The reason we wiped on 16man was because the other tank couldn't get up most of the times so it's probably due to lack of taunt.

Swipe is f/t in nim and weapon dmg in hm/sm as far as I understand. Trasher is probably the hardest fight for a sin atm. It is really spiky, cycling cds help but as usuall only the adrenal and overcharge are actually gauranted. Also since self healing doensn't scale with incoming dmg the mean migation difference is much lower, I saw some math in another thread suggesting that vanguards actually have higher mean migation that sins on trasher nim. I really would like to see your parses if you never drop below half health when tanking trasher. Are you overgearing it or doing hm 8 man or sm? 16 man hm or 8/16 man nim will drop you below half health several times unless you have 45k+ health.

23-24k is what he normally spikes for in 16 man hm, I got shot by a sniper at the same time so got 28k dmg.

Sometimes there are refrences to various spikiness stories in the discussions but there is a lack of parses. It would be useful if we could make a collection of parses with various spikes. Personally I have only done DG, TWH and op9 in nim so far so dont't have many logs yet. A collection of these spikes will makes us have somethign to refer to in future discussions and get more hard evidence about the spikiness problem. It's not imporant if you survied or not or if the boss was beaten. The amount of dmg taken in a short timeframe is what is interesting. Both nim and hm parses can be of use. Assasin thread: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=672676 NIM TWH 8man 18.5k in 1.2 sec 20:13:16.839 The Writhing Horror's Melee Attack hits Drebi for 6218 kinetic damage, causing 6218 threat. 20:13:16.839 The Writhing Horror's Melee Attack hits Drebi for 6218 kinetic damage, causing 6218 threat. 20:13:17.977 The Writhing Horror's Nasty Bite glances Drebi for 2342 energy damage, causing 2342 threat. 20:13:17.992 The Writhing Horror's Nasty Bite hits Drebi for 4239 energy damage, causing 4239 threat. DG 8man 32.6k dmg in 1.5 s from Kelsara 21:16:43.933 Kel'sara's Voltaic Slash hits Drebi for 16167 energy damage, causing 16167 threat. (4801 absorbed) 21:16:45.430 Kel'sara's Force Scream hits Drebi for 16033 kinetic damage, causing 16033 threat. HM Trasher 16man 28k spike, sniper(4k)+swipe(24k)

It was from terminate so you can see the cast in advance and know that the assasin has to be at 100%. However neither I or the healers expected that much dmg. It is annoying but since it's so predictable it's more fine than trasher. It's not the end of the world if a tank dies from terminate but if trasher gets lose it's a wipe. The 28k dmg from trasher is actually worse because it can come at anytime.

You are forgetting a crucial point. survivability for dps in both pvp and pve are more about the cds than the armour especially in pve. You wan't to survive the bursts in pvp until your team can help you and burst the attackers down. It' doesn't matter if you take less dmg over 5 min when the figths in pvp lasts much shorter. What you wan't for that is good cds with short cd, like cloak of pain. For pve it's kinda the same thing but the cd of the defensive stuff is less important, its all about the potency. You need this for stuff were you have to take dmg(Kephess laser, kephess jump, twh adds, enrage/burn phases). Maruaders are extremly good at this today togheter with their high dps. I have seen several fights that was completed due to the fact that a maurder can tank the boss for 5-10 secs after the tank died. Usually if both tanks die the boss will go for the maurder due to their high dps which synergies even better. This is a also without losing any dps. A sorc can't just stand there healing themself and heavy armour won't do much that much but it do help. I do agree that the rage/focus question was pretty weird, its obvious why it isn't single target. All specs need to have their speciality, usually burst, sustianed, aoe, heal or tank. I just hate to see BW bring up the old execute agument again. I really expected some math/logs from the devs to prove their point but atm a troll on fleet argues better than them. They just write "it is like this" without any sort of evidence or arguing at all. The sniper/maurder answers were atleast decent.

I don't think so, dots brings you out not debuffs.

That worked due to cloak, not ressilience. There were lots of posts about this stuff during the gree event and I saw no one who claimed that resillience worked. I also tried it, didn't work and switched to los with phase walk.

You won't take dmg from the laser but you get the stacks. Phase walk is what you want to use on xeno.

Really nice thread:) Been trying to find info like this before without sucess. Some stuff that you think would work that doesnt: -Huge grenade on Nim is wonky, +def stuff doesn't seem to work on it. -acc seem to work though -Force shroud doesn't work against tfb scream -Operations chief will always make sure he gets the terminate off so now cloaking or losing works. Stuff that works: -Sunder is all f/t so force shroud/saber reflect works, there are also other places where it seems like it is an melee attack but it is f/t so saber reflect works. -You can cloak and use rest to heal after force leech on dg -Use sorc/sage bubble instead of the tank for kel dragons spines to reduce dmg taken. It is possiblet to do styrak with just one tank and have another dps instead. Requires more skill of the tank and dps but will make the dps check easier. A dps will need to pop cooldowns and tank for short times due to knockback and spines.

The difference in cooldown is short enough to vary rarely matter. You are also wrong about several of your examples. Titan 6 is weapon dmg in Nim and it doesn't work on Xeno anymore. There are also some cases were saber reflect works while force shroud doesn't like tfb scream. And due to its implemenation it doesn't suffer from the 5% chance bug.

Here it is: http://www.torparse.com/a/354683/22/0/Damage+Taken We switched to 8man later had no problems with the fight, the spike dmg dropped about 10k or so. I'm not sure how bad the spikiness was, I think I might have been killed by it a few times. Since we never got that far into the fight I am not sure how it would have been after my cds were out, we wiped at around 1 min into the fight. We were mainly wipeing because a lot of people had problems seeing the snipers at all and jumping to them, you know like when it takes 10+ secs to see the mailbox on the fleet.

Try trasher S&V hm 16 man with a an assasin in 69 gear. It will go splat without really good healers. I took 28k dmg there, swipe+sniper.

Force shroud doesn't work on huge greande in nim. Neither does deflection. Really doubt you done titan 6 nim on your shadow. So 2 out of 12 boses are good and that makes it fine? A few of the others seems pretty equal but a lot of the others are favoured towards the other 2.

Sometimes there are refrences to various spikiness stories in the discussions but there is a lack of parses. It would be useful if we could make a collection of parses with various spikes. Personally I have only done DG, TWH and op9 in nim so far so dont't have many logs yet. A collection of these spikes will makes us have somethign to refer to in future discussions and get more hard evidence about the spikiness problem. It's not imporant if you survied or not or if the boss was beaten. The amount of dmg taken in a short timeframe is what is interesting. Both nim and hm parses can be of use. Shadow thread: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6694516#post6694516] NIM TWH 8man 18.5k in 1.2 sec 20:13:16.839 The Writhing Horror's Melee Attack hits Drebi for 6218 kinetic damage, causing 6218 threat. 20:13:16.839 The Writhing Horror's Melee Attack hits Drebi for 6218 kinetic damage, causing 6218 threat. 20:13:17.977 The Writhing Horror's Nasty Bite glances Drebi for 2342 energy damage, causing 2342 threat. 20:13:17.992 The Writhing Horror's Nasty Bite hits Drebi for 4239 energy damage, causing 4239 threat. DG 8man 32.6k dmg in 1.5 s from Kelsara 21:16:43.933 Kel'sara's Voltaic Slash hits Drebi for 16167 energy damage, causing 16167 threat. (4801 absorbed) 21:16:45.430 Kel'sara's Force Scream hits Drebi for 16033 kinetic damage, causing 16033 threat. HM Trasher 16man 28k spike, sniper(4k)+swipe(24k)

2 best cds? Force shroud is good but saber reflect is better in most cases. Not sure which one you mean? Deflection? So its better than saber ward because it has 30 sec short cd? The selfhealing is part of the migation for the assasin, without it their migation is much worse. Stop talking about it like it's something that is over the normal migation. Also knocbacks can screw it up quiet often. Wither and force speed is nice but not super special. Sometimes force charge/interceed is better, sometimes forcespeed

I agree, I'm seeing 3+ color crystal missions all the time. Makes it hard to get power crystals or artificacts.

It's nice and good for the tanks but for dps it does nothing. Most of the times you will use it for teleport and that remains unchanged. The problem I have with phase walk more with these changes is how they are turning an telport ability more and more into a group buff ability. It's just wierd and lazy design. I except them to implement some similar talen to darkness for dps and then it will be final. The cd and casting time is just to much to ever make it useful for teleport more than very rarely due to the ****** uptime. Everything you can do with phase walk force speed usually does to and better.

Think its similar for all tanks. Possibly shadows have it slightly harder to due to having much more migation related to skills and talents than the others, especially hardness darkness.

Their are several problems with saber reflect, it is partially op but its more than that. It's a pretty weird skill that does a lot of everything. First I think BW needs to be clear about what mechanics should be cheesable and which shouldn't. It's strange that they change mechanics to make it more challeging/uncheasable while at the same time leaving saber reflect to work on said mechanics. Second that it used for aoe threat seems a bit weird and leaves the guardian in a bad place for aoe threat if it is down. Either chaning an existing abilty or adding a new one for aoe threat would be good. Not sure what you mean here, math can do a **** ton of stuff if done correctly and I don't see why you look down on it so much. There are also is a huge diffrence between 4*25% is 100%, and making assumptions and simplifications. One is just bad math and the other one is usually necessary to be able to do anything at all. Ofc you have to write and be clear about your assumptions. Also I haven't seen any good arugments against it, except for some pretty good ones from Thok-zeus. Most of the ones I seen have been full with annecdotes and low on hard evidence. But this is offtopic. There have been numbers on several occasions, there isn't any collection of them tough(making a collection would actually be a good idea) and but they are out their in the threads. Among them I rember a 40k dmg in 1.2 sec on twh nim and some similar numbers from the jumping frog in tfb. Or the fact that termiante 16 man nim is one shot. It's also easy to calculate how much more an assasin takes from a spike, if it kills the assasin or not is another question though. The part that worries me most however is how BW seems to not be reading the class forums at all and "rewarding" people for throwing tantrums. Another example is how there is a 10+ page thread about dark wards pretty ugly effect in the class forum and BW commented on the first page of a similar thread that was in general. They encourage bad behavour far to much and at times seem to have no clue what they are actually doing. They also seem to overdo nerfs and buffs.

Overload was and is very useful for interupting casts, especially on mobs that can't be interupted like Carvers in SV. Before if someone said something or you noticed it you could just overload as panic button, now you need to find the mob, face it and then overload. That takes time so you might be to late. I usually set that sort of targets as focus while dpsing other mobs and finding so when something happens and you need to switch, phasing the target can be tricky sometimes due to the cone.

Had this problem today in 8 man hm. We were using the 1 tank tactic and first the tank got in nightmare just as the dragon came back but he didn't en up in the nighmare with the tank. We wiped and the next time it happend again, but this time as you described here with kel dragon ending up with the tank in the nightmahre. Server Red eclipse

Any idea how much migation is lost if you would change to all shield augments?

Trasher is predictable in one way. His swipes comes at a set interval that switches between about 10 and 30 sec. So if its 10 seconds between two swipes, the next one will come about 30 sec later, the one after that 10 seconds later and so on. It seems to be random if it is the short or long interval at the start so its hard to actually know if its 10 or 30 until the next one. You will also barely notice an migated swipe while an unmigated does about 15-20k. Having some program that continously reads the combat log could probably warn you about the next swipe though based on the interval of the previous one. But since the cds can't be up for all of them anyway and you never know which ones will be unmigated it's pretty much impossible to forsee the spikes.

BW respones on first page while you haven't even notcied the 10 page thread? Great work...