No. Annihilate is Weapon Damage, not Kenetic. It does not benefit from Malice or any force related buffs.

It's pretty tough, and you're not alone here. I've been saying that for a while now that a class such as ours, pure DPS, should be able to hit this medal quite easily. Not saying to make it that simple, but we shouldnt have to have the stars align for it to happen. As far as the best spec to be able to do it on? Probably Carnage. If you pop your relic, adrenal and Bloodthirst, then Gore and Force Scream, you should be able to do it. The key is to make sure that Execute is active to get the extra 10% Damage to Force Scream. If you have all of those things you should be close to 5k. I have hit people in full BM gear for 4700 with this combo. But while that medal is cool? With Carnage spec I was capable of getting 6 Medals in VS or Huttball, and 8 medals in CW(Defender Medals) whereas with Annihilation spec I get 8 Medals in HB/VS and 10 Medals in CW because im capable of the 300k damage and 75k healing one everytime now. With Carnage, the stars would have to align for me to get 300k since I was very squishy. I would assume that once you start seeing new gear, like Warhero Gear or something, that medal is just going to happen when you least expect it to. I stopped "trying" for it because I found myself always trying to set up for the one big hit, which got derailed 75% of the time anyway from a stun, knockback or something like that. With the new patch coming, your going to want to focus on the first 4 medals, and everything after that is gravy. The problem with Annihilation is you wont see the 5k hit medal. Even though Annihilate is technically the hardest hitting move we have, it's also just "Weapon Damage" so it's not affected by any Force related buffs such as Malice or Execute. You're lucky to see 4k on that one.

I would love to have that conversation. Let me know what questions you have of why I chose the talents I chose. I says MAYBE Subjugation, because some people have made good arguments to not take it, although to me, its a core talent.

That's a joke right? You have 1/2 2/3 in far too many catagories, which is just bad. Horrible actually. 2/2 or 3/3 in any of them would be vastly better then 1/2 or 2/3 a couple different ones. This is the kind of spec that gets someone to absolutely hate this class. They have a little bit of everything, but not enough of it. This is the build that most PvPers should be going for. Like it or not, this should be the cookie cutter build, obviously with an option of putting filler points where you see fit. But you have to realize something. These tree's are filled with 2 types of talents. Filler talents, which are talents that will not make or break your spec, and can be chosen to fit your play style. Core Talents, these are talents that no Marauder should ever go without, under no circumstances. Especially to take a filler talent over it. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#100bIbRrRMcGzZhMbZh.1 Feel free to move 2/2 from Close Quarters and MAYBE Subjugation, but anyone whos ever tried to burn a healer down knows how much a 6 second interrupt can be effective. The 2/2 in Close quarters can be moved to any of the following: Ferocity Phantom Seeping Wound Defensive Roll Ferocity, Phantom and Defensive Roll all have very specific uses, whereas Seeping Wound and Close Quarters have uses that you will be using in every single fight, which is why I would put a priority on either of those two talents. If you find that you are being kited alot? Take Seeping Wound. If you find that you're killing a Healer for 15 minutes because he keeps healing himself, then go for Close Quarters. However if you don't take Subjugation, then forget Close Quarters. Anyone who thinks otherwise about this spec, really needs to re-evaluate their decision to play a Marauder. Taking a Filler Talent over a Core talent just makes absolutely no sense at all, yet I see spec after spec on here doing just that, and you wonder why you are here on these forums, asking for help.

See this is why we have Undying Rage imo. Pop Undying Rage, pop Force Camo and you're still in good shape. When your popping it, you're usually looking to get away and grab a med pack or something anyway, but there are plenty of other filler talents that I think are better then Phantom. Close Quarters(for stunlocking healers/ranged DPS) and Seeping Wound to keep your target immobilized while you beat on them is good too. Phantom would be so situational compared to Close Quarters and Seeping wound which you would use during every single fight. So you basically have to ask? Take something I use during every single fight? OR Take something that can save me from Acid/Fire/Eminent Death every now and then? Don't forget we already have an oh crap button in Undying Rage, clearly if we are relying on 2 of these, we aren't playing our class very well. And Vakyoom, we are on the same server, anytime you want to queue up with me let me know. My guild never loses when we do WZ's Jailer is my name, Rua Dona is my guild.

Wow. Is this guy for real? He says "IMO the healing is a must". Yet he's also the same guy who says that taking 3/3 in Malice is pointless for the 6% increase in crit, considering that you only get healed if your bleeds crit,

Well, all I can say is I am extremely happy that there are people like you out there. I have a field day with you guys in WZ's. When you are wondering why you just got roflstomped, now you know. Keep feeding this forum bad information so there are less people who want to play this game. Go watch some of the people who have live streams and ask them what they think. They will tell you whats what.

This talent is specifically for one thing and one thing only. You know how Sorc's get that added root to their knockback? This is to combat that. Period. It allows you to remove yourself from that root and get back to the fight, instead of sitting there and getting obliterated.

All I can say is....the Shift and Alt key's are your friends. Use them. Use them a lot.

To the OP, your spec seems ok, but I would put 2 points into Enraged Charge instead of Defensive Roll and I would take 2 points from Close Quarters and put them in Seeping Wound. It sounds like you might be having trouble being kited and Seeping Wounds will help keep you on your target. My Best advice though, is to tell you to take whatever Xerain says and throw it out the window. Anyone who doesnt put 3/3 in Malice deserves to have his Marauder taken from him. Im pretty sure Malice is one of the FEW abilities that Marauders will take 3/3 in, regardless of their spec. It is a staple for our class, yet he believes that there is a filler talent that is more important. Go figure. The other thing I see is that you probably just need to work on your rotation a little and understanding it more. One of the problems I had initially was that I wasn't paying attention to Annihilate bringing Rupture off of cooldown. Let me tell you...this is HUGE. If you Rupture someone, followed by an Annihilate, and Annihilate brings Rupture off of CD, your DoT's still tick from Rupture on the target, but guess what? Your not waiting 9 seconds to refresh Rupture, your doing it as soon as the DoT's fall off. Doing this religiously will cause a huge increase in both damage and healing output.

And this is why you are bad, and will continue to be bad. Please stop wasting people's time here with your nonsense post's. Anyone in their right mind had 3/3 in Malice. If there was a cookie cutter build? 3/3 Malice would be a non-negotiable. And for the record? 54% Bleed crit> 50% Bleed crit all day long. Im curious to see what you thought was more important then taking the other 2 points in malice. This ought to be fun! As for the person talking about Enraged Charge not being viable after the first charge? I am speaking from a PvP prospective only in which that opening charge is done about 100 times during a singular Warzone. In PvE, especially on boss fights, it may not be as viable.

What are you talking about? Malice has nothing to do with fury generation. Malice gives every single ability that Marauder does, except white damage attacks(Annihilate) 6% more chance to crit. Thats Deadly Saber, Rupture, Force Scream, Force Choke, Vicious Throw, and Smash. All of those have a 6% chance to crit, then they do without this talent. And the Bleed DoT's count as well. So again, why am I not taking this as an Annihilation Marauder? And what does Malice have to do with Fury generation again? Please know what your talking about before you post something stupid.

There is so much bad here with this spec, I am amazed that you havent smashed your head off the wall on your way to BM. Where do I even begin? Lets start from right to left: 0/3 in Malice. Hmm. 6% Crit to everything we do(Minus white damage), including bleeds. *Looks at the talent Hungering* Yep you took Hungering. So my question is, why would you not want your Bleeds to do more damage 6% more of the time, and at the same time, why would you not want to be healed from those crits DoT's 6% more of the time? This logic is baffling to me. Crit% is the KEY to being a successful Annihilation Marauder. If it were 1% or maybe 2%? Ok I see it. But 6%??? Middle Tree: 2/2 in Cloak of Carnage. No. This talent is not worth losing out on doing 24% more damage with your offhand lightsaber, considering that most of our attacks use "Both Lightsabers" when dealing damage and calculating the total damage. This is a loss in DPS and a loss in self heals. If you HAVE to take Cloak of Carnage, then you simply do not take Defensive Forms. Middle Tree again: 2/2 in Defensive Roll? Huh? AoE damage only? And you took this talent over Enraged Charge? The talent that gives you the opportunity to Charge and go through an entire cycle of your rotation while allowing you keep your DoT's up almost the entire fight? People undervalue Enraged Charge and they really need to understand what that 1 extra rage represents. Annihilation Tree: Here is your problem. You are taking 2 of the 4 Fillers over other abilities that are WAY more useful to you. The 4 Fillers in this tree are Phantom, Seeping Wound, Ferocity and Close Quarters. You should only ever take 1 of these 2/2 and leave the rest at 0/2 simply because the other talents where those points can be spent are just way too strong to not take, especially for filler talents. Here is what a good Annihilation Build should look like. Again, put your 2/2 in any of the 4 filler talents I mentioned above, this is where I happen to put mine: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#100bIrRrR0cGzZhMbZh.1 This gives you maximum critical chance you can have from talents, our #1 Stat because of how it affects our DPS and self heals. Both of which define this spec. It also gives you the benefit of charging in and completing a full rotation, along with keeping your DoT's up almost the entire fight. Something you cannot do without 2/2 Enraged Charge. Remember, a filler is just that. A filler. It is not designed to be a life altering talent. its a talent that you can look at and say...hmm I wouldnt mind being able to do this every now and then, like canish and take no damage(Situational, mostly in Huttbal for popping it when pulled or pushed into fire/acid). Or Predation, again very situational. Pop it to score a point, woo! Umm...ok now what? We scored, and probably didnt need predation to do it, but now all your fury is gone and you could have been healing your team for 6% of their maximum HP instead. Close Quarters, again situational if you are fighting a healer. you can basically lock them down with this talent. And lastly, Seeping Wound. The least situational of the 4, in the sense that you gain a slow effect using an ability that's already in your rotation, saving you the global cooldown of having to use Crippling Slash, and the rage from having to use it too. Which is why I chose that over the other 3. Its something I will use in every fight, in every single WZ to keep myself on my target, while spending the least amount of rage, and using the least amount of global cooldowns.

Ok, it's pretty simple. If you are an Annihilation Marauder, and you are not using Berserk with your 30 points of Fury? Stop playing Marauder. Predation is SO circumstantial its not even funny, where as all of the other talents you can take over that are things you will do and use at all times in a WZ. How is a situational talent more important then talents you will use 90%+ of the time? I just don't follow that logic. You're telling me that oh the -10% Damage taken helps the Ops group. AND? 6% of their Maximum HP doesnt?

Having to use Assault requires the use of a global cooldown. That in itself is just bad. Time is money friend. Secondly, your not sure if Malice is a must? Is that a joke? Annihilation spec is BASED on critical strike bleeds. Please look at the talent tree and read the talent Hungering and tell me you don't want 6% more Crit. 6% Crit is 6% more likely to do 2 things. 1, more damage because a crit dot hits for more then a normal dot, and 2nd, you only get healed if it the dot CRITS! This talent is a no brainer, and if you are not 3/3 in it then please go play an Arsenal Bounty Hunter. Its amazing from reading these forums how bad some Marauders are. You should have to take a test before offering advice to people asking questions because alot of these posts are just....wow. Bad. In a few pugs I did today I was well over 400k and over 100k healing. You don't get 100k healing unless your focusing on taking Rupture off of cooldown. I see a ton of Anni Marauders doing 150k-250k with 15-20k healing. These people have no freaking clue *** they are doing. If you aren't getting the 75k Healing medal, then you are playing this class wrong.

If you pug a lot? Annihilation. You will never get any heals in a pug, and this spec allows you to survive for much longer with your own heals. If you have a group with a dedicated healer? Carnage can be very devastating, but getting heals is a must or you will die quickly. You also have a lot of versatility with this spec as well giving you several roots and keeping you on the target with ease. I would play what feels most comfortable though to you.

Malice affects every single yellow damage we do. Everything we do besides something that says "Weapon Damage" is affected by Malice. This is a must talent. That being said, to the OP, yes you can do the rotation your way but here is your mistake and it could be VERY costly. using Annihilate BEFORE Rupture could be a sever loss in DPS and DoT's/Heals because of the talent Pulverize. Annihilate has a 66% chance to finish the cooldown of Rupture doing 2 things. First is keeping your DoT's from Rupture on your target, and second when Rupture finishes its now ready to use again, instead of being down for another 9 seconds. Your goal should be to pull rupture off of CD as much as possible, and this is how you do it. You can also throw in a Vicious Slash as a Rage Dump, if nothing else is ready because that has a 33.33% chance to refresh it as well, along with hitting for a fair amount(as high as 2k crit). So look at it like this with Enraged Charge: Charge(4 Rage total 4)->Deadly Saber mid air(-3 Rage total 1)->Battering Assault(+6 Rage total 7), Rupture(-2 Rage total 5)->Annihilate +1 Rage, and you will have proc'd another rage from the talent Empowerment(which is why its so important) which would then allow you to rupture again. Without Enraged Charge: Charge(3 Rage 3 total)->Deadly Saber mid air(-3 Rage 0 total)->Battering Assault(+6 Rage 6 total)->Annihilate(-5 Rage +1 Rage(with talent) 2 total)-> Rupture(-2 Rage 0 total). With the first option you will have DoT's up pretty much at all times. The second way puts you at missing out on DoT's for up to 9 seconds. Additionally, you are losing out on 6 more seconds of doing damage to your target and healing to yourself which could be the difference between a win or a loss in a 1 on 2, which happens a lot. So to summarize: 2/2 Enraged Charge is a must, this is more important then having 2/2 in Phantom or Ferocity. Ferocity is beneficial for 1 WZ, and thats Huttball, plus Berserk is WAY more powerful in Annihilation spec then Predation. Predation is VERY circumstantial. If you are using Predation as an Annihilation spec'd Marauder then you are playing wrong to begin with. And while Phantom is good, I prefer Enraged Charge AND Seeping Wound for the slow. No sense in wasting rage on Crippling Slash when 30% is more then enough of a slow to keep you on your target. If you MUST have Ferocity or Phantom, its better to take the points from Seeping Wound then it is to take them from Enraged Charge.

One of the posters below was correct. I used berserk during the entire raid, except for that fight....I would have thought it would have been obvious for anyone who has actually done the fight. This was also on hard mode too, so I would have been obliterated if I couldnt do damage for 1 minute. And as far as the comment of not being able to use berserk to allow for the guarantee'd crits on that fight? I am simply replying to the person who said that this fight is the "true DPS comparison". So for him, he beat a Carnage Marauder by 20 seconds. We dont know that other persons gear or anything, or their feel for the Carnage rotation. The only true test is a damage meter. The next best thing is to do both spec's yourself, in consecutive weeks like I did and see what happens. For me, Carnage came out on top easily, but thats not to say that Annihilation wasn't better for all the other fights in that Operation. But on that fight, 1v1, no help no interference, Carnage>Annihilation. For me anyway. Here are my Stats in my PvE set with full raid buffs: STR: 1667 MH Damage: 707-858 OH Damage: 199-299 Bonus Damage: 405 Critical Chance: 34.74 Critical Multiplier: 63.40

I love this...it's so adorable when someone says this. "Just run in and start beating on someone" lol. Ok, so here it is. Im a Marauder, your a....let's say Sorcerer. You see me running at you, Lightsabers blazing. Your going to just stand there, and let me run at you and start blasting you with my lightsabers? Hell no your not. Your going to put a DoT on me, then stun me, then start DPSing the hell out of me, all the while your running further away from me. Now for some reason you decided to stop kiting me, and I get to you, bam knocknack, but ALAS! I have charge waiting for you! Charge! Oh wait...gotta wait 3 seconds since they decided to take the talent thats brilliant for PvP that adds a stun to their knockback. Ok, 3 seconds up BAM Charge! HAHA I'm on you now sucker! Wait...Whats this square on the middle of my screen that says Click here to return to the Starting Area? That's right...im already dead. Because I decided to not use the ONE thing designed to put me within striking distance to my enemy because I know that as soon as I use it, im going to get knocked back. That is such an illogical way of dealing with knockbacks. You act like we are running up to Snipers everytime and that they are going to remain in one spot the entire time. This isn't PvE. They will not come to us. These are people, and if I see a Marauder coming at me? Im running. But not before I lay some DoT's on him and a stun, along with as much damage as I can before he finally reaches me. Some people really need to get a clue about this situation. It's not that simple. It really isnt. the ONLY spec that can somewhat deal with this situation is Carnage because of the roots they have. And as far as the Carnage vs Annihilation council boss comparison? I went last night as Annihilation to help with berserk heals, and when we made it to that fight I kind of got excited because I knew how fast I killed the same guy with Carnage spec. With a pretty tight rotation, I was about 15 seconds slower as Annihilation spec then I was with Carnage. Im not saying thats the end off be all of comparisons but I have a pretty good grasp on both specs. I was the second person done as Carnage last week behind a Sniper. I was 4th this week behind that same Sniper, and Arsenal BH and a Inquisitor. All of who raided the previous week.

I wouldn't personally. This spec can be very rage starved especially once you get 3 stacks of Annihilate, using 4 rage every 7.5 seconds along with keeping your bleeds up at all times. Also I would tweak your spec a little. A lot of people put 2/2 into Enraged Charge, second tier 3 from the left in Carnage tree, so that they can get a full rotation off after one charge, meaning: Force Charge, while in the air use Deadly Saber, Battering Assault, Rupture then Annihilate. This would conclude a full rotation for you. If you did not have 2/2 in Enraged Charge you would need to burn an Assault before you could use Annihilate, which isnt the end of the world, but to be able to pop a full rotation on someone/something is very nice to have. I would either take 2 point from Phantom or 2 from Seeping Wound to get 2/2 in Enraged Charge. Also if you aren't at 103% Accuracy I would definitly advise looking into Narrowed Hatred as well. Just my 2 cents, hope this info helps you a little.

I think a lot of you are missing the main point of all this. Here is my point exactly, and if any of you have a solution to this, I am all ears. Lets say you are in a Huttball match, and you're on the main level, along the side when you happen to notice the ball carrier is right there waiting for the fire to subside. You think, now is my chance to stop him, so that my team has a chance to stay in this match. Now let's stop and think. What can each and every class do in this situation. Juggernaut- Force Leap->Push = win. He's not scoring. Powertech- Grapple. Win. Not scoring. Mercenary- Electro Dart to stun = very needed time for allies to close in, also ranged attacks to damage the target. Sorcerer- Electrocute, Whirlwind. Take your pick, both = win here. Assassin- Force Pull and Creeping Terror. One obviously pulls you to your location, the other offers a 2 second stun. 2 seconds is 2 seconds, and if timed right could catch them in flames. Operative- As I said before, this class could use some love in this aspect too, but they can at least deal some pretty decent damage with Orbital Strike, along with Corrosive Grenade. Sniper- First and foremost as hard as they hit, they could kill the target before the flames disperse. If not, they can use Leg shot for a 5 second stun. Then there is us, Marauders. We win right? We can just use Force Leap and get right on them for an easymode win. Well, here is why my idea would be useful. Most every other class has something in their arsenal to deal with this situation. What happens here is we get knocked back, off the ledge again removing us COMPLETELY from this equation. We are non factors at this point. We let our team down. So what are we supposed to do here? Run at them to save our charge? Good luck on that, got a long way to go. Charge up to them and try to position ourselves with out back to a pole or behind them? Maybe you guys play with some chumps, but on my server, people with KB's are smart. They use it on me the moment im half way to them. I dont even land and im knocked back already. The truth is, we are the ONLY class who cannot slow down, stun, pull, push or do any kind of damage at ALL because we don't have an ability that can reach that person other then Force Leap, which is quickly negated by Knockback. I know some of you are saying how rare is this instance...when would that happen? To me? ALL the time. It's the main reason I want the immunity to begin with. I want to be helpful in this situation, not completely useless like we are now. I don't want this so I can jump in and rage someone's face. it would be nice, but it's not why I would like it. The other solution? Allow use of the MGGS in Huttball and attach locations along the edges of all the platforms, to allow another aspect of the game that ALL players can take advantage of. I want the immunity to make us competitive in Huttball, that's it. Give the Huttball Arena MSSG locations and i'd take that instead, with no issues. Or even if I could add to the description of "Hard as Nails" that if you are using Force leap from a raised or lowered spot, the immunity kicks in. If its used on a target that is on the same level as you, then it will not kick in. Something like that works too. Lastly, I did not intend for this thread to be a flame war, but what thread on this website isnt? Some people are here to flame, because that's who they are, They argue for the sake of arguing. I don't pay much attention to them, and the rest of you shouldn't either. They feed off of it. Most of them probably don't even play our class anyway. At any rate, my character name is Jailer and I am on the Canderous Ordo server, which is one of the, if not THE most populated server in the game. I know it is on the east coast, so I play with quite a few high end people, both imperial and republic. There are some seriously good Republic players on this server too. Lots of very intense WZ's with those guys. /end rant

I'm clearly clueless? You're talking as if you know for a fact that Annihilation spec outdamages Carnage when you don't. Nobody does. But i'm clueless. You also didn't see the point I was making with Massacre did you? I was simply saying that if you are going to make a fair comparison, make it between the two 31 point talents, not 1 31 point talent vs the talent we get before level 10. Of course the 31 point talent is going to win there. But the fact that Massacre is, in your words, arguably the best Marauder ability in the game, and your best comparison comes between a 31 point talent and one of the first abilities a Marauder gets is kind of a stretch dont you think? It sounds like you are reaching for a reason to make Annihilation sound better then Carnage and you failed miserably. Yes your 31 point talent does more then my level 5 talent. But, no it does not do more then Massacre. So now that the 2 31 point talents have been decided, what do we have left? Oh thats right, a 4-5k crit Force Scream. Get a clue.

So then you have a DPS Meter then? Because the last time I checked, nobody knows what does more then the other. How is it that similar geared Annihilation spec'd Marauders dont come close to me in overall damage done in any given WZ? How is it that an Annihilation spec Marauder doesnt come close to killing me 1v1? How is it that I'm the only person who can make Carnage what it's supposed to be? You are just in love with the fact that you get healed from that spec and thats it. Your comparing the 31 point talent to Force Scream, and talent every Marauder spec gets and your making it sound like its a fair one? Compare Annihilate to Massacre, which is what you should be doing and you will see that Massacre is WAY better in every way other then top end damage. But by the time you can do 2 Annihilates, I can do 15 Massacres. Not even close. Force Scream is just the icing on the cake. And you say it takes it to be set up? Really? Ataru Form strikes happen when they happen, which is ALOT, and you use Gore when its ready, always. There is no set up. With this spec, Blood Frenzy is almost always active. Its extremely rare that I force scream and BF wasn't active. So rare that I dont even check anymore. Until you can prove that one is definitively better then the other, please keep that to yourself, because its simply not possible to find out.

Maybe you should read it. I will put it here word for word: Blood Frenzy- Hits from Ataru form grant Blood Frenzy for 6 seconds. When Blood Frenzy ends, you gain 1 rage. This can only occur once every 6 seconds. So back to what I said. Any attack can cause Blood Frenzy to proc. How is that wrong? Every attack is capable of proc'ing an Ataru Form strike is it not? Or do I need to type out the tooltip for Ataru form as well?

^ This. That's exactly the point of implementing this. Makes everyone better.