Several excellent point so far... the accuracy of the grenade being absurdly high, the tech accuracy check, or a new (unlisted) damage type. I've been kicked in the g0nads by scoundrels while I'm glowing white (which is a simple stun from a playable class), so I'm thinking it is simply a matter of tech accuracy checks as elaborated by eternalnight above. Would be nice if the devs chimed in w/ the reasoning, and whether this is working as intended.

The phase walk is only active for 2 minutes... after that it goes on cooldown if you haven't used it by then. Maybe you tried to use it just as the 2 min timer expired? Then it would seem that you tried to phase walk, but it went on cooldown without doing anything.

We have Attack types: melee, ranged, force and tech. Damage types: Kinetic, energy, internal and elemental. Any combination of attack type can exist against any damage type (technically at least, though SWTOR may not have all combinations). Force shroud: Removes all hostile removable effects and increases your chance to resist Force and tech attacks by 100% for 3 seconds. Does not break Stealth. Therefore, 2 possibilities exist: 1. The grenade is a tech/force, and as such should be resisted by shroud. (I don't know if it goes through a *tech* accuracy check as posted above though... that may explain it). 2. The grenade is a ranged (or even melee attack type). In this case, shroud won't resist it... however surprisingly, deflection (+50% defense) should work and we should be able to resist the grenade w/ deflection up (at least a few times)... which has never happened. Therefore the grenade must be tech, and #1 is the correct scenario.

Really OP, all classes are hitting hard these days... Juggs have smash spec, and vengeance is in a really good place now. Snipers... lol, do i really need to say anything? Maras carnage and rage both hitting hard as usual, with tons of defensives, nothing new there PTs... always hit really hard within 10m While I don't play operatives and sorcs, my friends that do so, tell me that they got some improvements too... not sure how good though. yes, deception sins are hitting hard... the whole role of that class is to come out of stealth, hit hard, and disappear. They are finally fulfilling the intended purpose nicely, and given that everyone is hitting hard there is nothing game breaking about it... Heck, even tanks have improved by a fair margin!! I'm looking to play my deception sin and immortal tank the most in PvP.

Previously, you probably went 18/23 or some such build. You could pick up unstoppable, stance dance, and spec mostly in the dps tree. This is why dps gear worked great for you and you could do decent damage. Now you cannot pick up unstoppable because it does not work in soresu. Also, vengeance has some great talents higher up in the tree (destroyer and seething hatred), which you would give up by going hybrid. So you pretty much do not want to spec hybrid. Furthermore, shield/absorb works better for pvp now if you are tank specced. Therefore your options really are: 1. Full Immortal w/ tank gear 2. Full dps w/ dps gear Full immortal with dps gear will make you mediocre at both tanking and dps IMO. I would go vengeance/rage w/ dps gear in order to DPS and immortal w/ tanking gear in order to tank. Vengeance still has good survivability, so there is no reason not to go full vengeance w/ dps gear. See above. Here is a build I am considering for pvp... I plan to tank w/ tank gear. [the point in unyielding is debatable]. http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/juggernaut/227/?build=003222100212120222122102023000100322000100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000&ver=20 Not really. Unstoppable was the crowning jewel of the hybrid build. Sure you can still spec hybrid, but you won't get much out of it anymore. Immortal is beautiful now, w/ some very good talents higher up, which are not worth giving up if you plan to tank. Likewise, vengeance has good talents higher up, which are not worth giving up if you want to dps. To summarize, I would pick: 1. Full immortal w/ tank gear for pvp tanking 2. Full vengeance w/ dps gear for great single target dps and good survivability in pvp 3. Full rage w/ dps gear for great aoe (and single target) dps Just my 2c.

BTW Rule of Two and Thrown Gauntlet are great for pvp

^^^ This is precisely my thinking as well. Vicious retaliation will be useful 12 sec out of every 150 sec. Also, the retaliation buff will be up anyway (most likely) so the cd reduction isn't going to do much. Save those 2 points for something else.

Jedi warden would be great for pvp. That spammable slow is awesome. I would also take battlefield command for pvp, but it is debatable I agree. One thing I would not take is guard and thrust... neither for pvp nor for pve. Saber ward is active for 12 sec out of every 150 seconds. It seems wasteful to me to use 2 points for something that would be used so infrequently (even if you pop saber ward every cd). Chances are you will have the riposte buff up anyway, so I doubt you would get any extra defence from it.

The new Immortal tree brought tears to my eyes. Thanks a bunch for finally addressing this tree. So much win all around in immortal: * Invincible and saber ward cd reduction for tanks (finally!) * New saber reflect, and increase to 5s for tanks,w/ added threat * Retaliation crit chance increased * 15% flat armor increase * Sonic wall awesome for pve and pvp * Rule of two great for pvp * Force charge, disruption cd reductions * crushing blow enabling retaliation, and also increasing damage reduction Juggs should easily top protection scores w/ guard, single target taunt, aoe taunt, sonic wall, and intercede. I couldn't care less about lowest overall tank damage, jugg is undisputed pvp protector w/ many good survivability cooldowns as well. I re-subbed for 2.0 after going over all the changes to the different classes. Yes, losing unstoppable in Soresu really hurt, but whatever... immortal looks really good now. Maybe we can get unstoppable as well for Christmas LOL! I have 5 different 50s, and looking forward to my immortal jugg and deception assassin the most. Gonna take some time to get used to all the changes since the time I quit last year though...

Clearly the marauder, PT pyro, and rage juggernaut on the sorc/sage's team needs the bubble stun protection. Working as intended by Biofail... nothing to see here, move along.

Juggs are modeled based on Vader, hence the single light saber, and heavy armor. Assasins are modeled based on darth maul, hence the double bladed lightsaber, and the cool seethe animation. Marauders are modeled based on asajj ventress with two sabers. Sorcs are modeled based on palpatine, hence the emphasis on lightning spam. IMO each class has access to the right weapon, and this makes each class feel unique.

We need: 1. 5/10/15% increased movement speed talent 2. 30% AoE damage reduction talent 3. 1/2 secs off interrupt cd, and 15/30 seconds off cc breaker : : : 4. DoTs that actually hurt would be nice too. 5. More armor pen for a tree that does so much white damage. 1, 2, 3 are absolute must haves I think, and simply bring us up to par with other classes middle trees.

Woot, didn't know this thread existed. 459k protection http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk263/rocksjudas/public/459protection.jpg

I think they sit around 6-6.5k armor and 38-40% DR. My jugg sits at 8k armor and 52.5% DR.

I would advise you to just level up rage spec, since you are not interested in tanking. While leveling, for extra survivability in certain encounters, you can run rage in soresu. Once you get your tank companion, you can just run rage in shii-cho. Until then, run w/ a healer in shiicho, or a dps companion in soresu. In flashpoints, you can safely run rage in shii-cho, do tons of dps, and not worry about survivability since the tank should have the baddies on himself most of the time.

^^^ This really. On my pyro... explosive fuel +25% crit chance, 2 min cooldown. On my assassin... recklessness... 2 charges, increase crit by 60% for next 2 force abilities... 1.5min cooldown On my sniper... laze target... increased next snipe crit chance by 100% (1 attack single target)... 1 min cooldown On the rage jugg... obliterate 15 sec cooldown, makes next smash auto-crit. AoE attack. On the rage jugg... charge 15 sec cooldown (can also reset cd with push), makes next smash auto-crit. AoE attack. Given that charge and obliterate cds can not be increased (especially the former since it would affect all warriors very negatively), the solution is to adjust the auto-crit.

Also let's not forget going 1v1 against the massive influx of assault vanguards/PT pyros. When I see a lone PT pyro guarding a turret in civil war, I giggle, because 10 seconds later the turret is mine. Shroud is just so brutal against PT pyros... and deception burst takes em down quick. We don't even have to be perfect, because we get tons of stuns (spike, low slash, electrocute before his resolve is full) to make him ineffective if we make mistakes. On my PT pyro, assassins are the class I fear the most due to shroud and force slow, and anni maras next due to their slows (rupture and leg slash). Well and snipers, but that is obvious.

Look, if it means anything... I have all three tank toons leveled to 50. While I have not tanked extensively on the shadow and PT (I mostly pvp dps on those) I've done it. PTs have AoE aggro easy mode, and the best armor and base DR. But they have **** cooldowns.. Shadows have lots of utility, and very good dps. Shroud is very powerful, but only 5 secs. Jugs have the best defensive cooldowns, but suck at dps and aoe aggro. You might think the other tanks do much better, but the grass is always greener on the other side. Jump into the assassin forums, and you will see how enviable they are of the jugg and PT armor and DR. Yes, immortal needs to be improved. But neither of the tanks are way better than the other when it comes to PvE. Just choose one that fits your playstyle best IMHO.

Yep works on snipers that are in cover on the catwalk in front of the huttball as well. Force push em all the way into the pit LOL! Video is awesome!

Very sweet. I liked especially the huttball charge-intercept (very tricky to pull off reliably), and the epic pushes in civil war mid were ROFL! I've found that if we are lower in elevation to the person being pushed, that person gets thrown FAR OFF and along an upward trajectory. I love to do the same to snipers on the middle catwalk in front of the huttball spawn. Push em off all the way into the pit, always makes me laugh!

In phase 2, tank on the middle level platform, most of the damage is defensible here. When he hits you about 5-6 times, drop to a lower platform (the one that does NOT have the tentacle). He will spit on you. Now it is time to move to your previous platform immediately. He will start channelling scream, which is when the other tank taunts. After he screams, run to the starting area to get rid of the scream debuff (it doesnt fall off quick like it does in story, you have to put distance between yourself and boss). Rinse and repeat w/ second tank. Last phase is random aggro, work out taunt order w/ other tank, keeping in mind that someone will have to run to the start to get the scream debuff from previous phase to drop off. EDIT: Oops sorry just saw you said SM not HM. Well practice the same thing that you would do on HM, then you are ready for HM tanking

Enhance the capstone talent and second-highest-tier for all tank specs (darkness 31, immortal 31, Shield 31) to give them a 15/30/45% chance to have their defense/shield affect yellow damage only in PvP in tank stance. e.g. So if my defense chance is 30% against white damage, I can get an almost 15% defense chance against yellow damage. This would make us last longer against all the yellow damage out there. In return, you can further nerf our damage when in tank stance (although that would make Jugg tanks so friggin hilarious). Of course, tank+heal would be a tad overpowered, but whatever...

I only agree with you on one point, that immortal needs re-work, which is why I even spec hybrid. But PvE and jug tanks? Isn't clearing TFB HM comfortably, an indication that jugg tanks are good enough in PvE? I mean that is the highest tier of PvE content available today. Once again... I agree that immortal needs re-work. I disagree that Jug tanks are not as good as other tanks even in PvE.

Our guild has cleared 5/5 TFB HM, and my jugg and a sintank tank it. The only problem I have with my hybrid juggie in PvE is the initial aggro, when I start a fight. This is because everyone starts off with 0 on the aggro table, and if I pick up a boss first, then without my taunts the sintank inevitably rips aggro. This is because we both have the same 200% threat from tank stance, but he has way more dps. It sucks, but I always let him take any boss first, and swap in when appropriate as mechanics demand. Once the swaps and taunt mechanics get going, you won't rip aggro from me. Also generally any fight that has an aggro wipe, you can still maintain threat if you want to blow all taunts (single target, aoe, single target) and then the boss is yours. But I don't like doing that usually.... Now would a pure 31-point immortal be better for PvE with it's high threat abilities (crushing blow, backhand) and it's quicker rage generation? Sure it would! But it would absolutely suck compared to the hybrid in pvp. Let me re-phrase... The pure immortal is slightly better than the hybrid in PvE. The hybrid is vastly better than the 31-immortal in PvP. And given that I do not want to re-spec for pvp (I pve and pvp everyday) I just stick to the pvp build. It is more than enough for pve. EDIT: BTW forgot to add that in terms of mitigation, the hybrid is better even in PvE. Producing sonic barriers more often, 4% all DR vs 4% I/E and 4% absorb, and unstoppable DR and CC immunity... all these make the hybrid better at mitigating in PvE as well. So in PvE 31-immortal has the edge in threat and rage gen, and hybrid has the edge in mitigation. Don't misunderstand me. I would LOVE it if they re-designed the immortal tree, which really needs to be looked at. But are jugs inferior today? Not really. And BTW, don't hold your breath on Bioware. Judging from their history, the marauders will get another buff in 1.6, the mercs some meaningless changes, and the operatives nerfed.

You guys are funny, it is a survival tool. Don't you understand that the marauder, smash juggie, and PT pyro on that sage/sorcs team absolutely needs that bubble stun protection?