Completely agree, whether it's damage or aoe cc. Sorcs just can't compete.

Yeah but the main problem is so are all the others - just look at the crazy buffs to operative healers for instance. They haven't made meaningful nerfs to the classes and specs that need it. Which to me, means relatively speaking we're no better off, and imo slightly worse off overall. Complaints aren't even limited to the things you mentioned which I agree with, but assassins' madness tree getting the dot buff when the target is under 30% and ours not. Sins getting the teleport? They have stealth already. They didn't give us shroud. They could have reverted sorc and merc stun back to 30m since you know, ranged dps, keeping the sin and powertech one at 10m. They gave juggernauts a damage reflect, now that to me is the "mage" like ability, and juggs really did not need yet another cooldown. Even dps jugs take forever to take down in wzs with their cooldowns already. They gave marauders another ranged attack? Like lolwut? They could have given sorcs group utility, but chose not to. There are many things they could have done and didn't.

Whatever dude, keep calling people bads, I go by the evidence. Sorc dps is a joke. It's poor in pve and pvp. If it wasn't so poor, rated teams would use them more. It has an absurdly high skill level for the performance. And no I don't want to quit whining until it's brought somewhat in line with other classes. Competitive it is not. The fact you remain oblivious to this, suggests you're the bad, not me.

Topping dps means nothing. Padded damage is all it is.

Only thing I'd say that Sooner didn't is that, 1) You can purge incinerate stacks, and if the tank isn't getting the interupts before 2 stacks then he's a bad tank. 2) you have to keep purging the virus things in the end fight. They build up and will do crazy damage, I tend to purge about 3-4 stacks on a person.

Says the class with the second best aoe mez in the game. The chain mezzing by knights and warriors is out of control

Yeah, must be my imagination then that classes like marauders and powertechs are simply outclassing sorcerers in dps for wzs, or operative healers are simply the better choice as a wz healer. Am I simply misremembering sorcs have been successively nerfed since 1.2? Guess so. Wow, I must really get my memory checked. And 2.0 might not be live, but PTS is a strong indication, and all I see are nerfs, because relatively speaking other classes get buffs too, and we are in a worse place. Bubble stun gone, instant whirlwind gone and instead of a proper defensive on a decent cooldown we get a stupid self-stun on 3m cooldown. And how often does Bioware change stuff on PTS to live? How about almost never. Brilliant. But hey you keep calling people bads and declaring sorcerers the FOTM OP class, must be working since you seem oblivious to the next round of incoming nerfs. Well done you! I'm glad you're happy.

Okay, so Bioware reads the forums, the classes that say they need buffs get nerfs (e.g. sorcs), and the ones that need nerfs, get buffs (e.g. maras). Hence the only conclusion I can draw to help us out is to vociferously complain about how overpowered we are. So, I guess spam the PTS forum with threads on how awesome sorcs are.

Well, I looked a the class creation bit of the game, and for Sith Inquisitor it says: "Where A Sith Warrior is rage, an Inquisitor is cunning. A master of force lightning and arcane arts, able to life one enemy in the air, stun another all the while attacking with lightsaber moves designed for maximum pain." So... where are the lightsaber moves for Sorcs Bioware?

Since maras are laughing about how rage is now incredibly strong and didn't get any meaningful nerf, I do not share your optimism and fully expect knights and warriors to continue roflstomping wzs. They've not given us shroud, they've taken away instant whirlwind, the couldn't be bothered to make it so our dots don't break the whirlwind either. And like you say they give a class with an execute something that should have been given to sorcs. Force bubble is meh. I'd much rather have had a straight damage reflection for 4s then that useless ability. But no they give that sort of thing to Juggs, like they need ANOTHER defensive. They already take forever to kill, even in dps specs. So no, I don't share your optimism, but hey things are looking up for everyone except Sorcs. Good right?

At this point, I'm not surprised. Kinda sad the class that needs it doesnt get it, but hey ho, that's how Bioware "balances" sorcs, ie get the nerf bat out and ram it hard into unwelcome orifices.

Seriously? Every wz with knights and smugs, get chain mezzed by flashbangs, awes and we don't even get an instant SINGLE target mez anymore, never mind removing it not affecting players lower with the talent lower down in madness. This is just .... words fail at this point, beyond retarded.

what you thought Bioware were going to help sorcs lol? But yeah par for the course, nerf the hybrid specs some more, with 31 point talents that STILL suck. GG Bioware.

And those wishing to ignore the obvious will continue to do so. It completely misses the fundamental concerns with sorc pvp. Way too much set up, non existent burst and joke dots. This hasn't changed. All this does is keep you up for however long you got it channeled. Big deal.

Meh, big effin deal. So unlike other classes' defensives, we get to stand still and do jack whilst we channel it. This is not what I wanted in any way. This so called defensive does nothing to deter people attacking you, it's just ignore, until you stop channelling and you're going to be roflstomped on afterwards. And I bet within a month when the knights and warriors QQ about their smash toys not working this will be nerfed to the ground. Why don't we have shroud like we should you know as the "force masters". Why do Juggernauts and Guardians get the damage reflect, when that is thematically an ability for a "mage" class? Have they addressed sorc dps in pvp in any meaningful way? No. Have they nerfed lolrauders? No. Have they made us even more useless against tanks? Yes. Have they made PVE dps competitive? Oh wait, guess what? No. It's sad, did 16Man Xeno HM last night, at the end of the fight the two carnage marauders had over 100k more damage dealt than the sorcs in that fight. You think this patch is going to change any of that? It seems to me, they have read and ignored, or just ignored our complaints, done their own thing again and crapped on the Inquisitor and Consular classes. I've got a 50 marauder, I might as well start pvping on it, coz that's where it's at. I am at the point where I truly think Bioware just don't care about sorcerers, and I'm done trying to fight an uphill battle and being ignored when legitimate concerns are raised.

That's not what bothers me per se, although of course, we do need a much needed buff and defensive (like where the f*@~ is our shroud?), it's rather will they bring classes like lolrauder and the knight/warrior class in general back to a reasonable place? And my thinking is that they won't, so we'll get a buff, they get one too, and we're still the same relatively speaking.

*cough*Conceal Op/Scrapper Scounrdrel*cough*

Tumult... is conditional on the target being incapacitated, and a level 28 ability, hardly the same as the ones I mentioned which you learn before you pick an AC for agents and bounty hunters, the comparable abilities for us being thrash and sabre strike.

Snipers have shiv, mercs have rocket punch, and let's not forget when we were back on Korriban or Tython, when sabre strike and thrash/double strike, was one of our core ways of dispatching foes. So, why are they thrown out of the window and apparently we forget how to use them when we chose our AC? Snipers and Mercs certainly didn't "forget" their melee abilties. It's not entirely unreasonable should we find ourselves in melee range that we should be able to still use thrash with willpower to damage using it. The even stupider thing is that Strength adds damage to it, but our mainstat does not. No, there is no logical reason for things the way they are. And it's not like melee classes don't get ranged abilities.

why not indeed? Why can't we use the force to defend ourselves like other classes can? Lot's of "whys", no answers.

Yes, it will. The campaign armouring itself carries the set bonus.

lol, we can't even use the force as well as the other force users (resilience, camo, guarded by bioware... sorry the force etc etc etc), despite being the ones that use the "force master" set,and you want to use a lightsabre as well? I totally agree, but sorcs/sages have been designed to be pve healers only, and there is little hope that this will change. Yeah tumult is pointless, we don't get resilience, where's our "dancing sabre attack" or something?

Opposite actually, hits hard up front, but dot ticks are lowest, so you want affliction, creeping terror to get most of em.

yeah, they will since they are not bound to a slot and carry no set bonus to overwrite the rakata/columi/tionese shells.

Mind Crush and Shock don't hit that hard. A sin's shock hits harder, with ways to guarantee a crit. Death Field, okay, but why is it the only AoE that hits 3 instead of 5 (afaik please point out the others)? And again alot more AoEs hit harder than it does.