*offers farewell hug* It was expected, but it's still a sad day.

It's 48, not 42, but that's only a small detail in the complete math. I am a veteran player with all SH fully unlocked, so participation at 85 and a daily win at 330 becomes 212.5 and 825 respectively. 6 days of conquest (Monday is off) * 825 = 4950 15000 - 4950 = 10050 10050 / 212.5 = 47.3, so you need 48 matches 48 / 6 = 8 matches per day on average assuming each day you get a win. Now pops are not instant, I have often seen 2 matches play before getting a new pop. Lets say 30 mins to wait, pop and play. 8 * 30 mins = 4 HOURS PER DAY. Even if lucky that can be 2 hours, which still is a lot for a single character. Now lets assume there's a new player, no SH at all, so they have to suffer 85 and 330 points. 6 * 330 = 1980 15000 - 1980 = 13020 13020 / 85 = 153.2, becomes 154 154 / 6 = 25.6, it's an average, lets leave the partial match 25.6 * 0.5 = 12.8 hours, even if extremely lucky it's still OVER SIX HOURS EVERY DAY except monday. I'm not convinced they earned my subscription fee.

There were too many for just the forehead. The 5.8a notes are up, contains more notes than expected, but one of the changes implies what I suspected as well (full time participation jobs). Planetary Yield targets for Guild Invasions have been reduced for all sizes: Small is now 200,000 (down from 460,000) Medium is now 550,000 (down from 1,380,000) Large is now 1,130,000 (down from 2,530,000) [*]The Personal Conquest target is now 15,000 (down from 20,000). [*]The following Conquest Objectives have been added to all Conquests: Completing a Warzone Winning a Warzone Completing a Galactic Starfighter Match Winning a Galactic Starfighter Match [*]The Conquest Objective “Starfighter: Dominate the Stars” has been moved to a daily repeatable Objective and had it’s point value increased to 330 (up from 85). [*]The “Rampage” Conquest objectives now require killing 100 enemies (down from 250). Was under the impression FPs would also be part of ALL conquests Rampage is a nice unexpected bonus. “Starfighter: Dominate the Stars” point AND repeatability change confirms that things remain grindy and make point requirement changes a joke. VERDICT: Bye bye renewable subscription plan. *waves*

*pastes 5000 gold star stickers on PorsaLindahl* There you go, you're getting it. Now back to waiting for vague 5.8a patch notes we go.

You always need to look at both short term and long term. Even the two main points in the patch were over hyped. Izax was beaten on vet mode within several hours after launch and ridiculed with links of the achievement to prove they beat it. If you make this uber operation boss and act like the most elite guilds may not even beat him in a month then allowing people to beat him in less than half a day means it's a failure. Conquest was a joke even if not bugged on all sides. And there's people defending it saying it's good practice to break it and then slowly fix it over the course of a year so to the new players then it looks like you added something new. NONSENSE! Even if such theory made sense it would be terrible short term and leave lasting damage. For now (and the foreseeable future) it's unplayable. Take those failures and add lies on top of that. "Only a handful will notice" believe that is you want, it still hurts reputation. Think that this goes on for years, those handfuls add up quickly, and word of mouth spreads. And it's not just this game, how many people will play Anthem and how many would have? You can't be certain, I know I won't be touching Anthem though, and they are losing my subscription here.

It's nice that they added the decorations, even if many are so-so. Don't know what you mean with the compendium being only a buff. it's overpriced, especially after point #3.. It gives a warning message AFTER removing it from your inventory (so if you press no you get nothing). They ninja nerfed, I mean bugged companions, doubt having them at rank 50 does anything outside of crafting. But it's good to make the vendor invisible to require completing the conquest... if conquest was reasonable to complete without 150% SH bonus and the boss killer bug. It would have been better if they had been able to show the vendor but just make the requirement on buying, they probably don't know how to do that though.

Yeah, that's a low amount of credits that won't cover the average repair bill. If they want to be able to give people rewards they deserve they'd need to fix the economy first so they can see the value of credits. And their way of doing so is taxing everyone more, lets increase sales tax from 6% to 8%. That balances absolutely nothing. If anything people charge more to offset the loss, but it's the already rich that do the most selling. They'd need more ways to stimulate in game spending, add a lot onto the nightlife event and have it all year around, different kinds of games where the stinking rich can gamble away 10k,50k,100k at a time for unique prizes, add a grindy way so every chip can be upgraded, but also have more involved game for every rank where you can win ranked prize tickets to directly buy prizes. And when they add enough ways to spend credits they can put in a hard credit cap to prevent the economy from getting unstable again. But that's a dream and they won't do that. Not to mention i'm getting off topic. My point being: Yeah those rewards are not even worthy of being called a joke, they are humiliatingly SAD!

No mention of it in the patch notes so I send it in as a bug report, if enough people do the same they -should- take notice. My bug report.

You're quoting a troll. He doesn't want to understand, or at least he simply refuses to acknowledge he does. It doesn't take a genius to figure out he's wrong. Like you can get that many ops together to finish it part way. With the proposed system there would be fewer people interested in lockout runs, sure there's still be people, but helping up to the final boss may then be hurting yourself more. The proposed system was to accommodate people that line operations, not people that want to farm them just for the points. People that want to farm last bosses for quick command points will remain doing so, those people will simply get less conquest points with the proposed system. At least I assume you responded to the troll responding to my post. Don't expect him to respond sensibly, he won't. Not a beta test, you wish it was a beta, this is an ALPHA test!

And if it's not at least adjusted to acceptable levels by then it's bye bye billing plan for me. Someone higher up should see that if enough do it and someone should start to ask questions. Yeah right, higher ups don't want to know what's going on otherwise they would have noticed in the past. Regardless, when that happens they'll still have some time to convince me because i'm on the 6 month plan, not doing that again if they don't care now, at most getting a few months at a time manually if they prove themselves EACH time. I don't make these statements often, but I intend to follow through. Like they say in game "You can't heal stupid.".

Killing? What are you a Jedi? Give us torture racks, and by creative positioning you can put her up against it and torture her till the servers shut down.

You mean like... *gets killed in the game by a lightsaber, dies in real life* I can see EA making that as a bug, I'll never know because I don't buy EA titles. Only got into SWTOR because when it all started in development it was BW, but since BW=EA now and they've proven that that will never change it's also the last BW title I am planning to ever get into.

That's why I suggested making every ops boss give 250 point (example value), completing the ops through GF 500 points (another example value), if they then assume an average of 6 bosses (I don't care what the exact average is for this example), then that would total for an average of 2000 points (or however much they want to give) for running the entire ops, or 750 for just the last boss. Not only does that balance operation points, it also gives ops guilds a way to get points for running progression on harder difficulties.

What kind of brackets do you want? Level? Level means nothing in GSF. They did put in a system to TRY and group people by ship upgrades, but after all this time that's still broken. It first makes groups of 4 that are close to each other in upgrade tiers. Then it tries to match these teams of 4 into teams of 8 or 12 again by upgrades. THEN it tries to match two teams against each other... Because it prefers rep vs. imp it means there's a chance to get a balanced match, depending if there's a lot of people in the queue. It can also mean you never get a match. If it's a wargame there's a good chance it's very one sided. If it was first queue first serve it would have been more balanced.

Indeed, but since it wasn't announced in the patch notes can we assume it was a bug? Maybe we should all send in bug reports that aren't read anyway?

Tried the compendium (I know, way overpriced but I had the dark projects lying around), regret it. First thing I thought "Is this companion broken?" on another character a different companion at rank 27 was waaaaaaay better. So I thought I could send a melee tank companion into a group and bomb the living daylight out of it without the companion suffering much, it went down to 50% really quickly.

And that was the reason conquest was added in the first place, give people more of a reason to do the old content. If only they remembered that. Or maybe after that other game is done one of the old devs will return -assuming this one doesn't die by then- and go "Noooooooo, what have you done to my conquest?!". At least that was the main reason I remember they gave back then for introducing conquest.

Of course in all this we are assuming it's a repeatable participation objective. But the wording they used can be as simple as a one off participation weekly reward. - It just will be there everyone conquest.

I looked specifically at the one repeatable we did have in 5.8, a GSF WIN for 85 points. Maybe some points I used as a baseline were off, but a GSF participation did use to be 500 points and a WZ participation 250 points. So if we are generous and say both GSF and WZ participations are equal to that win it would still be 177 matches without SH, 71 with the 150% bonus, and that is with the 15.000 point for personal goal. If you count 15 minutes per match and that you may keep missing the next match because there aren't exact team numbers playing, you'll have to play for a good 35 hours WITH full SH bonus, which is an average of 6 hours per day still. Forgive me for rounding the numbers here and there. With wins in GSF that is still less than is actually needed (because I counted with the 15.000, not the current 20.000), so I don't think it'll be that unbelievable to assume the participation scores will be even worse. That's why it's good to bring forth the possibility. But yes, if they'll give actual numbers I'll use those, they have given no indication those will be altered yet however, so until I receive information that those numbers aren't that bad I'm assuming they will be lower than the win scores. But no guess will be that they are higher.

Exactly, we are just making educated guesses, maybe the devs took note and double checked the values, or are busy checking them. Lets assume they are checking them, then there's no fault in admitting that either. If they tell us now they are checking them so they can adjust them at least we'd know we might have better scores than assumed. But if they aren't checking them, what good would it be for them to share it? Simple, we get to run the math and they'd know quickly if we doubt the numbers are right, then they could still check them monday and adjust a table, sending us a little noticification to let us know they are changing the numbers. It would either way be a step to fixing the damage done to relations.

Very simply put I did the math going by the assumption points per type would be similar (repeatables with a base score lower than 100 per completion). Comparing participation/win ratios to the old and even an example with GSF/WZ ratio to the old... *coughs* Warzone participation would likely mean 6 days @ 24 hours/day @ 14 mins and 24 seconds per match (including queue, loading screens, eat, sleep, etc) to barely hit your conquest target. Safe to say, unless they bring the base back to what it used to be people won't do it. And if it's just participation on a week that would still be working for it. Of course better to do when you do have the full SH bonus, but a new player without strongholds on the old system doing Warzones on a non-PvP week was already having a hard/impossible time. A GSF win means a base of 85 points after all, cut that in half for participation, and in half again for WZ participation. So I ended up doing the math with a generous 25 base points per WZ, but even if that was 250 people would not find the time. After the SH boost it would be 63 and 625 respectively (rounded up), the old score would then be doable. If they did restore the old points and repeatables they could likely move the guild target back to 460.000 and up, those scores seemed to be build on the old objective scores.

You'll resub if... I get someone to do the SWTOR Conquest Challenge and survive? The challenge goes as follows: Bring a new player on Monday. Tell them to do the conquest start Tuesday. Get the personal conquest point goal by the end of Sunday. Offer them a lifetime sub if they manage. No I won't do that, that would be too cruel and could end up giving BW money they haven't earned. Even though it could be interesting if there was a patch Tuesday. And paying there sub, how long can that actually be?

That is inaccurate, fewer repeatable activities means people run out of things to do, smaller guilds hit the limit of their potential while larger guilds may end saturated at the top with no competition in sight. With the new system the first goal isn't even to hit the top ten, it's to hit the guild goal. Without repeatable options that actually award points smaller guilds can't reach it. I got saturated at personal score because there was nothing to do worth anything, and only because of the bug. Other guildies gave up long before me.

In my opinion all weeklies should award points, it helps stimulate people to try more forms of content, it's the main reason for introducing conquests. At least it was presented as main reason, and it did help many aspects of the game. The new generation of Devs seems to have come after that so have no idea.

That was my point, In that other thread I did the calculations that probably will prove that the next patch won't fix the lack of PvP now. As soon as 5.8 hit PvP queues died. Been able to get a few occasional matches but it's been negligible. The real downside will be that people won't learn PvP before they hit max level, so when they'll get there and queues pick up there'll be a larger skill gap, and at max level there's even fewer people that want to explain things because you're supposed to learn that at lower levels. And leveling in general is too fast.