They're (premades) why she doesn't play. Premades were pretty obnoxious before the introduction of the 8man premade experiment, but I am not going to begrudge "playing with friends," or however people want to style it, when premades are limited to 4man. Why was it good for 10+ years, but suddenly 4man premades are a thing of the past? Bioware knows it's a problem else they would not have commented on it. However, the best solution and their solution are light-years apart. There are three things that combine to produce an awful pvp experience in this game: 8man premades deserter debuff (of any kind, no matter how lenient)* unlimited pvp decoupled from subscription status* Remove any one of those and PvP becomes less odious. Remove the 8man premades alone and you may see people return to pvp. Let's not forget how AWFUL the matchmaking* is in the game; no healer on one team, where the other team has healers and tanks. Premades exacerbate this. The queue prioritizes speed over quality, which is baffling. Just last night I saw someone asking, on the fleet, for people to queue for pvp. It appears 8man premades and other factors* are negatively affecting queues. As stated in another post, I would not object to Bioware telling me to go touch grass because I would know that it is time to move on. Right now the game stubbornly keeps me...around, albeit only a couple of hours a week which is an significant uptick in play time over past months. But, as I have been very clear, I am not subscribed. Subscription lapses in April. April is nearly here. If I had known the game would be in this state 5 months ago when my 6 month subscription renewed I would have quit then. Perhaps I do not understand. You're suggesting that limiting the number of pvp games that people who are not subscribed (not paying) can play is somehow costing Bioware money? In the event I poorly communicated my point: people who are not subscribed (not paying) should have a limit placed on the number of games they're able to play in a day/week.

My guess is that it would far easier support a solo queue over a premade queue.

I suspect that is the of pool players from which these premades are formed. If I am right they're not paying, but they're playing and making their presence felt. Were premades (8man) not an issue, I would not begrudge Bioware permitting f2p or preferred (whatever the status) from doing pvp as often as they like.

5/20/60 minutes as I remember reading awhile ago. Still crap. Still unsubscribed, and will continue to be so until this absurdity is removed. I'll still play, and might even pvp. But I ain't paying for it. Either I won't log in again or I will just do pve stuff. Not sure. Depends on where my mood takes me. We need: removal of deserter debuff 8man reduced to 4man maximum for regular warzones better matchmaking pvp limited to 5 matches unless subscribed I will keep beating this drum until something these issues are addressed to satisfaction or I am no longer permitted to post. First come, first done.

For the longest time I could not be bothered trying to gear because I grew tired of learning new systems every expansion. Then I had it explained to me as though I were 5 years old...and I subsequently forgot because I have the memory of a 5 year old and the object permanence of a 2 year old.

I rarely use it for the 50% dr in pve. Of course, I don't do anything above flashpoints. As for the massive loss, wasn't that before everyone knew that Defel was made to be worthless?

That genuinely made me laugh. I can see your point. Much of the content and even the story feel perfunctory these days.

Defel Spliced Genes has been rendered worthless. Don't understand the complaint about FC. It's a stopgap at best in PvP and virtually worthless in pve.

This escaped me. Thank you for pointing it out. Basically makes: kinda pointless.

Many will only do a thing if there is a reward for it. They may have been attempting to bring tank and healer mains that have done pvp in the past, to do it again. Without a title attached to it, though, the achievement(s) are less likely to tempt people.

There are levels to it. S tier players should not be matched against anything lower than A tier. Grossly imbalanced matches are happening ALL too often, and under a system (8man premades, deserter debuff, unlimited pvp matches regardless of subscription status, gear imbalances due in part to absence of bolster, a dearth of healers for pugs) that panders to a small group of people who take a very casual game entirely too seriously.

Nope. Besides, I don't loathe premades in principle. I loathe the admitted griefing and putative "punishment" that some believe they're meting out due to cancelling of ranked (read bullying), the present matchmaking system, the deserter debuff, the 8man premades as opposed to 4man, and that those who left the game can play as many pvp matches as desired without a subscription. Also, I don't need your permission to post here.

👍🏻

AMD Ryzen 9 3900XT 12-Core Processor 3.79 GHz IT escapes me. If you can tell me what to do or how to look, I will.

Makes sense.

I can see that it is not just premades. Very few would argue against 4mans, I think. You make excellent points. Bolster was something I had forgotten, for instance. And you're right. We're all just responding to random comments at this point. The arguments have already been made. I think some of us are simply bored.

The only one I know about is Cease, and he's on another level. He's an example of a very positive force behind the PvP community. Wish more skilled players were like him. Maybe we should just call it tvt. Understood. Don't care. At least one (more iirc) person has admitted to griefing due to the loss of ranked. IOW, spite. I have zero doubt there are others. Premades need to be reduced to 4man again, though separate queues would be ideal. There are three diabolical decisions which, when combined, make pvp a fun-vacuum hellscape: deserter debuff (snares those who are blameless yet suffer unfortunate disconnects beyond their control and traps players in with these predatory premades) 8man premade (creates a synergistic momentum almost impossible to overcome, particularly when some are former ranked players) pvp games no longer limited by subscription status (means that now the disaffected ranked players chapped about the loss of ranked can, at their leisure, "tee-hee" their way to ruining solo players' experience) Remove any one of those and PvP becomes playable for casual solo players again.

Hmmm I think I see something...not sure what it is... Ah. There it is. It's a sound argument. We can't have those on these forums.

You're probably not wrong. Shame that. Oh well, I am ready to move on if the game continues this way. My preference is that it will change, but I ain't holding my breath. Other games have already captured my interest enough that I won't miss it too much if I feel it is better to quit swtor entirely. Done paying for it. Next step is to simply never log in again.

This system is absolute garbage. People should be punished because they have terrible connections occasionally? Some bag of clueless told me to get a better service. Comcrap is the only service in my area. Even if it were awesome, there are a LOT of connections in the internet between comcrap and the Bioware servers that are beyond my control. So, yeah. This terrible system must go. It's utter garbage.

This is precisely why a poll is needed. Though if even 1/3 of the players are complaining about 8 man premades it means there is a problem. It means the system is alienating a significant number of the player base, but it would be difficult to argue for an overhaul of the current system if we're that small a minority of the players. However, the limited number of players posting in support of 8 man premades compared with those that do not favor them leads me to believe that we're overwhelmingly the majority. My guess is you sense it too, which is why you're adamantly against it. Plead your case, and we'll plead ours. Let the poll commence and let's see what the numbers are. Honestly, whatever happens I am cool with it because if it goes against my wishes, I will leave the game entirely and remember it fondly. If it goes my way, great. Maybe then Bioware will reverse its terrible decision and I get to enjoy pvp again. I simply want a solid decision one way or the other so I know whether or not the game is worth my attention anymore.

All I am seeing is that your group was not very good.

Solipsistic drivel.