I'm objecting to it being used at all because it's not true. I only mentioned real-world usage in response to someone using the real military as a justification--so if you don't like the argument, take it up with them. I strenuously object to using a lie as a justification. If you want to say that it's common in fictional settings, fine... although I think it's pretty inconsistent of you to say that the real world doesn't matter but other sf settings do. If you want me to restrict my arguments to SW, then stop trying to use other fictional settings as a justification.

Baloney. I spent five years in and never heard of such a thing. When I saw this thread, I even asked some friends from different services what you call a female officer. The answer is "ma'am." You call a female officer "sir" and you can expect to get corrected. As great as the first few seasons of BSG were, and as great as the Honor Harrington books are, those are fiction. They do not represent the actual customs and courtesies used the the US military. Try a google search of "what are female officers called" or some such if you don't believe me. Regardless, stop spouting nonsense you saw on TV as fact.

I did say the Republic has a lot of sexism in it, didn't I? Regardless of how influential Alderaan is, it can still be seen as backward politically or socially. Heck, the US is influential, but I'd say a lot of other nations view us as backward. Oh, you mean kinda like men in the Empire who can't use the force or aren't in the military? Male or female, the issue is how much power you have. You can't make an argument that it's worse for women in the Sith empire--regardless of gender, you're basically a slave if you don't have personal power.

/shrug. I'm of the opinion that the ultimate reason for homogeneous titles is to save a buttload of money on voice acting and the rest is justification. If you don't want to go off-topic to discuss the other issues, I'll leave it at that. Re: others. I know a lot of people in this forum have made the claim that female officers in the US military go by "sir" sometimes. I believe, however, that impression comes from television and books. The way the media portrays the military is comically far from the truth. I've played a consular as far as Alderaan. I don't think using Alderaan as an example of how women are viewed in the Republic/Empire is that appropriate. At least on my Imperial toons, I seem to remember Alderaan's political system being regarded as backward and archaic. I didn't really get this idea that the Empire views women as being less valuable. With the exception of the guy I electrocuted on Quesh, I don't remember many non-companions even commenting on my gender (except when it was relevant to, say, using seduction as an option). Heck, the guy on Quesh didn't even comment on my agent's gender (he only does that if you say you choose the "Why should I care" option). I don't remember anyone saying anything negative about Zash being a woman. Overall I found the Empire to be extremely egalitarian as long as you're human, and preferably a force-user. I've only played female toons to any great extent on the Imperial side, so maybe males get a different perspective. In the Republic, though, holy cow, there's some sexism going on. Wow. I have a 30ish male trooper and 30ish female consular, and yeah. I really don't like that pretentious womanizer.

The male equivalent is "gentleman." It's an entirely different meaning to the word--grammar works like that. You don't get to mix definitions to suit, contrary to the common trend in internet debate. The men got their titles the same way, almost universally. Yes, somewhere down the line was a warrior who helped a king do something or was just friends with the right people, but the vast majority of lords inherited their titles and were called "lord" because of higher birth, not respect. I don't claim the titles are the same because I don't believe men and women are the same. Out of respect, I would acknowledge a woman is, in fact, a woman, rather than using a male title on her. I don't think pretending men and women are all the same does anything for women. I definitely don't think insisting we view these titles through a 15th-century patriarchical lens--as you're doing--is a good thing.

Actually, "Lord" means "male noble" and "Lady" means "female noble," if we're talking about the title. The daughters of a noble family would be called "ladies" whether single or married, and if you want to refer to a dictionary I think you'll find that the title "Lady" does include authority and power. I found the comment "lady implies ability to breed" incredibly sexist (that's an inference, not an implication). You're both importing feudal-era expectations of station and duty into the words. As for female officers in the US military being called "sir": I've never heard of it happening, and I just got out a few months ago. In the context of swtor I think it comes down to laziness. If they call everyone "Lord" or "Sir" or "Jedi" or "Sith" then they don't have to record the same lines once for each gender. I really don't get this idea of using male titles for everyone is somehow better for women. Yeah, let's just go with this concept that addressing women as women belittles them. Clearly, the only way to give them equality is to address them as men. /sarcasm

Not to anyone who's actually been in the military... that's more of a writing issue though. As a former marine, I was really looking forward to the trooper story. Huge disappointment so far, at the end of act 1. My favorite voices are femagent and male bh for PC's. Probably Darth Jadus for NPCs. I loved Jennifer Hale for Shepard, but I didn't want to feel like I was playing Shepard in swtor. Given my dislike for the trooper story so far, that might have been a mistake. It might have been fun roleplaying shepard as a republic commando.

The commando ability you referred to is a stun, "smartarse." Nobody cares about an ability snipers can use on each other--not in the context of this thread.

Pretty sure I said "they're not immune to stuns."

Snipers in cover are immune to interrupts. They're not immune to stuns, though. Cover can bite you in the butt when you're up on a rampart and think you're immune to charge. Then a tankassin stuns you and pulls you down and you're like "oh crap." Also, I've seen snipers up there thinking "I'm immune to force leap, I don't have to worry about letting players platform off me" and then they get stunned and leapt to.

You could just be bad at it, even though you're clearly awesome in your own mind. It ever occur to you that if two higher-level and more experienced healers in your same class are telling you you're wrong in thinking operatives are flimsy pvp healers, that you might actually be wrong? Probably not. You obviously think you've learned everything there is to know about operative healing at the lofty level of 40. You claim to kill operative healers 1v1 all the time... you should play that class instead. You'll have an easier time maintaining your sense of superiority, and maybe stop adding to the general whininess of these forums.

I'm a level 50 operative healer. Operatives have their problems--just look at the healing forum and you'll see plenty of discussion on that--but we're solid PvP healers. There is a lot more to being a good operative healer than "target the guy with the lowest health and hit my heal button." Are you using shiv to gain TA when you're being attacked? Are you vanishing early when focused, then relocating? Do you drop orbital bombardment on yourself to keep melee off? Do you keep your HoTs on multiple people for extra TA procs? If you think all there is to operative healing is spamming Kolto Injection or Underworld Mediciine or whatever it's called for you is all you need to know, you're wrong. If you ever use your quick 1.5s cast heal that requires TA in PvP, you're doing it wrong.

The flaw in your argument is that we're not asking whose army will win. The implicit condition is that it's a "fair" fight, ie, one doesn't get to bring in extra resources other than their blade and abilities. If we saw this as a duel in-game between two players, no one would say "Satele won that 1v1 fight." They might say, though, that Malgus was just getting into position to finish Satele before a trooper stunned him and allowed Satele to get distance and chain several abilities together to finish it. Again, talking in terms of players, if Satele started bragging about how she owned Malgus, most people would just ignore her because of the interference. Malgus would tell her that if she thought she could do it again without help, she's welcome to try. In time-honored MMO tradtion, Satele would say "lol I don't have to prove anything I already beat you scrub." I'm translating, but does anyone really doubt that Malgus would be eager and willing to have a rematch and Satele would avoid one like her life depended on it... because it does? Malgus helps other people achieve "oneness with the force" all the time.

Except, the guy you quoted doesn't seem to know anything about how the abilities he mentioned worked, as I showed in my reply to him. That, and he's comparing a 31-31-31 operative to the assassin. Concealment operatives don't get any of the CD reductions he listed--that takes deep lethality--and to heal for 5k during a 4s stun he'd have to be a full healing spec popping an adrenal and a relic. I'm full healing spec and I only heal for that much when the stars align. Oh yeah, and the best part is the Deception spec *can* pick up the reduced duration on Force Shroud. It's actually a pretty decent option for 7 points, with no "bad" prereqs to get there. If your argument is based on what you quoted, you have no argument or you're just trolling.

Um... what? Do you have any idea how evasion works? You only dodge autoattacks with it. How is that better than an ability that makes you immune to everything BUT autoattacks? You can avoid thousands of points of damage in that time period. The abilities aren't even worth comparing except that both remove all dots and are basically required if you want to stealth in combat. Force shroud works better for that, too, since it prevents new dots whereas evasion doesn't. /shrug. It's a weak CD on a short timer. Over time, yes, it looks better, but when you're getting focused, 2k health is nothing. There's a lot of value in having a much stronger CD for when you really need it rather than a speedbump every few fights. For reference, the sorc bubble heals for 25% more (with no healing talents) and can be cast on yourself more than 3x as often. Flashbang is much harder to use than the knockback and is often less valuable. Additionally, you can use it twice as often. In-combat heals are the next best thing to a joke--they're only useful for saving yourself from a dot in that brief period before you leave combat again. That's assuming you don't have a healer. 10% more armor? I bet a lot of operatives would trade that in a heartbeat for a sprint, a ranged stun (!), and another in-combat CC like y'all get. You seem to really be harping on this 1v1. I'm starting to wonder exactly what you do in WZs that make you concerned about this issue. I've PvPed a fair bit, and assassin medals are pretty rare if you're not going off trying to pick solo fights. If you're doing that, you're bad. The fact of the matter is that most combat happens in groups of 2-4, and taunts are very valuable in that setting--and weak in-combat healing is not. A sprint is very valuable in every warzone, as it allows you to get to doors to cap faster, run through fires with the ball, and assist another node more quickly. Knockbacks can kill people or cripple a ball carrier in huttball. You know, I've been over to the assassin forums, and a lot of people there seem to think infiltration is good and tank is overrated. I wonder if you're doing something wrong.

As a healer, I'm a lot more worried about having a dps shadow on me than I am an operative. Operative burst is overrated, and they just don't have the tools to pressure a healer and stay on target like an assassin has. As for burst, yes, operatives can burst for 5k... from stealth. I've been hit by shadows outside of stealth for the same. Mercs can do the same, and I've never seen it but I understand Juggernauts and Pyrotechs can as well. Utility: Assassins: Base: Force Shroud (3s of immunity to tech/force attacks, talented up to 5s on a 1m/45s CD) Deflection (+50% defense for 12 seconds) Vanish (3/2 minute cooldown) Sprint (+150% speed for 2s on a 30s/20s talented CD) Knockback (PBAOE on a 30s CD) Stun (4s, 30y range, 1m/50s CD) Spike (2s knockdown on a 30s CD, only from stealth) Taunt, AOE Taunt (30% less damage to allies) Sleep (10y range, 75% of resolve bar) Talents: Force Pull Low Slash (4s mez on a 15s CD, single target) Operatives: Base: Evasion (+100% chance to dodge for 2s, 1m/45s CD) Shield Probe (Absorb ~2000 damage, 45s/30s CD) Vanish (3/2 minute CD) Flashbang (targeted AOE 8s mez, must be facing target, 10y range, 1m CD) Stun (4s, 10y range, 1m/45s CD) Sleep (10y range, fills resolve bar) Talents: Jarring Strike (2s knockdown, requires stealth, must be behind target) Force Shroud > Shield Probe on a similar CD, and Deflection has pros and cons when compared to Evasion. I would compare Evasion to Force Shroud (both remove dots), except Force Shroud is just so much better it's really not fair.

@HyperThomas: Baloney. It absorbs about 2k. You can look at the healing coefficient and modifier to find this, and it doesn't vary at all. 7085 * .13 + healingpower * 2.59. There's no mystery here and 2k is significantly worse than 3k. If you're facing an operative that can heal for 5k during a 4s stun, then he has points in healing. Since you refuse to compare the dps operative to a hybrid shadow, I don't think comparing the dps shadow to a hybrid operative is remotely relevant.

Without getting into all the details.... you have to ignore some of the "canon." It's not all coherent and it doesn't all fit together even when it's approved by LucasArts. Go with what you like and ignore the rest. I know there's a fair amount that I've seen and just thought "that's stupid" or "that contradicts this" and just decided to ignore it.

Probably,

Given that Malgus already beat her twice, that she's afraid to face him again, and the abilities we know they have, I'd say Malgus will win every time. Canon shows that Malgus becomes invulnerable to all damage at around 9% health, and that the only way to kill him is to knock him off a ledge. This takes two consecutive knockbacks, which require two players since Shan only has one. This is assuming, of course, that she manages to interrupt every instagib lightning cast, which could be rough solo. I mean, if she's in the middle of a cast... there's no /stopcast macros in this game. Come to think of it, I'm not even sure she has an interrupt. I've never seen a raid boss with one. Looks like Malgus wins before Satele even gets him low enough to worry about damage immunity and lightning spam. Also, "Malgus let a trooper get close to him so he's bad" is a pretty poor argument. I couldn't even count the number of Sith and Jedi my operative has killed. Saber jockies aren't all that.

Well, you can tell them that. At least, I did on my agent... might have been part of my class questline, I guess. Their seers said not to kill all the Gormak. They listen.

Just for the record, you are supposed to kill him, and it is possible to do without this trick. I killed him "normally" on my assassin tank.

I'm just saying, lock the doors or something. Insurance won't cover the loss unless you do.

Really? I mean, we're talking about a guy who lets his ship get stolen out from under him. I haven't finished the smuggler storyline, but I hear that's not the last time he does something monumentally stupid. If you say so. Too many republic options are just incredibly smarmy. It's all "For the Republic!" and "It is my honor to serve!" and "It is every soldier's solemn duty to help." That, and they just seem really hypocritical. "The Evil Sith are here to help the Evil Bad House we oppose on principal. We're here because we're good and we just want to help our good friends the Organa's."

Actually, you are. That's fine, but at least be honest about what you're doing. After all, the corollary to "Screenshots or it didn't happen" is "clearly photoshopped." Ah, yes, the old "people who disagree with me are stupid" observation. How refreshing.