over. Now your argument that it is only "one" consular in the story, is a straw man. This is an MMO, where the class has been played by tens of thousands and seen played by millions of players. It is an archetype, like it or not. An archetype that breaks with all the previous ones, and therein lies the problem. It breaks with them because BW wanted to save time and money and mirrored the classes, then did a crap job of reskinning some jedi skills, after making the sith first, then cloning them to make jedi. JEDI ARE NOT SITH CLONES, and extra care needed to be taken in the look and feel of the class to ameliorate this clone issue. It was not. So we have jedi throwing rocks, junk and pebbles, which they virtually NEVER did in the movies or in the other licensed games.