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Domatron

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Posts posted by Domatron

    Which requires more skill, Solo or Grouped

    in PvP

    Posted · Edited by Domatron

    I'm laughing so hard right now. I've never had my reading comprehension insulted before, only makes sense that someone on the internet was the first.

     

    So now you say execution is the difference. Which is a great point to make, thank you for this. Certainly in group ranked, you are more likely to have 4 good people playing against 4 good people. This however does not mean solo will never have 4 good people against 4 good people. It's just not likely to happen as often as grouped. However, one could say that because of my guarantees argument, solo is more likely to have 4 good players vs 1 good player. If you're that one good player, all the skill in the world might not safe you. Where as in grouped, you don't have to be grouped with all bads if you queue with all good players. Which means the execution argument works both ways and in a sense can be worse in solo, because even execution may not help you.

     

    Btw: being more competitive and requiring more skill doesn't always work hand in hand.

     

    Thank you for actually addressing at least part of what I said, I do respect your viewpoint even if I find it incorrect.

     

    The question I would really like to have you address is this one

    Regular warzones and 8v8 share the same map type, same objectives, same goals.

    The difference is a pre-composed group of your friends that you always play with, vs the random assignment of bads. How is this substantially different from solo vs group?

    In both scenarios the game types are identical, the only difference is whether or not the teams are randomized.

    Which requires more skill, Solo or Grouped

    in PvP

    Posted

    Did you seriously just try to use a 8v8 warzone analogy to try and debunk my argument? Come on, that's just pathetic in the sense of serious debate. You have missed the overall point of the argument (arena) by using 8v8 warzone as an analogy. I'll cite some major differences that make the analogy completely irrelevant. In arena you die and there's no respawn, in arena it's not 8v8 it's 4v4, in arena you must win 2/3 rounds and in arena there's no objectives (it's a death match.)

     

    Saying that because I think solo is harder than grouped so therefore I must think regs are harder than ranked is a fallacious error.

     

    Sorry, gonna have to work harder than that. Try again please.

     

    So your counter is arena is not 8v8, that take you all night to figure out?

     

    Again reading comprehension is a skill you have proven to lack

     

    Regular warzones and 8v8 share the same map type, same objectives, same goals.

    The difference is a pre-composed group of your friends that you always play with, vs the random assignment of bads. How is this substantially different from solo vs group?

     

    In both scenarios the game types are identical, the only difference is whether or not the teams are randomized.

     

     

     

    Your argument boils down to - Adaptation to random teammates is the true skill (since you wont know your enemies in either queue)

     

    Mine is - Execution at a higher level of play is the true measure of skill.

     

    The comparison is more than fair for what you describe

    Which requires more skill, Solo or Grouped

    in PvP

    Posted · Edited by Domatron

    Your fallacious argument is typical of someone who can't logically explain themselves.

     

    Such a thorough debunking of all my points, including the ones you ask for, bravo.

    Since you are down to just trying to insult me instead of debating I'm guessing you are out of ideas.

     

    I think this is an interesting topic with lots of room for perspective, so I'll do what you apparently won't and take what you say seriously.

     

    Lets look at your water tight reasoning again

    I'm going to illustrate my point by making an analogy to 8v8s and regular warzones.

     

    Your argument is adaptation to random circumstance is the true measure of skill, specifically to your own teammates.

    So this would suggest your reasoning would be that regular wazones are a better measure of skill then ranked 8v8s

     

    Below I've quoted you and only changed 2 things, where it said solo I made it say regs, where you said group I said 8v8s. I've highlighted where I've made changes.

     

    In 8v8 ranked, over the course of your queues, you will continue to be with the same people unless y'all switch comps/swap people out. Whether or not you go up against more skilled players is irrelevant when comparing the skill required for 8v8 queue and regular queue. Why is that irrelevant? Because there's also skilled players in regular queue, which means the "more skilled players" argument works both ways.

     

    In regular queue, unless you get lucky, you will be with 4-7 new people who you may have never grouped with before. On top of that, if you are unlucky, you may have all the bads on your team and the the other team may have all the skill. (That's how the skilled player argument affects regular queue.)

     

    So let's look at the two queues.

    8v8 - always with people you know, can always communicate with VoIP,pre-determined comp, and the choice to only ever group with skilled players.

    Regular - high chance you will not know anybody, high probability y'all cannot get in the same VoIP before the match starts, never guaranteed to get a comp that compliments each other, and never guaranteed to be with all skilled players.

     

    You could certainly make the argument that none of what I have pointed out signifies skill. But you can't deny that regular queues come with no guarantees and therefore they are going to be more difficult. How do you overcome a difficult challenge, by using your knowledge of skills within the game to win.

     

    I am wrong with this extension of your logic?

    Do you believe that regular warzones are more indicative of skill than ranked 8v8s?

    If this is not a correct extension of your reasoning why?

     

    Larger community please chime in, whether I'm right or wrong I'm interested in what you have to say.

    Which requires more skill, Solo or Grouped

    in PvP

    Posted

    There's no changing your opinion, I understood this from the beginning.

     

    I guess that I just wanted to see if you could reasonably make a claim, which isn't shared on both sides, that would truly make group ranked appear to require more skill. Besides the "not being geared enough" claim, which is situational (it may hurt you it may be to your favor; friend or enemy), you can't, so I guess we are done here.

     

    IMO solo queue requires more skill because there's no guarantees.

     

    I guess we are since you still don't actually read what I write.

     

    Hybrids queuing as DPS, Queue syncing, are two I wrote in the previous post that are impossible in 4s and give an outsized advantage to that player.

    Not to mention the ton of stuff about class representation and high rankings with links.

     

    You are right though I'll never see how the queue that cant match people properly http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=699743

    and is used primarily for comm farming is more competitive.

     

    You never queue 4s so I guess you will never really know.

    Which requires more skill, Solo or Grouped

    in PvP

    Posted

    Thank you for only quoting what you did, it just further shows your ignorance.

     

    Id greatly appreciate it if you would introduce some premises in your argument to support your conclusions. I can't see how your claims don't work both ways and arent worse in solo. So please, help yourself and support your claims instead of leaving them baseless.

     

    It's like you just read one or two lines out of everything I post. Maybe go back and review my previous posts.

    This thread was to gather input from the larger community.

     

    I never made an absolute claim that one was the undeniable measurement, that was your bud.

     

    He claimed OP comps, I argue class/spec matters more in solo than in 4s.

    evidence leaderboards

    http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=700052

    http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=700224

    http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=698713

     

    compared to the top teams playing 4s, which have a wide range of comps with almost every AC represented.

     

    But you can't deny that solo queues come with no guarantees and therefore they are going to be more difficult.

    Yes I can, beating an organized team of skilled players is harder. I've done both.

     

    In my experience, players are less geared in solo, players are less skilled in solo, hybrids tip the scales in a very noticeable way, and queue syncing runs rampant (so it's not really solo) Solo queues are facerolls one way or the other far more often then group queues in my experience.

     

    I'm in full agreement that a good player can carry the day in solo, and will move his ranking up eventually.

     

    I'm saying for the intensity of one mistake or miscalculation costs you the game level of play solo can rarely compare. To me this defines high level pvp, less variables, less rng, one mistake and its over.

     

    I'm also saying it's easier to farm solo rating then to farm group rating.

     

    (note: the irony of a PvE player arguing that group synchronization is not a measure of skill)

     

    In the end this is the best answer

    Agreed. Both require skill and really good players should be able to perform in both settings.

     

    The hard truth? People who don't get invited to Groups often try to claim Solo is the most "skilled" since it's all they can do.(PS: they aren't invited for a reason usually) On the other hand, people getting carried in Group that suffer in Solo also make excuses such as "only group matters."

    Which requires more skill, Solo or Grouped

    in PvP

    Posted

    Some people just are in such denial that they refuse to open their eyes and see it from the other side.

     

    pot meet kettle

     

    To elaborate I'm basically saying that a good player can get a high solo ranking by just playing a ton of games, and this is not nearly as easy in group. I'm also saying beating a good team in 4s requires more skill (in most cases) then winning any solo match.

    Which requires more skill, Solo or Grouped

    in PvP

    Posted · Edited by Domatron

    So I had a discussion with another person on my server about which queue took more skill to win in.

    I argued group, he argued solo.

     

    I argued that solo queue likely had less skilled players in any given match, and the randomness of compositions, specs, and skill levels basically made it a lottery queue. The leaderboards also show several different comps having success in grouped.

     

    He argued that group composition mattered too much (specifically AP cleave teams) and carrying the bads was a better measure of skill.

     

    So what do you guys think

    Server PVP Leaderboards

    in The Shadowlands

    Posted · Edited by Domatron

    *edited

    I took down what I previously posted because forum pvp and epeen wagging is pointless.

     

    More about solo matchmaking not working http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=699743

     

    I think the leaderboards have enough variation in group comp to show that, besides operative healers being mandatory, group skill > group comp.

     

    I never said cleave comp wasn't really good, it is but I've seen a lot of teams that still play bad and lose with it. Teams that have even one ranged dps should be able to handle it, it counters melee heavy teams.

     

    I tried to have a nice convo with you but you couldn't resist taking not so subtle and unnecessary shots at our group. If I was mistaken or misinterpreted you, I apologize.

    This will be my last post on the subject.

     

    Anytime you want us to queue, we'll use a different comp if you request it.

     

    feel free to argue your case here http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6976171#post6976171 or just see what the consensus is.

    sniper needs a buff against intelligent players

    in PvP

    Posted

    So what do you propose OP? What could possibly be given to snipers yet which wouldn't make it very OP?

     

    I still think you need to abandon the marksman tree. Go Lethality, Engineering, or Leth/Eng hybrid and LOL as they freak out while bomblets go off from the DOTs.

     

    Next patch snipers get bankshots "the sniper shoots two shots banking the second off the first to hit enemies around corners"

    Given BWs love of snipers I expect this soon

    PVP Shout outs!

    in The Shadowlands

    Posted

    yeah, Fatedd started his ridiculous xenophobic rants after turning down my offer of having a 15v5 against his guild.....while at the same time saying we cant do anything without healers and numbers and ganking....was a bit contradictory....and confusing...quickly turned into "you guys are the reason the world hates america" ......I'm sure those dirty. arrogant, imperialist american pigs are also the reason he's banned from the forums :/

     

    He challenged us to ranked 4s the other day, but only on alts, and now I have the #1 group rated sorc on server :cool:

    Server PVP Leaderboards

    in The Shadowlands

    Posted · Edited by Domatron

    I don't think I've ever said "Kungfu Treachery is bad" in a post 2.0 setting. Zach and Nyn are both tagged, it'd be insulting to them to say so. I could say about 20 things about the above, but I'll leave it at that you are talking about ranked group comps and referencing unranked matches where we grab any 4 players who want to group. /Yawn, any relevant stuff to counter with? No one told you to queue ranked, of the 5 members who do ranked in our guild 2 were online so you can toss that right out. Steve! Rick! Go to work!

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yd15f9yyN1I

     

    We only had 2 from our ranked team as well so guess it's even.

    Never actually seen you in ranked 4s so I don't see how you could comment on our comp , unless you were in that grey order team than queued with no guard and a scoundrel dps. If that's the case our comp wasn't the problem there, can't really call our comp OP if you don't even queue with a viable comp.

    More to the point top 2-3 teams on PoT5 run comps with ranged so if you can't beat ours its a L2P issue.

     

    which 5? be happy to set up some matches.

    Best player of each class!

    in The Shadowlands

    Posted · Edited by Domatron

    sorc heals = fadera

    op dps = stand (who will be back in a few days)

    merc dps = chasso (its not close)

    PT tank = Gag (he tanks way more than ent)

    merc heals = donnamite, if you dont want donna twice then draft

    scound heals = Nisseesi from eternal is the best I've seen

    jugg tank = Inaz (xani)

    shadow = demalain

    commando dps = bambam

    soundrel dps = probably lynx

     

    really entity could be top 3 in all so I'd only list him on dps PT (no-retreat)

     

    all the other picks now that you've edited down look good

    PVP Shout outs!

    in The Shadowlands

    Posted · Edited by Domatron

    Shoutout to Emérald for saying i'm "exploiting" and "cheating" because she couldn't tab target me o.O

     

    FYI: it happens to everyone, sometimes I can't target people either... so I click them... problem fixed?

     

    ALSO shoutout to her for saying i'm uploading "screenshots of her" on facebook? wat

     

    We all know about the super Zenod facebook hax,

    btw have you heard Lyana's impression of you in mumble it's creepy how similar she sounds.

    Server PVP Leaderboards

    in The Shadowlands

    Posted

    i wasn't bugged....actually had some fun in that hypergates you guys won...the rest of the matches were rofl stomps.....sadly then I respecced out of bubble stun heals to full heals then got in that arena with you guys /facepalm

     

    That hypergates was fun, I saw the bubble burst and then innervate and knew you were the hybrid. So then we just parked two commandos on you:D

    Server PVP Leaderboards

    in The Shadowlands

    Posted

    Against a 3man in unranked PUGs? I'm not sure that's anything to be proud of :rolleyes:. I appreciate the obsession some of you seem to have with me, but it's getting creepy when you faction swap to try to harass me into queuing ranked. Grats, you're able to beat a half premade of players who specialize in PvE. ]

     

    3? half a premade? all 4 tags said HMD Magenta, second game I saw all 4 of you in.

    Your team told us to queue ranked and we did, then after a few mins with no pop we came to see whats up.

     

    No obsession, you came into the forum and called us bads who used an OP comp as a crutch to cover up lack of skill.

    Then the same night we made you eat crow, and you ducked us with a different comp that no one could call FOTM.

    At least the farce that you don't queue because of OP comps is gone.

    I ain't even mad, I found it hilarious.

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