Thanks! I just calculated the upper and lower values to the side using the formulas and coefficients. Then I calculated crit as such: average healing+average healing * crit * surge, adding in values like +30% surge for Inf, Inj, and RN. Same results, but knowing that the tooltips are wrong was the key.

Yeah, I'm not willing to theorycraft that far out. The number of TA's is too variable, to start, and theorycrafting a fixed rotation is always suspect for healing given that incoming damage is also variable. Also, it's not like we actually renew KP exactly at 18s or any other time. ******************* On a side note, I'm trying to make my spreadsheet more valuable by having the values adjust for crit/surge and +healing. The crit part is easy, but I'm having a hard time figuring out how +healing works. For example: KI's formula is (LvlRankHealAmnt * 0.116 + HealingPower * 2.72) - (LvlRankHealAmnt * 0.156 + HealingPower * 2.72). HealingPower is obvious. LvLRankHealAmnt is bugging me. I was able to derive a value (7085) by using the known lower value of Injection at 464 power. (2209/1.06-464*2.72)/0.116. I'm dividing by 1.06 because of the 6% extra healing from talents (3% and 3%). 7085 as LvlRankHealAmnt works perfectly for Injection and Infusion. When I try using 7085 for Surgical Probe, Kolto Probe, or RN, though, the numbers don't work. I assume it's because of the other talents (and gear) that impact those abilities. Surgical Probe, for example, has +27% healing. (2209/1.27-464*2.72)/0.116 doesn't work either.

I might not state it explicitly, but I threw in an extra injection. I understand the point of using KP more is to give more energy for other abilities--but not Infusion--so I added that in. If you switch the Injection with DS, it becomes very efficient with low healing. I'll add in another row for that comparison.

I didn't get quite that ambitious, but I did tack an RN and KP on to the front of the rotation. I made a couple assumptions: DS is regenning 4 extra energy over a full channel, I'm wearing two-piece PvE, and the improved talent reduces the cost of RN by 4--I can't remember if it's 4 or 6. Also, I assumed that the theoretical healer is smart enough to use his filler, be it DS or an extra Injection, at the right time for energy levels. At the end of the first cycle (RN, KP, IJ-SP x3 subbing either KP or Inf in and adding a filler), you've spent 14.x seconds. The rotation using infusion has 83 energy and the one with SP has 74 energy. In other words, none of these rotations allow for using RN on CD while maintaining KP, long-term.

Oh, I don't keep KP on 4 targets all the time. I mentioned it as a possibility because I've been told by other operatives that it's the only right way to heal. I'm sorry if that's what I said. I keep RN up almost all the time, and KP on two targets. Single-target, with my gear, RN has 104 HPS, 1036 HPCT. Post-patch it'll be 285 HPS and 1139 HPCT. SP has 626 HPS/HPCT, and KP 70/843 or 140/1686 if you already have it up on the target. So yes, it's probably fair to say it'll be used frequently when energy allows since it'll be our strongest heal on two or more targets.

Ok, my own theorycraft indicates I may be partially wrong. I created a spreadsheet to figure out the HPS and HPE and such of the different rotations before and after the patch. Unfortunately, I don't know how to post a table here and I don't feel like uploading a picture of it, so I'll give the summarized results. I'm working around a 11.x second rotation, in between RN and KP. Each rotation is between 9 and 10 seconds before adding a "filler" spell to equalize the times. The first rotation (1.1.5) is IJ-SP, 3x, plus half a DS. The second uses SP twice to spend the third TA, and then continues with IJ-SP, including an extra Injection. The third switches Inf in for SP and includes a talented (1.2) DS. All of them ended up taking around 11.3 seconds and costing 70 (#3) or 75 (#1,2) energy, with ~68 regenned. #1 healed for 10139, #2 10831, and #3 10079. #2 had the best healing, and #3 was the most efficient since it started out costing 70 energy and regenned 68 if DS doesn't proc at all. The other two come up 7 or 8 energy short. Thanks, RuQu. Link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ai9JhnG0ehXzdHBaWThyTlB6RHBXUWpUT2d6MWNwTkE#gid=0 In case there's any confusion, I describe them here in a different order than they appear on my spreadsheet.

I think the assumption is that we're looking at a 10s ish rotation window, between RN/KP casts. The rotations I've seen discussed wouldn't be viable while maintaining KP on more than two targets (yourself and tank).

I agree with this. I like the changes I've seen to operatives in that they make TA a lot less clunky. I don't have a merc healer (dps atm), but the changes to SCC make me scratch my head. They're nerfing the most interesting parts of the spec. If they think mercs are OP, adjust a coefficient or something.

I think what some people miss when they try to argue against alacrity and/or infusion is that you can fill in the holes with DS for a few hundred more healing and some more energy. If you want to say "Inf-SP-Inj-SP-Inj-SP-Inf-SP... is not sustainable," then I'll submit to you that KI-SP... is not sustainable either. I'll start bleeding energy after about the third pair. Stop arguing against faster casts based on spammed rotations and start thinking about what can be done with the time you saved. And this isn't even a matter of checking whether Alacrity + DS filler is better than Crit. Infusion is clearly a superior ability. I'd like to see it become something more interesting but you work with what you have.

Some of us healers like PvP and want it to be balanced.

By switching it in for Injection when procs allow, as discussed above. It's more efficient. Of course, if you're keeping KP on 4 targets plus RN, you won't have the resources to do a heck of a lot more than that in any case. That's an aoe-intensive healing situation, though, and I can't think of that many fights that I'll be using RN on every CD. I currently almost do that, just to have an additional hot on my whole team at all times. With a 6s duration, though, I'll be using it reactively since it would be a waste to just cast it on CD. Try to remember, I'm coming from a perspective of already using RN aggressively since part of my job is to keep it on the melee all the time while a sorc heals ranged. From where I'm sitting, these changes will potentially make me use it less.

I think you're overestimating the cost of RN. I can't remember how much the cost will be reduced by talents--either 4 or 6 energy--but with the PvE two-piece that's 18-20 energy, hardly a significant drain. That's like casting KP, except you'll have to wait an extra half-second for regen. Even if you forgo the PvE set in favor of whatever the next tier gives, it's not going to be the hugely expensive spell it is now. There's a large difference between 30 and 24 energy, as anyone who rolls with the PvE 2-piece can tell you.

In PvP, I will certainly use them on SP. I could be wrong, too, but I think my Infusion use will go up from a few times in a run to every fight.

Yes, exactly, and DS would be necessary. I already have to use it in my rotation because of alacrity and frequent RN use, as I said in another post. Another TA will also be helpful for when you hit the enrage timer and you need to burst some healing for a bit. I don't disagree that Infusion needs something to make it more than a slightly different heal. Refreshing HoT durations or increasing healing received or something would be nice, even if it came at a slight cost to raw healing.

Erm... no. I'll be restricted by TA gain. I wouldn't cast Infusion + SP more than once because I would blow all my TA. I'd follow up with KI+SP until I hit three TA again. Infusion-> Injection is and would be an emergency rotation used when Adrenaline probe is up. Edit in Re Edit. I already use RN almost every CD. In Ops, I heal the melee group and the Sorc heals the ranged group. I just keep RN and KP running on the melee, using DS if I mess up... which will be faster now. Energy management will actually be significantly easier now with the reduced cost to RN.

I was thinking the same thing. "I didn't have time to dps much" and "interrupts and stuns and such were harder to work in" sounds exactly like normal working conditions to me... especially since all my limited utility requires melee range. Mercs don't even get an interrupt. If you have to think ahead when you're healing and aoe takes a few GCD's to pull off safely, then it sounds like Bioware did a decent job of bringing you in-line with the other healers... especially since it sounds like the most significant change was the bug fix.

Fair enough. But with RN healing in 6 seconds and having mobility, it will be useful. It's already the best heal for the dropping phase of Soa, of course. In other situations, usually I'm only using an aoe heal when multiple people in the same area got hit. First two bosses in EV, (missile barrage and lava knockback) for example. This change will make our healing worthwhile, instead of a small buff that lingers after the sorc gets done healing everyone up. It helps if your group is more or less split evenly between melee and ranged, as ours is.

What Shroudveil said, basically. And as I pointed out before, Infusion is actually more efficient than Injection. With only two TA's, you wouldn't want to use Infusion because you need to hold one for the buff and the other is for SP. With another stack, it's very reasonable to use infusion+SP when you have three TA. I'd actually go so far as to say you'd be dumb to do anything else. Infusion + Injection at two TA will work at certain energy levels.

Quality of life is important. A longer duration makes it easier to maintain TA between fights and will be especially helpful in PvP, when sometimes SP is the only heal you can use. Important change. Although I agree that RN has some underlying issues and will continue to be extremely weak compared to the Sorc heal, this is a great change. With the 2-piece it will be very forgiving to use. The faster healing is a great change. False. Increasing the limit on TA allows for Infusion use, which is significantly more efficient and has something like 16% better throughput than Injection before the 4-piece PvE bonus. Additionally, another TA is beneficial for emergencies and PvP in general. See my first response. You're underselling DS. It already has better HPS (not HPCT) than KP, even without counting 24% bonus crit. It will have a channel time of 2.1s talented, or around 1.7-1.9s with gear. I'm not a fan of being forced to spec into it, but this is a good change. QQ. Go look at the rest of the patch notes and notice how many people got nerfs to crit (a lot of them). It's a trend. These are excellent changes. They don't quite get the class to where I want it to be, but it's a great start. We're seeing some of the main problems get fixed: RN is too expensive and TA is clunky. We'll still have issues (mainly utility, a problem our dps brothers share) but these changes are a move in the right direction.

Dude, you're comparing an operative with all his cooldowns attacking from stealth to a sorc with none of his. Give me a break. Stop telling this story where the operative can use his stun breaker but the sage can't. No one cares. It's easy to escape as a sage, end of story. Sprint has a 30s CD and less with talents. The operative has no way to close the gap if you get outside of 10 yards.

What it amounts to is DS is used whenever you would normally be standing around doing nothing. That's not compelling or interesting. Typically, in single-target healing you're going to be rotating KI+SP, and adding a DS in occasionally as you get more haste because you have to wait for energy to tick. Also, it's useful when you get sloppy. Mainly, I actually cast it most when the tank is at full health because KP+RN+DS requires fewer button clicks--too bad they're killing that in 1.2. The only other time I use DS is to draw interrupts from bad players in PvP. Step back a minute, and consider that: the only time you're using it is when you can't--for strategic reasons--use anything else. Across the board, you'd use it the same way and with the same frequency without any talents. The only difference is gaining a minor boost to regen that you may or may not notice. Marauders, by contrast, invest 1 point in a talent to make their next three melee attacks (ie, autoattack, like DS) cause the target to bleed. Bleeds heal you and have other synergies in a normal annihilation build. Powertechs can spend one or two points to cause their autoattack to be a snare. The mercenary autoattack builds up a resource that buffs them and can be used to have other interesting effects. Sorcs don't have to autoattack but assassins can proc their weapon charge for a variety of benefits. Again, I don't mind spending four points in an ability, but I do mind not getting results. Heck, assassins "have" to spend five points in wither, but you don't hear them complaining because it's awesome by the time they're done. It deals large damage, debuffs the target (damage and movement) and gives a stack of harnessed darkness. Madness sorcs "have" to spend 10 points in force lightning (increased damage and crit, resist interrupts, return force, proc instacast, remove CD). You don't see them complaining, because it started out great and became awesome. Same thing with mercs and tracer missile. Same thing with static shield: it started out as a spell you already wanted to use in a lot of situations that the other healers would kill for, and ended as an efficient heal with the best single-target HPCT in the game. Diagnostic Scan does not deliver. You spend points to increase the crit chance and make it return energy. You HAVE to spend at least two of those points just to progress in the tree (and the first two are essentially wasted without the second two)--compared to our sorc that has the option to skip some of the talents in Force Lightning or Static Shield or our Assassin that can opt for Death Field over Wither. And what do you get? A spell that you still only use when you have to. It remains a filler spell in operations that gets canceled halfway through. You may see it that way, but that's not how I saw it coming late to the thread. My assumption was that all arenas of level 50 healing were pertinent. Three months ago you might have gotten away with assuming we were talking about leveling builds, but people are 50 now. I have no idea why PvP would be out of bounds in your mind since a lot of us mostly only do that. If you meant that DS is useful in a specific setting, you should have specified that. You brought up barrier in the first place so I think comparing the two spell's utility in PvP, specced and unspecced, is completely relevant. Honestly, I thought you were trolling for the first few pages.

@Ryemfoh The difference between operatives spending 4 points on DS and sorcs spending 4 points on static shield is that we have to spend 4 points to make it worth using--sometimes. Static shield is useful even without talent points but is very inefficient if overused. Talent points make it worth using every time the debuff wears off. If I'm spending 4 talent points on something it better turn out awesome. Static shield delivers, DS does not. End of story. I'd trade DS and kolto infusion for static shield. Oh, and talking about end-game content only is not moving the goalposts. We assumed we were all talking about end-game content because it's the only content that is relevant to us and/or challenging. You're being disingenuous if you're trying to tell me you thought we were talking about healing low-level stuff.

What, every level 50 operative on the server queued together? Such a load of baloney. I play an operative, and if I see more than two operatives in a game 2/3 are healers. That's been true for the life of the game, even back before the first biochem nerf when no one had gear and operatives could blow people up. Besides which, operatives can't stunlock [evenly geared] people to death and never could.

So? Who cares? I never bother making anything to sell--or, for that matter, doing anything to make money--and I have three million credits and nothing to spend them on. I guess if you just enjoy making and selling stuff, sure, but being able to make money off cybertech is the next best thing to worthless, imo.

Unless they change it in 1.2, you can't get any schematics from REing mods from raid gear. Mods have to be removed to RE them.