Interesting but your missing a key aspect. You can use your stun to bait their stun breaker and then at any point (but best during their undying rage or other big cds) just remove your dots with force shroud, force cloak and mind trap them. You can then use your rest ability to heal to full. Due to the duration of mind snap you can make them waste their undying rage or a big portion of their deflect or reset the duration of cloak of pain. Of course this only works in a strict 1v1 situation because if there are more people involved force cloak won't remove their "in-combat" status.

As usual people who have absolutely no idea what they are talking about, crying op and discarding math with their own anecdotal evidence and "how it feels". But hey i guess i just summed up 90% of the threads on any official pvp forums for any mmo ever made.

The problem with huttball (at least in my opinion) is the fact that it's a pvp scenario where doing actual pvp is bad for the outcome. Playing for objectives in huttball often enough means avoiding any contact with the enemy team what so ever. If you have them ball your better off knocking people off and ccing because killing them means they will respawn in front of you ball carrier. Also one of the best choices is, again, to avoid the enemy as much as possible and try to move in front for a pass / grip. If the enemy has the ball you need to kb the sorcs / people waiting for the pass off the catwalks and grip the ball carrier into fire. Or alternative, if they already setup their goal with grips and managed to get ahead, ignore them and let them score while you set up your own goal by taking the mid and spreading towards their goal. The only shred of actual pvp you might get is when fighting to take the mid for the next ball but even then it's more of a cc and knockback frenzy then pvp. That's why the entire concept seems bad to me. In a pvp setting if you are better than your oponent and manage to kill them you should be rewarded not punished. Because that's what pvp is about... player vs player not player vs acid / fire /random ball. The objectives should automatically derive from being better at pvp not from avoiding it.

Actually the exotech stims are better than rakata. And they are boe. Without any crew skill restrictions. Synthweaving for example is the best crew skill for a sin due to the bop augmented bracers /belt. Augmented implants are boe so anyone can have them so i don't see how they are a "perk" for any given crew skill. All that rakata does is give you inferior stats (why would you want that?!?!) in exchange for saving some credits (which are a non factor seeing as the game throws them at you and there is close to nothing to spend them on). If the entire post is made from the pov of someone trying to make credits on the GTN with their crew skill... does it really matter? Have you EVER had credits problems? If you did you doing something very very very wrong.

Winner is decided at random only in tie situations. If you get to the data core faster than the other team than you win according to the rules. If both team get to the data core the one that had the faster time wins and that's not a tie.

Ok if i got your question right then this is how it goes: You are attacking and you got 8 mins. Now let's say you get to the data core in 6 mins (2 mins left on the clock). Now the other team is attacking and has the same amount of time you used to get to the end. So 6 mins. They don't get the same time as the first attackers (in this case you). If they finish faster (with 1 min left on the clock like you said) then they win because they actually finished in 1 minute faster than you (3 mins faster than the original time).

You clearly are doing something very very wrong. Using 4p survivor gear (for 5% more dmg) with end/wp/power mods and end/power surge enhs plus some rakata pieces my highest shock crit when using adrenal+relic was just a tiny bit over 6k on some poor undergeared guy. I also hit plenty of 4.5-5k on "decently" geared sorcs. That's the initial shock, if chain shock procs you can add 50% to that. My highest force lightning tick is somewhere just shy of 3k, but that again was on a very very squishy sorc. Usually is anywhere from 1.5k to 2.5k depending on armor and expertise. Granted i have very close to or even BiS gear as i changed every single mod and enh which your every day player wouldn't do, but still darkness is more than capable to pull out those numbers. And tbh that's a bit to much for a tank spec that's even extremely simple to play. I wouldn't mind if they toned down darkness and gave deception some perks, or even to madness since i find it even more interesting and engaging to play.

First of all the warzone expertise adrenal was not affected by diminishing returns anyway since it gave a fixed percentage and not expertise rating. So it won't benefit in any way from the new diminishing returns formula. Second of all the exotech stims (the patern that drops from raid) are better than rakata stims at the moment and they are boe and they don't require bio to use. So in conclusion the patch changes nothing. /end thread

Why would be strange? It's exactly like it says on the tooltip: +15% expertise. It's the same wording as the "deflection" skill that increases defense by 50%. It doesn't increase your existing defense rating by 50%, it adds 50% defense on top of what you already have. (it's easy to check it out from the defense tab) You can also (kinda) check the expertise adrenal by picking it up in a 10-49 wz. Since you have zero expertise at that level, according to your first paragraph you shouldn't get any dmg increase from it. But since you do it's clearly additive.

I never mentioned anything about power and diminishing returns because that's common knowledge. I was simply underlining the fact that the expertise adrenal isn't affected by it since most people are under the impression that all expertise above 10% somehow disappears in a black hole and it's totally useless.

Thanks for the report Apparently truth hurts

The things you want to compare relative to their usefulness is the power adrenal and the expertise adrenal. The surge one is rather lackluster because of the easiness of getting the surge "soft cap". From my anecdotal and unreliable observations the power adrenal gives you a bit more dmg, but the expertise one last longer and also gives you 15% damage reduction and 15% healing done (if it applies to your class). Another thing to note is that the expertise adrenal is in no way affected by diminishing returns since it gives a set amount of expertise (in this case 15%) and not expertise rating. I used to use (i can't really think how to rephrase that at this hour ) both of them depending on situation. Wanted to burst someone asap and the duration didn't really matter since he was gonna day fast? Power adrenal. Fighting someone 1v1? Expertise adrenal for the extra 15% dmg reduction and healing.

I got a survivor set with dps mods for darkness, a stalker set with full power and a stalker set with full crit Aww and a survivor set for tanking. All BM. Working on my second rakata set now. You always find new stuff to buy with champ comms

Champion comms are in no way useless, at least at the moment. There are always mods to be changed in your pvp gear (or your pve gear for that matter). I mean for example the BM stalker set needs all it's mods replaced asap. Same goes for the rakata set. The you have to consider changing mods in your "off-spec" set, like tanking for me. The BM survivor set also has ****** mods. I just hope they don't mess up that badly on the war hero sets, would be rather dumb to have to use 56 mods in it since there are no decent 58 mods around. PS: when i say mods i'm referring to all the replaceable thingies not only to mods specifically.

Ok since the thread eventually did derail a bit in this direction i'll give my opinion here as well According to jedilace.com expertise caps at 20% and it's still possible to exceed that using the exp adrenal / wz buffs. Also a thing to take note of is that the exp adrenal / wz buff aren't affected by diminishing returns since they give straight up exp % and not expertise rating. Based on my anecdotal and totally unreliable observations gathered from just doing wzs with both the rakata power adrenal and the exp adrenal i keep getting about the same max dmg results, slightly in favor of the rakata adrenal. So a difference exists but in no way "miles ahead". Add to that the extra duration, the 15% dmg reduction and the 15% extra healing done and it seems better. But even i'm not totally convinced of it for some reason. Edit: the rakata adrenal gives around 475-480 power after the nerf it seems.

Why do you find biochem a must? I droped it to get the augmented rakata bracers/belt and found, much to my surprise, that the exotech stims are actually better. And they are quite cheap as well, considering the vast amount of credits available. As far as the adrenal / pot i'm using the pvp ones and they seem to do the job just as good.

By total coincidence the best healer on my realm (and the healer of choice of my every day premades) is an op. And he'll surely have a spot in our 8 man. As a matter i fact i don't believe picking certain classes will severely drop your chances to win. It will happen for the top of top games but it won't mater for the 99% of the population. And i'm sure we'll manage just fine with an "underpowered" healer on our rooster just as we managed in other games. In the end i think we'll just have to wait and see and keep in mind that huttball isn't the only wz. Yes you have a point about HB and op healers and if i were to think about a perfect dream comp i would never think about bringing an op instead of a sorc. But at the same time i'm thinking that an op would be better in VS let's say where a blind might be "the thing" that brings you a cap. Or in Alderaan you could move around a 2 man team in stealth to try to put presure/cap another base (op healer + sin for example). I'm not saying everything is fine and perfect for every class and they all have their spots on any rooster. We need to wait and let a certain "meta-game" develop before we can make a point because things that seem op vs random pugs or even vs 2 separate premades in the same team might not be even viable when dealing with a 8man voice coordinated team. I've seen that happen in a lot of games where a certain setup / strategy was quickly replaced when the players discovered the next "best thing" or the counter to that specific play. And that happened w/o any interference from the devs. And just as well i've seen devs hammering all the "new things" and "thinking out-of-the-box" as soon as they appeared and then moaning about the stale state of their game. We just need to let the game grow and mature and only at that point we can single out and try to change elements that are damaging or restricting gameplay.

I like how you aren't exactly able to refute the main point of my post (that those abilities are in no way "not fair" or that your rant about "how it's supposed to be played" holds absolutely no water) so you just hang onto my supposedly "aggressive nature". I dread the day bio will make the changes that you and other people are suggesting because you can't cope with them or because of some self-entitled mentality of "i want to be able to do everything on MY class". I would also like to point out that i don't understand how passing could be more "skillful". If you want to pull or charge you select the target and then push that respective key. If you want to pass you push the key and then select the target in a rather large area. Very large i would like to add. You can't really miss unless some random spams throws your hand halfway across the map. So care to elaborate on that topic? Further on i find your desire for every class to be able to do anything quite disturbing. It's the same mentality that has thrown wow into the current sad state it is where every class can do everything and all synergy was thrown out the window. Yes sins, juggs and marauders make for great ball carriers. Yes sorcs are a great support class in huttball. On the other hand you play the hands down best class to deal with sorcs moving in position for pulls. The shear amount of burst and dmg a well played/geared sniper can put out on a sorc is incredible. That's your job. To stop them. Just as a PT's job for example is to pull out great hooks into hazards. He won't be carrying the ball either. He's not as suited for that as other classes, but hes skills bring him a spot in the team for a plethora of different reasons. Specialize and build a team based on synergies and covering each others' weaknesses. That's the entire point of a class based pvp system. PS: the day i see a team running around with 7 sorcs and a tank is the day i get 5 snipers and obliterate anything that passes in our half.

First of all can you please enlighten me about how huttball "is supposed to be played"? You guy keep throwing that expression around like you have some kind of inside knowledge of the developers' intentions. Do you actually know something from some reliable source or is it just how YOU think it should be played? Second, i bet every time you see a ball carrier you get in such a tunnel vision mode that you somehow miss the sorcs going around to pull him. Ow and of course you give him a full resolve bar in the first 2 seconds, god forbid you actually wait till he's over a fire vent or on he catwalk where stuns/kbs actually do something. And then you come here and complain it's impossible to stop it. Sure at that time it's already impossible. Very easy tho if you used your brains 1 minute earlier. I bet that if they remove the ability to pull people you'll continue to do the same thing while the enemy goes around and gets in position for a pass instead of a pull. What exactly is the difference? Tbh i find your kind extremely funny. Every time i get zerged on a catwalk i just jump down swiftly followed by the ENTIRE enemy team who just chose to totally ignore the sorc that was standing right besides me. And after they spam 5 stuns and mezzes on top of each other and i get pulled up with a full resolve bar they stay there and cry " THIS IZZ OPZZZ QQ".

How are armormech and synthweaving suffering exactly? They are, along with artifice, the only professions that give an increase in stats to you character (through augmented belt, bracer, relic). Armormech and synthweaving, are by far the top professions atm (from a min-max pov). Thanks to BW, who for some unknown and strange reason doesn't allow us to have more than 1 crafting profession i had to pick up artifice, get my exceptional relic and then drop it for synthweaving (and i'm now trying to get the crits but the game doesn't like me ) After the nerf biochem is kinda a "convenience" profession to save you some cash considering the exotech stims are actually better lol.

If kitting, good use of cc, good positioning and a decent knowledge of other classes' skill so you can counter them with your own doesn't count as "skill" (or w/e you want to call it) then what does? Staying face to face and spamming your dmg rotation on each other and may the best spammer win? Twitch reactions aka "i pushed my dmg cd first so i win"? For every sorc that knows how to kite, when to heal and when to do dmg, when to use hes cds in the end making for a very interesting fight i meet 30 who back-paddle and only spam click their lightning / pebbles while they keyboard turn. Charge is on 15 sec cd and refreshable with force push. The knockback is on 20 sec cd and the sprint is on 30 sec. You can match hes every "gap-creating" ability with your own. I'm sorry to say this and i don't want to sound like a jerk but it's most likely a "l2p" issue. Every time you lose a fight the first question must be "what did I do wrong?". Because even at the highest level in any game i doubt you can find anyone who will play flawlessly. You can control what are you are doing but you can't control your opponent. So work on improving what you can: your own "skills". We all still have things to learn to better our selves no matter how good we think we are and admitting that is the first step to improvement.

Ok. You both go it a bit wrong and i apologize for that. I probably didn't make my point clear enough. I don't think HD needs to be nerfed or that is the "cause" for anything. I don't think the darkness is especially op compared to other classes. Tho i think it's very strong. My entire point is that darkness does too much dmg for a tank spec and for the utility it brings. Especially perma guard which is insane on healers and it's by far the best ability in the game atm. I don't want darkness to be nerfed. I would like it to be tweaked with more emphasis on the tanking part and less on the dmg. Considering that the only defensive cd that our tank tree gives us (darkward) is borderline pathetic in pvp i would like some improvements in that area. And it all stems out from darkcharge tbh. We don't have any drawback strapped on it except 5% melee dmg bonus reduction. Like we really care how much our trash is hitting for :/ All other classes give up more to use their "guard" stance. The second point i was making is that if they would tweak darkness a bit in the right direction maybe they could do the same with deception. If they would strap a bit of utility on that spec it would make even more than playable. Even making our charges cost less (like 30-50) energy would be a bit of improvement since i always thought charge changing (stance-dancing, seal swapping w/e) makes for a more interesting and deeper gameplay. But i'm ranting already In the end i would like to mention the numbers issue. Yes i can go over 300k in almost every full time wz. If i get the "crowded voidstar corridors" i can get 450k or higher. Yes some of it might be irrelevant aoe dmg but in the end, it's a lot of dmg coming from a taking spec.

I know that marauders are capable of that. But let me know when a marauder brings any utility to hes team compared to a sin. Perma guard+taunts, aoe slow, debuffs and a grip. Im not saying marauders are a bad class, not by far. When played by a good player and with decent gear they are one of the best classes right now. Somewhere in the top 3. And tbh annihilation marauders are the only thing that really really gives me trouble in a 1v1. I'm just saying that a spec with so much "staying" power and utility as darkness shouldn't bring that much dmg to the table. It's a tanking spec after all. It shouldn't allow you to fight for the top places on the dmg meters. I'm not campaigning for a darkness nerf. I just think maybe they should give them a bit more "tankiness" while reducing their dmg potential. Something like some better defensive cooldown somewhere high in the tree instead of that pos darkward. The sad part tho is that besides darkness we really don't have anything else going for us. Both deception and madness are pos when you actually run into people who have a clue and focus you and keep guard / taunt for their squishies. PS: a decent part of a marauders healing is done to the party. Therefor not very useful to hes survivability. All the healing a sin does is only to himself. It's the same concept as padding the dps meters with aoe vs single target. Hihi and to the guy above: do you really play a sin? Dark charge reduces melee dmg bonus by 5%. That's trash and erm... that's all. Too bad we rely on trash so much to do our burst/dmg.

Oo. Juggs are by far the best ball carriers due to their mobility by being able to go up on the z axis with their charge + intervene. When you couple that with the sorcs pull it makes for some quick and rather hard to stop scores. The team with the most mobility and/or the best positioning for passing wins. This isn't wow to go full tank on the carrier and slooowly crawl to the finish line. The faster that people learn this and stop all the "i haz tanking gearzz and 24k hp lololz me ball carrier" mentality the faster they'll start actually winning.

Yeah being able to self heal for 50K+ (i even got the 75k healing medal a few times) while doing 300k dmg with ease, being able to kill anything 1v1 (some classes like snipers, mercenary and sorcs having no chance whatsoever), having 7k armor and usually getting my top hit at 3.5k-4k is a bit too much. Oh let's not forget about guard which we lose nothing to use since we stay in dark charge anyway. Yes i find that being able to do all that at the same time is a bit over the top. I would sincerely prefer for them to nerf darkness and buff the utility / survivability of deception. It's not killing the game, but it's one of the bad parts considering that 1 month ago we were 3 assassins on the server and now there are at least 4 in every wz. People tend to re-roll to whatever is "strong" at that time.