Master strike damage isn't our final burst at all. Dispatch and auto-crit Blade Storm are. Yes master strike is a huge part of our damage. Just like overhead slash and plasma brand, it is like both those spell an attack that grind the enemy health bar. But it is not a finisher. Master strike is used as start up and filler. It's good for chunking up the first part of the target healthbar and to fill the one gap there is in our focus management rotation. Hitting with the third strike from Master strike is great but rarely something you should bother getting to. Since overhead slash hit nearly as hard as the third strike without keeping you from moving (With the dot burn it hit as hard as the third strike overall). I don't need master strike to set up a kill, my overhead slash and plasma brand is all I need to set them up for a dispatch + crit blade storm. What a vigilance need is a root/slow breaker tied to their focused defense so they don't fall flat as soon as a root get you when not under unremitting. As for focus management, while under focused defense, our whole focus management is ****ed up and it basically make us unable to use our abilities reducing our DPS by a retarded high amount. Giving a root to Master strike is far from being the solution, it's just gonna OPfy the spec by giving us too much control. We already have tons of control abilities and we don't need another root. Force leap is already enough. Master Strike is easy to land and, even if you don't land the third attack, it doesn't kill your PvP rotation at all. And do you play a vigilance/vengeance or only assume things?

Dodge for scoundrel doesn't remove roots. -_- How many times do we have to tell people how scamper really work before they understand it's actually a very crappy ability in combat.

Here what's the choice they had: Making Focused/Enraged Defense remove roots and slows on activation and remove the focus/rage cost on the heal portion. That's what vigilance/vengeance needed. Vigilance/Vengeance does tons of damage in a good player hands and doesn't need a root on master strike to land all the 3 attacks without getting outranged. We already got a 3 seconds roots and master strike attack range is 10 meter (4m to activate but 10m hit range once active). Plus, people saying we are held back by not being able to deal damage with our master strike is just dumb. We are nearly always guaranteed 2 hits on our master strike and though the last hit does twice the damage, our bread and butter come from overhead/impale and dispatch/vicious throw proc. If I had to choose a spell to loose between impale, vicious throw, force scream, shatter and ravage, I'd drop ravage. Not because it's bad, not because it's hard to land a full ravage, but because our real strength come from our extremely pressuring damage from our very clean focus/rage management along our near perfect rotation for PvP. This pressure get shut down entirely as soon as you add Focused/Enrage Defense focus/rage draining or if you get rooted.

It cost upper hands. What's your point? Disapearing act got a 2 minutes CD for sawbones. If you can't kill a sawbones in less then 2 minutes then you and/or your team got a L2P issue. As for vigilance, the root wasn't needed at all. Vigilance needed Focused defense to not pump into our focus pool while active and also for it to break roots and slows on activation. Vigilance is just too easy to shut down. It just take a root or for us to use Focused defense for our damage to fall flat.

If after they vanish they waste 3-4 scampers worth of energy to get 30 meters away, then those operatives are very bad and just emptied their energy pool when they could simply have walked away in steatlh.

I don't see how giving a root on vigilance/vengeance master strike/ravage not gonna result into a new FOTM

I can read correctly and what I can see: Madness assassin is still completely unviable. Only sage/sorc could cleanse their dots, cleanse immunity isn't gonna make them viable. They boosted all the attacks madness doesn't care about. Except maybe for their execute but that is only if they can ever reach it.

Tons of stupid changes. They completly ignored madness assassin and increased the already freaking super high damage of deception... Root on ravage for vengeance jugg... The only good change is probably the guarded by the force change and the cover change for scoundrel...

Not balanced at all. They are simply answering to the cry babies who believe vigilance doesn't do enough damage and ignored those who actually pointed out the real problem: We are missing a root breaker.

Zealous leap is only 1 second root not 2 seconds so it's not much of a big deal. And if you use your knockback before the leap root end, you are doing it extremely wrong and deserve to get zealous leaped back to you. It's easy to wait 1 extra second then start moving side way and pushback. Even better when you use that extra second of waiting to cleanse any eventual force slow they can put on you. Pushback while running and force slow while he's landing out of distance for a zealous leap and there you go... I love how someone said I knew nothing about sage/sorc because I forgot about the mando set bonus... I mean... it's not like I was wrong all around. I'm actually pretty accurate in everything I said. Unlike that someone who splatter tons of misinformation all around this thread. The bonus set CD reduction is only used by gunnery mandos and the talent is only used by gunnery mandos too. Therefor, the combat medic and assault spec both have a 30 seconds CD on their knockback. While the sorc got a baseline of 20 seconds without having to spent points to lower the CD or without loosing a bonus set just for it. And like I said, stop ignoring all the advantages of the abilities sage/sorc has. I'll tell you like I tell every other people complaining about their class being UP: Accepting that your class can't do everything you want it to do is the first step toward understanding of how true balance between classes work, because every classes has their flaws and cons. So stop asking bioware to have everything like you were a kid in a candy shop. If you want your class to be balanced, seek where the barrel is leak instead of putting the barrel inside another barrel to avoid water from spilling all around the floor. Edit: Also, I forgot to mention it, but the knockback is OFF THE GLOBAL COOLDOWN. Hence why it's the best knockback in the game.

Sage and sorc on PoT5

I didn't say balance get root on their knockback. I said balance get a root on a low cooldown. You know... that last talent in their tree called sever force. -_-

Edit: Scratch that, I forgot the set bonus. Still, you mustn't forget their knock back is baseline 20 seconds CD and if you get a talent in telekinetic/lightning you get a root tied to it. Which is much better then a snare. Sage/sorc got plenty of survivability tools in their DPS trees.

Don't laugh, I killed a ball carrier with strike and proceeded to capping the huttball. It reminds me of good times in WoW with my boomkin dagger stabbity stab.

Is this serious or troll? If it is serious then I suggest you go read some guides in the sage/sorc forum.

And I want to have an army of illegal robot in my cargo bay that I can deploy on the battefield whenever I want because I'm a smuggler.

And people ask to have uniqueness but then complain they don't have everything other classes have... First off, I say it's the best knockback because its the lowest CD knockback in the game. 20 seconds is VERY SHORT. It is also the knockback with the highest damage output (Considering it does about as much damage as force push but in AoE), it also has it's knockback heal on the first tier of the healing tree and is a far better heal then the mando knockback (And don't say that heal doesn't matter, cause it really does matter.) and on top of it, it's the knockback with the longest effect range (15 meters). I'd trade my knockback on my mando for this one any time. I could care less about a snare if it means I get to cut the cooldown for more then 200% and deal far higher damage and healing from it. And the knockback distance is far enough to fully do it's job. Stop being so negative and maybe you'll realize how much you have instead of seeing what you don't have.

I should be the one wondering if you even ever touched a sage/sorc. And stop making up things about stuff I never said. I didn't talk about group utilities and even if I did, sage/sorc are far from lacking in the group utility department. Using bubble doesn't mean to cast it on 7 people. Using one bubble ain't gonna OOF you and between spending 65 force to keep someone alive (who's probably gonna do much more then you ever will seeing how terrible you seem to be) and keeping your 65 force like a greedy idiot who's going to die in the next few seconds because he refused to help an ally, I pretty much believe bubble is one of the best utility in the game. An instant on-demand shield that is only limited by a resource you are supposed to manage in the first place. CC being sage/sorc biggest flaw? I hope you are kidding me... I don't even see how you can even believe that. Sage/Sorc got the best knockback (Because it's only 20 seconds CD) and the best slow (30m range, high damage, instant and almost free to use with a very fair Cooldown). Mandos would kill to get that slow. What does other classes have? Lemme guess... you're gonna say Scoundrel with their super OP flashbang? Yeah right... and the only other CCs they have is a melee stun and a slow on the same CD as yours but only useable in melee and it deals far less damage (Tranquilizer too but in a fight that is barely a factor) Just check at every classes and you'll see that aside from tanks and deception sins (Which are inquisitor too in light armor), sage/sorc got the most CC of all the DPS and healers hands down. Or maybe it is that you never played anything else and have no clues how other classes work in this game? Take a good look at other classes. Stop acting like every other classes got everything and that you are a poor little sage/sorc that can't do nothing against the evil marauder. I can kite a marauder all freaking day on my sage. Bubble sap in TK, Power force speed in heals and spam root in balance, combined with the very short CD push back that is so godly easy to aim. Add to this force barrier, instant stun, force slow and all the other kind of CC you can get from talent (Root TeleWave, root force wave, dot slow in heals, spammable pebbles in balance) and, icing on the cake, force effect cleanse. Oh! And I almost forgot. You can heal to full. Sage/sorc are the king of kiting and put every other classes to shame in terms of running away from trouble. (Aside from shadows/assassins) They are perfect where they stand. The problem? They are the #1 focus of everyone because they take the most damage. More tools won't bring anything to the sage/sorc. They'll still die as fast when stunned by anything and they'll still always be the only choice to focus on in every arenas. The solution? Increase passive DR. More active gameplay? I always been all about more active gameplay to increase the skill cap. But there are things that has to be passive. How stupid would it be if everyone had 0% DR and had to click a button every 10 seconds in order to get their armor DR? Plus Sage/sorc are far from being the one in need of more active gameplay. Vanguards/PTs are boring as F with their spam Ion pulse/Flame burst and their total lack of any damaging spell rotation. (Sorry Vanguards/PTs but this is totally true) Same can be told with smashing monkeys and their brain dead rotation. Also, bubble stun ain't active gameplay at all. Passive DR isn't active either but it is by far the best solution to fix sage/sorc current problem: Being an overly focused target in arenas.

I could not care less if you believe I don't play the class. And I'll post here if I want to. Feel free to report me to Bioware if I ruin your foruming experience. Seeing how people ask for stupid changes that aren't needed rather then something much needed like passive DR just shows how much mostly all sages/sorcs in this game are backpedaling forcespeeder that wants the game to play for them.

Or they can actually... you know... do something useful like taking care of near 2 years old bugs, balance and new stuff to do? But spectating boring arenas seems like a much more important thing to work on.

That's simply overexagerating it... It's like saying snipers should be able to one shot people because they can't be playing like other classes and deal roughly the same damage. Classes should obviously be different, but that doesn't mean putting it to the extreme. Sage/Sorc arn't getting cover, interrupt immunity, CC immunity, high defense chance, damage reduction talents from standing still etc etc etc. No. They'll simply be taking less damage removing the death mark on their head. Changing their damage reduction to something more toward medium armor isn't gonna remove their uniqueness. It's not gonna change their skill set, not gonna do anything to their gameplay or rotation. Sniper are turret rDPS, mercs are Meatbag rDPS, sorc will still be the squishiest and play the same as it did before. Except, this time they won't get killed in a global.

Cry more please. The best way to make an impact in a warzone or arena is with a DPS class. Since mostly everything that is running around the warzones are terrible at pressing buttons, DPS could hardly be more crappy.

And that is where you got it all wrong... Sage/Sorc need passive damage reduction, not more CC or escapes or heals or any other kind of tools. The reason sage and sorcs suck in arenas is that they are the number 1 target due to how they take more damage then anyone else with their light armor and few passive defensive talents. Personally, I'd give sorc a passive ability that make Deionized (the debuff you get from bubble) increase their physical damage reduction to the values of a medium armor.

That is what I've been yelling on the roofs for months now. Sage/Sorc need passive damage reduction and not more tools... They already are one of the classes with the most tools in the game.