I can stack buffs and hit that high on light armor targets with no expertise. Almost full champion. Most classes can actually do that with the proper buffs. They didn't truly fix buff stacking yet. My average is closer to 4k though, when playing equally geared folks.

It is simple math. Look at your Hidden Strike tooltip. It will give a damage range. Take the highest number. Multiply it by your critical multiplier + 30% from talents. That is the max, unbuffed crit you can do - assuming 0 mitigation on the target (which is never the case)

Fix, to me, means minor modifications. That whole tree needs redone, with some actual thought this time. The healing tree needs to have abilities that set it apart from other, much better, healing trees within other classes. It's just not going to happen. Just reroll if you plan to do any PvE content otherwise you'll just do subpar DPS at the expense of your operations team.

3 seconds, mr. expert of the game

Sorry bro, but scoundrel/operative gets the nerf bat so people can always survive them when they have the jump. No one should die because another class has an advantage over them, haven't you been reading the forums?

The problem for both players and game makers is, that no one seems to take in to account the ENTIRE class. They just look at damage numbers. So 3 months from now, after all the various nerfs, the best class will be the DPS class with the best defensive cooldowns as damage will be balanced only by damage numbers and nothing more taken in to consideration. This recent nerf is just the car swerving down that road.

Gabe - the Fairfax office is 15 minutes from me. How about an invite over to help balance operatives?

Without assassin utility and execute? What you're saying is operative will be a gimped assassin.

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. The only way my pvp geared op can see even 5.6K is with buff stacking and on poorly geared targets. I need +1k power from buffs (along with passive biochem +cunning/power boost from stim) and my +11% expertise bonus for that to happen. Other classes can do the same damned thing with buffs too, look around on youtube. You're dismissed.

Using logic to defend damage output was the path of the operative/scoundrel prior to the incoming nerfs. I wish you luck.

Am I the only one that watched him get an item he didn't already have and say "that lucky !@#"? I have a large surplus of centurion commendations. I wonder who has the most?

Like combat logs?

Argh - this post wasn't specifically about operatives. It was about ALL classes. If DPS vs DPS meant 10 seconds battles. Is that reasonable? If DPS vs Tank meant 15 second battles. Is that reasonable? If DPS vs Healer meant 20 second battles. Is that reasonable? The glaring point is that Bioware is looking at how much time it takes for a player to kill another player, as a point of balance. Specifically to operatives though, this means that burst is anathema to this model. They want to slow damage down and make fights longer. Expect a lot more nerfs to come.

What about champion/BM geared heavy armor healers that are like trying to take down boss mobs? Is there such a thing as "longer than intended survival in PvP"? We need to get consistent thinking and action from Bioware or this game will become a ping-pong of nerfs.

Based on the 1.1.1 patch notes, it appears Bioware has some sort of number (time) for how long it should take for some one to die under fire. (The quote: "enabling significantly faster than intended kills in PvP") My questions are: 1. Is PvP too fast paced now? 2. How fast should people die in 1v1, 2v1, 2v2, 3v1, etc? If any class can kill someone in under 10 seconds, is this ground for a nerf - regardless of gear or level?

Sorry, using facts didn't work for the operatives. Sorcs are next up.

Bioware/players, The dilemma with the upcoming patch is that Bioware needs to decide, now, if Operative is to be considered a class which solely focuses on burst damage or not. What basically has happened is that pvp encounters have been extended in time. This opens up a slew of disadvantages that were not addressed. - Given the current nerf, energy regen will suffer hugely because more abilities will need to be executed to attain the same damage. A 15k opponent will still have 15k HP after patch 1.1.1, which will require MORE execution of abilities to do 15k damage. - Since operatives have only a snare to keep people in range and now that people will quite easily survive the length of the snare, where is the gap closer? - Since operatives are already squishy, where is the buff/addition of a defensive ability to ensure they can actually survive the artificial extension of battle time? If operatives lose burst, it must be made up for elsewhere or this is a death sentence to an already underrepresented class. Also, make the Lethality tree useful for pvp. It is truly garbage. It shouldn't be a gimped version of the sniper tree with less range.

The problem with the nerf, that everyone should be concerned with, is that it wasn't merely "toning" down a class. The operative class was built around quick kills (burst) bringing little utility to a group setting. You bring an operative to do damage, not to carry a ball or use defensive cooldowns to help the team. Without the added utility, where does that leave them? Anyways, the big concern for every one should be the poorly thought out tuning. The next class that gets posts on the forums by non-50, poorly geared, etc should expect the same treatment. No thoughts given to the long-term viability, just a sharp nerf to appease the community. Mark my words.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=203935 Bioware responds with, essentially, using your PVP unassembled relic to buy PVE a relic was by design. I think the truth is that they have no way to fix the situation, so instead of just saying so they claim it was by design. I'm not sure what would be worse... the lying or the inept design.

The entire system is flawed. Everything should be based on commendations and rank. Centurion = Level 50, any rank Champion = Valor rank 40 Battlemaster = Valor rank 60 If you pvp to rank 40, you then should have a full set of Centurion and some commendations banked to get Champion equipment when you hit valor 40. The progression should be pretty clear and not based on randomness.

I opened a ticket yesterday. They didn't even respond to it and just closed it. Awesome customer service.

It wasn't a backpedal, it was me mocking the folks who don't use consistent thinking. I like facts. They are hard to argue. What is happening is that you and others are ignoring the basic premise of observation. Look at the level. Look at the items equipped. Look at the HP (direct correlation to gear). What is ACTUALLY being said/requested is that a battlemaster geared operative, using consumables, should be nerfed because he can beat multiple unequally geared (and based on observations from the video, drastically) players. In some cases they just sit there and take a beating without any reaction. How about you ask questions, such as: What does your tooltip say for hidden strike damage? What is your critical multiplier at? How much expertise do you have? What buffs were active and what damage boost do they give? You'll get a precise number for the amount of maximum damage that can be done. Then you take in to account all the passive and active damage boosts and reducers. It's pretty damned simple, but people come on here emotionally charged and investigating the facts is not a priority. If the facts are reviewed, it will then become hard for any one to argue for or against them, depending on what the data shows.

Why would we use hard facts now, since you and plenty of others have been ignoring them thus far? Actually, it is pretty easy to see what armor/items they have equipped. Also, no titles. Since you're now interested in more quantitative data, how about you find an operative on your server and runs some tests. That would be more productive.

Not worth it. 3k damage hits it would only be reduced by 120 points. The 1 point talented stim boost probably provides overall better mitigation through the healing (100HP/second for me, overall). Getting rid of the shiv damage means you'll take slightly longer (good luck quantifying it overall) to kill some one, so at the best you'd break even but I am doubtful here. I think the 10% shiv damage is necessity for any concealment build.

Battlemaster geared operative: Check Buff stacking: Check Under 50 / Undergeared Targets: Check QQ from people who don't understand game mechanics: Check