I just don't believe Nomi will be able to sit in her temple and negate any advantage her opponents have, and any disadvantages her troops have. Battle meditation can overcome much, but it is not the universal panacea that it is being made out to be. Without Vaapad Windu is just an amazing fighter, but so is Kun. Both have fought constantly and are legends for their ability with a saber. But, even in the Best Saber Fighter thread everyone had to admit that Vaapad was the greatest equalizer between Windu and more powerful force users.

I think you're over-estimating Nomi's power. Battle Meditation isn't an "I win" button, and if she is using it while Windu is fighting Kun, Windu catches the raw end of that deal, not Kun.

From what I've read, we need an arbiter's determination on Battle Meditation having draw backs. As for saber combat, I feel that both Kun and Windu are at a staggering disadvantage when fighting each other. Kun has never seen anything as furious as Vaapad, especially in something as powerful as a dark side nexus. Windu has never stood in a darkside nexus and faced a Sith master duelist of Kun's caliber. Sidious was, well Sidious, but Kun's saber, and style, is incredibly unique. I doubt both would be fighting to their best ability during that fight. The more I read, the more I would be worried about Windu becoming the most impressive Sith in existence if he squares off with Kun, in Kun's temple, after Kun has been using that sorcery of his. Anything else anyone can think of that needs to be argued/gone over? EDIT 1: Heh, BM Withdrawl.. that is all.

Some pertinent information on the Scimitar: The Scimitar essentially wins versus any sort of recognition. It would seem the stealth field was, for all intents and purposes, flawless. There is nothing to say it has to turn off the field when hitting hyper space, or when offloading passengers. It is a 100% cloak by my reading of the details. Now for some details on Battle Meditation in general: In essence, every force sensitive has battle meditation, if they focus. The amount of focus required varies by individual, with certain powers, namely Nomi, being able to do it with little effort. However, over use, as demonstrated by Palpatine, has severe consequences. It would seem that after too much use of Battle Meditation the forces being influenced by it become reliant on it. Nomi may be able to boost her forces efficiency to a dramatic degree and bolster their morale similarly, but if she does so too frequently they will bottom out when that influence goes away. Lets move to Shatterpoint: Shatterpoints are incredibly powerful, which is why, in general, they last only a moment before disappearing forever. They can't be manufactured, only nursed into being. Once acted on the repercussions will cascade, and without forethought, can end in tragedy or in joy. KotOR 2 demonstrated this point, so I'll say no more.

That is an interesting concept. I don't think it would be easy, but it could potentially be done. Kun has a lot of power, and he has home field advantage, but push all the way? I mean factor in the thousands of deaths that just occurred in space and how drenched the world will be in the darkside... I mean... it will either amp him into godhood or you're very right in thinking he could be dragged into the darkside. However, darkside Windu is more terrifying than lightside Windu, and very likely to split into a third force instead of siding with Kun.

Kun's temple, from what I've read, is a very simple layout with a simple defense mechanism, a very deep lake. There is only one way across, and a labyrinth of catacombs and passages under the island. 2.if the resistance diverts, I would worry about the CA solidifying their hold rather than chasing. Playing tag isn't going to help the CA, but it definitely aids the RR. Kun was a Sith, so I doubt he'd have much of a problem letting Rathana fry. 3. Maul, as has been stated is Sith Ninja of terror. Kuat is extremely well defended and the rings are modular, so they can space any compartment, or lock it down totally. However, no one that I know of has ever attacked Kuat from inside the assembly ring. During a table top game I ran Sith players infiltrating Kuat turned hyperdrives into WMDs. Wouldn't be negotiations as much as it would be rampant destruction.

If I can argue a bit on the side of the CA, I think you're vastly underestimating the capabilities of the Massassi and the rest of the "primitive" CA. They may not have the hypertech that the RR are carrying, but there is a reason why Naga Sadow picked them. Their skin is modified by sith alchemy, they wear alchemically treated armor, and they were almost universally force sensitive. Their eyes glowed, which implies some sort of natural low light or dark vision. They lack the very long range of the clones, but make up for it with intimate knowledge of the terrain.

I'm at work

I'd call it a waste of Massassi. Terentatek are jedi bloodhounds with serious offense. If Kun can indeed mass produce, then I'd use the Terentatek to hunt down the jedi and force the expenditure of resources. If there are 10 convoys headed to the base, but only 5 have Jedi, let out your terentatek and they'll find out where they are. Sure, they'll die, but in the process you force the enemy to commit resources to your fodder and let your night raids know where to hit hardest.

Essentially Star, what I think it comes down to is what your forces are doing, because they can't be defending basilisks and killing RR troops all at once. You can't have your entire force active at one time (because otherwise you wont have any reserves or anyone ready for night raids) and committing to the defense of the Basilisks is a serious effort. I would wager 20-30 Massassi per basilisk to ensure their safety.

See? It fits the terentatek like a spiked leather glove.

Something I had forgotten to include in my planet analysis is the negative aspect of the roads that the RR are so proud of. Roads don't discriminate, they make everyone's travel faster and easier. assuming they are able to stall the onslaught of the RR's armor, the CA could potentially use these shiny new roads to move their big heavy objects around. Knowing the arrogance of most Sith, I could see someone like Kun letting one convoy reach the gates just so they could have a usable road with which to bring their juggernauts in to play.

I think at this point, and I apologize if i missed it, a ruling on Battle Meditation needs to be made. If it can both harm the CA and bolster RR troops, then the Basilisks are in for a very bad day. Meditation influenced mistimed jump plus meditation aided rocket will mean swaths of dead basilisk. even if it is only one sided it will mean more crippled basilisks, more frequently.

The XR-85 tank droids may not be mobile skyscrapers any more, but they do have the height advantage. They'd be the ones I would watch out for more than anything. I'm not 100% on their armaments, but from what the RR have been saying they have some seriously heavy firepower as well. Only when the Basilisk gets in close will it have to be immediately concerned about the heavy ordinance ground troops. However, I can't stress enough how much sheer firepower that the RR can belch at the basilisks, lucky shots, clusters of grenades, and highly mobile ground troops will contribute to the basilisk death toll. The terentatek have to worry about the rockets and armor more frequently, because they are big, unwieldy and make excellent targets.

I call them Black Metal, or Death Metal if you prefer, Rancors. I just can't imagine them running into battle without that genre as a sound track.

My research missed something very nasty. Apparently, battle hydras are a thing and that is terrifying. Even if Kun can't create more, it is noted that they did return to the wild. If Kun can leverage these things into service, I would drop the terentatek for them.

Happy to help! I just want to make sure that all the factors get included. My personal advice, based on terrain, to each side is this: CA: Keep your commanders on the ground. Maul and a small squad of Massassi could probably cause more havoc on the ground than elsewhere. The potential to wipe out entire convoys and masses of troops can't be ignored. The terrain favors this play heavily. RR: You need all the supplies you can get as fast as you can get them, in the off chance that your assault takes longer than a handful of days. Aggression is your ally, and I would suggest letting Windu and a strike team operate away from your armor. Keep him away from the main body of your troops, and thus the brunt of the enemy action, so that he can strike at Kun more directly.

I've always seen Yavin 4's terrain to be very much like Vietnam. As easy as it is to handwave the problem of trees, cover and line of sight, these issues are of huge importance to the CA and to the effectiveness of the RR. It doesn't matter if you have a hundred thousand sensors and 360 degree firing arcs, dense jungle is amazingly good at absorbing everything. So, what follows is an unbiased assessment of terrain on both armies. CA: Terrain is their saving grace. Dense jungle trees will catch rounds like living cover. Loud jungle creatures, such as the howler and the Runyip are going to set off sensor left and right, and providing aural cover for the much quieter, and native, Massassi. Sure, A UT-AT can bulldoze a few trees, but can it bulldoze a dozen? How many rounds will the Clones waste on charging runyip? With this in mind, we have to include things like day and night in the assessment. At night the Massassi and Sun Guard won't have the cover of moving animals, but they do have the benefit of dense canopies, and practical knowledge of the terrain. They won't be moving based on what some map, acquired by some satellite or spy, says; they'll be moving on instinct and training. When the convoys hunker down at night, which is a likelihood, they become fodder for Massassi guided Sun Guard assaults and ambushes. The counter to this, is of course free use of night vision, but how many hours can a clone sniper stay on scope before they miss something, or they get a little sloppy? Negatively, the basilisks and terentatek will be easily spotted pushing through the jungle, meaning they will be relegated to clean up and emergencies. Why clean up and emergencies? Clones with rocket launchers, tanks with about the same. The darkside nexus will strongly work in Kun's favor, especially if he is in fact capable of mass producing terentatek as has been claimed. However, if he is erstwhile distracted, how effective will his troops be? Also, as has been stated, the CA heavy armor is locked in place around Kun's temple, negating their immediate impact. RR Alright, the terrain is astoundingly against the RR here. Their armor and troops are going to be tied up with moving through the jungles and hills. They do however have the purely technological advantage over the CA and the terrain. Sensor technology will allow the convoys to be more aware of what lies in front of and around them, night vision will remove some of the scariness of night raids, and the information advantage will likely steer them clear of traps. Armor advantage will likely protect them from most of the jungle worries, such as wet feet (never underestimate the power of trenchfoot) and gnarled flora. It is the sheer specialized technological prowess and versatility that will lead the Clones through the jungle. Because each squad is almost guaranteed to have at least one specialist in a given area, they can adapt and keep moving. Bombs for bigger trees, fire for hostile fauna, jump troops for perspective, and heavies for enemy armor. The RI would also likely provide a list of natural creatures and their pertinent information. This is a blessing and a curse as the Clones will no doubt be aware of such things as the Piranha Beetle, meaning they're going to be more on edge, more likely to make mistakes. The Ri suggested paths will also likely be through some of the worst geography on Yavin 4, because no army leave the easy route untrapped. This complication would likely slow down the convoys further. Final thoughts: The jungle favors the natives. Technology negates much of the advantage, but also creates new ones. How many times do sensors need to ping before clones shut them off? How many trees can a clone rifle penetrate? How many rounds will each vehicle carry? Again, I can't shake the feeling of an impending Vietnam like scenario occurring, where bombing runs were the only thing that saved the technologically advanced force from the predations of the native ones.

Ok, so this is gonna take a bit, but I plan on getting to the heart of some issues I believe "scrub" PvPers may have. I've mostly been an Imperial PvPer (Toxa), simply because Imp Rp is so vibrant, and I think I do alright. I don't have a level 55 to pvp with, but I'm very sure I won't even try to PvP at 55. Toxa is a dps Sorc, and while i knock down decent numbers, in my mind, I'm nowhere near as good as other players. I worry my rotation isn't good enough, my maneuvering is bad, or what have you. To me it has always seemed that there is a "right way" to PvP, and I just don't know it. I won't PvP at 55, and below that I do so sparingly. It is this mentality of "One right way" to do it, and the lack of resources to get better. I can be stomped six ways to sunday, or roll over enemy teams, but in the end I leave with there are better players, but I don't know how to get better. The difference between crushing defeat or one sided win seems like luck to me. Even now in my Trooper alt, how well I do seems almost entirely based on how lucky I am with teammates and opponents.

Everything is conditioning, until you're getting shot at. Considering it is a safe bet to assume RR has detailed maps, those XR-85s are going to head into a position that allows the most useful application of force. not saying the Massassi aren't in their element, just that their element is quite a bit more hostile than normal.

I was comparing the light vehicles together, without factoring in soldiers. With troops, the game changes slightly. On the side of the CA: The Basilisk is designed to shut down armor and exposed troops. Using Wookieepedia as my equipment source, a basilisk can tear through starship hull given the chance. Sun Guard were great soldiers, and could be carried into battle on the backs of the Basilisks, one at a time. The Terentatek is a soldier killer, immune to the force, feeding on the dark side, and built like a Black Metal Rancor. Unfortunately, none of these light "vehicles" are dedicated transports, meaning the Massassi and a good number of Sun Guard are left on their feet and struggling through the mud, muck and mess. How effective their tired troops will be remains to be seen. For the RR: XR-85 is a tower that is designed for urban combat and being a tank. Wookieepedia says they were almost impregnable, but their armaments would of course be scaled back, befitting their reduced footprint. So, they'll be able to see the enemy coming, and get early kills in, reducing the number of troops/vehicles the RR clones will face. UT-AT is a beast. It has unbreakable treads, carries 20 soldiers, and has the offense to go toe to toe with a dedicated tank. With Republic intelligence handing out maps, and the XR-85s picking off the advancing troops, the UT-ATs can wreck the comparatively unarmored CA Troops. This is going to force the CA to choose between fighting off the transports, and stopping the brunt of the assaults, or ignoring the advancing soldiers and going to the throat.

Considering it is the pre-Endor version, its weaponry would be scaled back as well. I won't call it useless, but its armaments won't match what a basilisk can do. While it does have the height advantage, and is more maneuverable, the early XR-85 isn't going to be as impactful as the larger, more offensive version.

The intangibles favor the RR. The questions are how much influence and damage can Nomi exert at once? If she can play head games with a Sith Master, a dedicated Sith Apprentice, a powerful Mandalorian, how much juice is left for her soldiers? I may be underestimating the scope of her natural ability, or overestimating the capabilities of the CA, but I think Nomi will have to choose between soldiers and generals if she wants to make the biggest splash. Republic Intelligence is another variable. If they've done their homework they can potentially provide safe routes for the Jedi strike teams, or sabotage the enemy's war droids. I mean, if they're really on their game, they may even be able to prepare entrance sites into the Temple for the Strike teams. However, if they're off their game Jedi could be led into ambushes or traps.

The big decider on the ground is the terrain. Yavin is jungle, swamps and mess. The Juggernauts are all wheeled vehicles, and will be insanely difficult to maneuver through the mess that is Yavin. The RR's Tank droids are in a similarly bad position, being approximately 95 feet long, their best use may be as stable defense platforms. The Basilisks and the Terentatek don't have those same limitations and can move more organically through the jungle. UT-AT's are also less hampered by Yavin, allowing for aggressive action. Unless a basilisk can open fire on them, then the UT-AT will just roll through all the small arms fire that the CA can levy.

So long as the senator is doing things legally and openly, they have the right to free speech. It's the same as some religious extremist factions being elected into to office. Everyone has the right to express their ideals and work towards achieving them, peacefully.