Domatron
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Posts posted by Domatron
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Since large active Guilds have a lot to gain from crafting, they also have the potential to lose from crafting, calling for a crafting nerf is significantly more about the upside to large Guilds who can, by your own admission, win through non-crafting means than a downside to our gaming community. By your own arguments then, if crafting is nerfed, your win strategies lose the most significant threat.
We mostly agree there is no "scissors, paper, rock game" happening in the Conquest System, there is "bomb", which beats all, now you want "bomb" out of play since, by your own admission, you can "win" by any other means. You could have equally asked "Bioware: is zerging to win intended?" detailing how more people clicking more buttons is what Conquest System in its current form is truly all about.
Thank you for making it increasingly evident what may be the true motivating spirit behind your intentions to start this thread calling for a crafting nerf, the rest of us will continue to do our best to promote the interests of the entire gaming community above the preferences of any particular group of players.
How is the whole community served by having one activity make the entire rest of the system irrelevant?
Don't break your legs falling off your high horse you only want this left alone to benefit yourself, not the community.
In any other game mode having an imbalance this large would not be tolerated. In previous conquest nerfs lesser advantages weren't tolerated.
For everyones information Triumph didn't even exist before conquests were announced, Paragon formed, recruited, merged and organized for the purpose of winning conquest. This organization does take effort.
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snip [/b]
1) ID did more than anyone to promote ranked on shadowlands they invited anyone they could to do kickball ranked for months, that's how I got into 8v8s. Sorry you didn't get invited, the real issue was people can't stand losing and gravitate to the top guilds or quit when they can't beat them.
2) triumph hasn't dodged anyone, tae made a plan from week one for what planets to take on what week. That's why the battle with wook occurred because both guilds saw this was really the only chance to get this planet.
3) go back a page I linked a post from 3 weeks ago ravinder made to point out the imbalance, everyone dismissed it until thus week.
4) none of this has anything to do with the topic at had. Your motivations are also clear, you still have a grudge.
If pve and PvP repeatables were nerfed why not crafting?
Activities far less meaningful to conquest points have already been nerfed because they were deemed OP.
Crafting should stay a part of conquest, imo all activities should be repeatable with the weekly/planetary theme determining the best point activity.
We are going to win all the planets we want to take, easily. Advocating for balance =/= trying to undermine everyone else.
If we wanted to be ruthless, we wouldn't have said anything and just kept it to ourselves.
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Yes everyone is aware how effective the return is, however everyone should also be aware that crafting is the only activity that costs.
In order to craft you need mats and you need them on a large scale.
To get mats you have to
-spam resources nodes which costs game time
-spam gathering missions which costs credits+real time
-buy mats off GTN which costs a lot more credits but not time.
Warzones, GSF, and flashpoints only cost time, there is no credit expenditure.
Some people seem to complain that it gives to much points for something that occurs passively. (ignoring the active time require to accumulate the wealth or mats) However it is important to note that since crafting is passive, that Crafting+PvP, Crafting+GSF, or Crafting+Flashpoints will always yield higher points than just Crafting, and that statement will always be true as long as crafting doesn't give infinite points.
Crafting is also a function of available resources, time, credits and available crafting alts, while all other sources of conquest points are a function player accounts. While larger guild population still gives a advantage in the crafting area of conquest, the effectiveness of it is not purely tied to guild numbers. Or in other words superguilds like Triumph will stand the most to gain from a nerfed crafting system.
It is also important to note that a guild that has been as dominant as Triumph has been, will have known about Crafting's effectiveness since day 1 of conquests. Crafting nukes are after all the oldest trick in the Conquest book. However it is interesting to note that Triumph only complains after they burned out on crafting, as evidenced with this quote
Now they wish to pursue a different meta having burned themselves out exploiting the old one.
Except the part where we posted about it 3 weeks ago
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=763243&highlight=Conquest+crafting
That's one of our members so you can firmly plant you accusations back where you pulled them out of
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crafting is currently the only way they can make up their numbers that means crafting is good as is. now if you were to argue for pvp and instance to go upwards in scale with crafting instead of crafting to go down to pvp/instances level. that i wouldn't necessarily disagree with it would be punishing for players not skilled in pvp/instance but it would still allow dedicated low number guilds to get to the top ten over bigger less dedicated guild so a good thing in my books
Why were repeatable flashpoints and PvP nerfed? Surely those could've leveled the playing field for smaller guilds.
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Since Triumph has completely burned themselves out on crafting then they should reap what they have sown.
This thread is nothing but petty selfishness. Every serious conquest guild has known how effective crafting is since day one, and I doubt Triumph is a exception. Yet amusingly they chose not to say anything about it until after they burned themselves out on it.
The only thing I see here is a guild that no longer has resources or rather the will to get the resources to win at conquest yet wants to continue to win every week.
All I see is a crybaby whose sad his secret weapon is out since he apparently knew about the outsized rewards already.
Aren't baseless assumptions fun
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which frankly is working as intended so i don't see your point. besides which each individual player or alt should be treated as it's own thing. and there is a max to how many alts you can have at any rate so it really isn't possible to have one more crafting alt unless the person crafting as much as possible and pvping at the same time lets you have one more crafting alt.
So you believe offline play should reward more than online
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actually someone who crafts as much as possible will always lose to someone who crafts as much as possible and also does pvp on the side for instance. so yeah no one is going to win by just doing crafting like he said.
Unless I have one more crafting alt than you, then all your active play means nothing.
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I am not making an argument against any change.
I always assumed that was obvious.
My issue is with people -- such as the OP -- who explore a system as much as possible and after they're burned up, they claim the system is not working as intended.
This of course only happens AFTER they explored the system extensively to their advantage.
Your issue is based entirely on assumptions, poor ones at that. Of course the people who push the game for the top find the bugs. The jerk move would've been to never give up the secret and keep rolling to victory.
It's being brought up now because this is the first demonstration of how absurd it can become, before this it would've just been theory and I'm sure you would've found some other high horse to shout it down from.
As the person from wook said the top contributors could've won planets solo, that is broken.
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No one is going to win JUST by crafting. It simply isn't going to happen.
Now you show your true ignorance on the topic at hand. You absolutely can win by only crafting as no other activity can match it in time efficiency (you can get points while offline ffs)
Maybe re-read the OP and see the math, then multiply the crafting by however many crafter alts on account has that don't even have to be online.
Crafting outpaces active playing by a large margin.
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Triumph........lol I love catching trash talk from them regarding my posts.
You make long posts about hacking, then show up in war zones sporting 26k hp, and not even hitting 300k dam, on a focus guardian, in a full voidstar.
Of course you are going to attract trash talk.
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I feel bad for the guy who just wants to buy a stack of stims or augment kit after material prices get inflated by the current system.
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That was rather my point.
Indeed it is.
I don't like Monopoly any more. So I don't play it. Seems rational.
Anyone playing a game by definition likes that game.
As we all know mmos are static and never adjusted based on player feedback, exactly like a board game.
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And what seems to elude you is "So what?" If you know what you need to do and you want to "win," do it. If you're not willing to do what you know needs to be done, you're obviously not that interested in "winning."
If it truly is bad for the longevity of the game and the game dies because of it, you can say 'I told you so!"
Look at the points obviously he's willing to do what needs to be done. Now you're just arguing to argue.
Conquest is a fun system and basing different weeks around different activities is a great idea to get players out of their comfort zone and enjoy aspects of the game they may not have otherwise. The themes should carry more weight, one activity shouldn't so thoroughly dominate.
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So what's the beef? You apparently know the "secret" to the conquest system. So take advantage of it.
What's the point of having themed weeks if every week is effectively crafting week?
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What annoys me is the fact that the OP is nothing but a thinly veiled attempt to change conquest to where his guild can win without effort, as he was apparently upset by how much effort it took to beat a crafting guild.
What annoys me is 13 pages later you still don't get the point.
Crafting >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than any other activity, in both rewards and time spent. Pve and PvP have already both seen nerfs meanwhile the elephant in the room remains ignored.
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Or you could read the bolster thread that is sticky at the top of this forum
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Whatever has the most power, you can mix the weaponmaster and challenger sets they share set bonuses.
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Don't know if it's been said already but in wildstar
1) there will be cross server, so much lower chance to see the same opponents over and over (or teammates)
2) all PvP types have rankings and matchmaking, so if you're bad (which if you're complaining about pre-mades is very likely) you'll get matched against players just as bad
From my time in beta I think wildstar does more to encourage group content than SWTOR, as a result it's probably less solo friendly. So solo players may enjoy it less anyways.
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The coordination and skill requirement increase is actually something that would benefit 8v8s.
Personally, I still think 4v4s are the perfect stepping stone to 8v8s, now that the skilled players have developed a more detailed stance in how to kill something. Often times, I found ranked 8v8, while intense, to be flat line because of how rarely people died. With arenas, I have seen a huge increase in player skill capability, where teams have developed strong methods of seperating players from their teammates and using LoS to really prevent turtle matches, something that would make 8v8 a hell of a lot more intense and fun.
But yeah, I feel as if the devs have gone in the complete opposite direction with PvP in this game as well. However, I also think that has more to do with the lousy player base overall, as egotistical casuals make the worst PvPers, and the game becomes poop if you have to cater to them as a majority.
I agree with this.
I seriously doubt there would be things like the old zero cap Hypergates now that arena strats have refined players kill tactics.
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It took over a minute to kill that jugg tank with rapid shots in real time lol
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Playing marauder is harder than it used to be due to buffs to other classes and having only one viable spec does suck (fingers crossed for anni changes)
I really think cc immunity is not needed just give Gore charges that are consumed similar to deadly saber, or if that's too much give back the 100% scream proc. I really think camo should baseline root break as well. Undying rage should also be changed back, the justification for that change was just stupid.
Playing my Mara I always eat more cc than on any other class,
it comes with the territory because no class can strait up trade blows with you and expect to win. The stuns were much, much worse when bubble stun was around.
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I saw people trying to form ranked groups a grand total of two times during my time on the Shadowlands -- and I started the first one.
Fyi group ranked happens fairly often on shadowlands if you know the right people. Quite often the best group will have players join the other team to help out if they're short. If by seeing people trying to form teams, you mean spamming General chat, then ya none of that, but for good reason. No one competent would join a random fleet team without some prior organization. (If you really want group games try the Facebook group, you'll probably have better luck)
Back to the topic at hand, casual game is casual, see all the baddies with rancor mounts on whatever server you're on for proof.
Solo ranked will continue to be the more popular mode, because it's easier and offers the same rewards.
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Did people really think a game mode, that regularly ignores 2/3 of the meta (Tanking and healing), was going to be balanced or fair? LMAO
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Not typically. Sometimes ID tries to get group popping so they can roll people, but well, thats not exactly all that fun.
Only way to get better is to play people better than you and learn what tactics and comps work. Sick innuendo got rolled for a while but they learned, improved, and made it much more competitive. Poisonberry had a decent team as well that was improving with every loss.
Losing can be frustrating at times, but losing a well played, close match is always more fun than stomping bads.
Bioware: Is Crafting to Win™ intended?
in General Discussion
Posted
So in actuality after you make a ton of assumptions about our motivations, you agree with us.