http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/pub-en-2991f4f06eecad56c659be85d041607c.html

Oh man. I laughed so hard I started crying

I'm a BM, but I don't have full BM (just a few items thus far). I looked at my #s for a normal damage rotation that happens over about 10 seconds and, assuming half crit, 1650 DPS. (Debilitate and Sever Tendon were included as they pretty much always are used) I looked at a merc BM spamming tracer missiles. Assuming half of theirs crit - 2733 DPS. They probably do outgear me by a bit, but nothing that would account for a 1k DPS difference (even if the crit rate was lowered) Just a thought.

A stealthed op walking to a target does 0 dps. A ranged class almost always can engage a target quickly. The question is... which one is better and why?

Well, I was being sarcastic to make my point. The other classes have gap closers and knockbacks for a reason. The same reason an operative would use them. Also, I am not a healer. If I were a healing type player, I wouldn't be an operative healer for sure.

So which classes will lose their gap closers and knockbacks? It seems pretty homogeneous except for operatives. I feel doubly bad for an operative healer, their escape mechanism puts a healing debuff on them.

You're comparing something with a 12 second cooldown to damage people can do within 12 seconds? What else are they doing in those 12 seconds? You know that is such a b.s. comparison.

It's worth pointing out, under the new system (when patched): 1. 30 chances at a champion item (lower droprate) 2. 450 Centurion commendations 3. 210 Champion commendations That is almost a full set of gear in a week. Let's just mail people gear every morning.

You'd be much better off leveling a true ranged class than playing lethality. It is as simple as that. It has such a gimpy and non-intuitive mechanic that most folks just won't bear it, and rightfully so. If they lowered energy costs, provided more range (upper level talent), and gave a decent (ranged) TA generation ability it would be more fun and less micro-managing. Since you've played it for a while, it would be worth posting some suggestions on how to make the spec more appealing (viable).

That'd be a cool idea if we had a gap closer, force run, and a knockback. A 2m cd (cloaking screen) is basically for all of those.

Just like you farmed the 10-49 bracket (cause talent points and abilities mean nothing), it is your turn to be farmed once again.

If hidden strike were an aoe that could do 10k buffed damage they might have a point.

I wish I could bring some of you to geared premade games and laugh when you get torn apart and get left out of the game 50% of the time because of timed knockbacks or being focus fired out of stealth or "tapped" to keep you in combat. Operatives are mediocre now. Before we at least could surprise a geared person huddled with their team. Yeah, I can dominate poorly geared folks and do pretty decently in 1v1 against certain classes. When it comes to team play, we aren't that great.

I'm BM and replacing 2 centurion items (I've opened more than 100 bags). I'm not worried about those items. One will be replaced with my next BM commendation, hopefully today. You're missing the point here. This is NOT about me specifically. It is about people who suffered the crappy RNG system and have little to show for it - not even centurion items. Having the ability to trade back items for the tokens would have little impact on the overall pvp health, but it would go a long way for saying sorry to people who opened countless bags and got nothing.

If they want, they can sell their champion gear back to the vendor for 7 champion commendations and 14 centurion commendations. I doubt they would though. At that point the commendations would be meaningless, unless you could trade a ratio of them in for a higher tier commendation.

That is a good point. If you were one of the "lucky" people who got champion items every other bag, then it wouldn't be fair to provide additional reward. Although the ability to sell items back to the vendor for 7 champions commendations/14 centurion commendations would be meaningless to them. The BM system is not being changed with the patch, so it will still be RNG.

I'd be ok with that, considering the amount of bags I have opened would result in a surplus of champion commendations.

For me, personally? It doesn't matter much. I'll still be ahead in terms of equipment. It is the principle that they are punishing the people who played under the lousy RNG system. There are folks who opened 30+ bags and got nothing. How is that fair to them? It is really easy to compensate them, but I think a lot of new 50s are posting in here that want them punished simply because it would put them ahead of themselves. It's ridiculous.

Except that Ilum was for valor and not for commendations, which has nothing to do with this thread.

You're just grasping for random nonsense now. What damage would be done if people could "sell" champion items back to the vendor for 7 champion commendations and 14 centurion commendations?

Right, but balance inherently means equal footing. If you've invested more time than someone else, it isn't balanced to give them equal rewards. So really, just answer this question (for all the naysayers): What damage would be done to allow selling items back to the vendor for 7 champion commendations and 15 centurion commendations (we'll make it 14 to be fair, since you get 1 from a bag with your duplicate item)? If you can provide a legitimate reason I will listen.

Are you missing the point where I worked the extra hours? Obviously. Your time should be equal to my time, and vice versa. If it is not, you are getting a hand out. Maybe that is what Bioware wants, but it is a simple fix to implement so the people who got hosed from the RNG system are on equal footing in terms of TIME INVESTMENT. If you don't see this, then you yourself do not want fairness. It is simple.

27 empty bags would have yielded you: Old system: 81 Centurion Commendations New System: 405 Centurion Commendations 189 Champion Commendations Tell me what system you would have wanted your time spent under

You work in a position that pays $50 per hour. You work 40 hours per week, 4 weeks per month. You make 8000 per month. Some one else starts working 2 weeks after you, and still makes 8000, even though they did not put in the extra 80 hours.

I'm BM still trying to replace centurion items. Move to the back of the hardship line.