So a "punishment" of having to play with quitters is such a harsh "punishment" it will cause people to quit? hmmmmmmm Yet you leave them to ruin pvp for normal players? I do not understand. I think the quitters are all so elite that a seperate queue for them will become an elite pool of players. L......O.......L

This is because of the quitter epidemic. When you go up 1-0, the other team has a player quit and that causes more to quit, then they go down 2-0 etc. It takes a little time to acclimate to your new team so the quitters destroy PvP. So the games that would normally have ended 1-0 become 4-0 and 2-1 matches become 6-1 matches etc I have had matches where we get rolled early and then get our bearings and come back well. i.e. the other team gets a quick plant or goes up 1-0 or even 3-capped at the start of a match.

You do realize that you are posting this in the forums where the people who quit spend all their time. They blame Bioware and all seven members of the team for their cowardice. They do not comprehend that in a random queue it is possible to be on lesser geared/skilled/knowledgable team. They define random as getting the WZ they want with people they want and playing against people they want. Otherwise they use their abilities to determine in 60 seconds the team is bad and quit on them. The solution to the quitter epidemic can be found here. Amazing how your life only pops up when you are losing and when you are winning life can wait 10 minutes.

Quitters don't take responsibility to ruining the fun for others and making this happen. Quitting is by definition selfish behavior. They blame Bioware or their team and could care less about the guy stuck in this situation. I have one AC (unnamed) that when I played in 1-49 (at certain points in leveling) is pretty bad. If the team is not good or new to PvP you can get clobbered. Especially if the team is cowardly farming defensive metals and you try and play the game. Other classes you can get 4 medals in minutes.

I go for the triple if they solo defend, especially if we solo defend. If we solo defend then mid is 7V7. If your team cant hold at 6v7 then you got trouble. You need to force them to defend with 2. The key is when you go, like right after you get some fresh teammates from respawn. You also should only go if you are good 1V1. That is why I only go on certain characters. Bottom line is that you know if you made the right decision. If you cap or force them to bring another defender it worked. If you forced over another defender it just goes from 7v7 to 6v6. The chances of the guy not calling for help AND you losing mid is pretty low if you know what you are doing.

PvP SS I don't care what others think, it is a good fun spec. Generally, the better the team is the better I am. I like it in ranked. It is very underrated defensively. It does not go down that fast, it has a lot of counters. It does not have the objective abilities of other classes, (things like stealth and tanking, pull leap) are great for that but other things like root and AoE stun give it a nice niche.

PvP Perspective Infiltration Shadow The infiltration spec is very underrated because it does single target DPS. I have nothing against AoE damage but it is not as valuable as single target. I don't know what the factor would be but certainly I would prefer 200K single to 250K AoE. People look at the scoreboard too much. The spec has two main problems that can be fixed easily. It runs out of force fast. It is known as a squishy class with little defensive abilities. The timer on force cloak should be lowered. This will solve both problems. The AC will die less, but if focused, will be forced into stealth where it will do little damage. With the Shadow's respite ability ,lowering the cooldown, will simultaneously solve the force management problem. I seriously think the developers need to look at the class rotation and just do the math, if the AC does it's normal rotation twice it will be on empty. (Clar Stike x2, project, force breach) Two abilities, whirling blow and shadow strike (without buff) are not usable because of the resource limitation, The force cloak ability should also stop all dots. Currently, to use force cloak and not immediately reappear, you need to hit force cloak, then resilience to remove dots that make you reappear and then force speed so an AoE does not make you reappear. You need to burn three cool downs. The only other solution is to make it so that DoTs do not bring you back in combat or blow stealth. You would also need 2-3 seconds of increased stealth because everyone sees you when you are within 4 meters and that is where you normally are when you use this ability. (melee class) The other melee dps has undying rage & a force camo that is on a 30 second cooldown. They don't have the ability to stay in stealth (I hate comparing classes because there is so much more left out) but from a strictly combat perspective, as a defensive ability force cloak is barely usable: the cooldown is three minutes in WZ's where the average duration is 12 minutes need to burn two other cooldowns to work bug causing you to stay in combat at least 50% of the time The Shadows Respite ability should be moved up in the tree if the timer is lowered. Both balance and KC have other force management abilities that should not be combined with this one. I agree, it is a great 1V1 spec. It also has utility. However, most of PvP is team combat and that's why I say what I said above. Apart from combat we have stealth which is very usefull in PvP. The Mezz is great. We have three CC abilities. We have force speed which is usefull, a taunt : ), and a knockback. I think we are balanced by not having any usefull AoE abilities and 0 abilities greater then 4 meters. We have no pull,push or leap. We are a single burst target class with stealth, but we need more resouce (force) management and more escape ability.

I can not stand 1-49. It's for practice and experimenting. You have people in there without CC breakers, You have people missing core abilities. It's just silly. People don't take it seriously, I have seen many huttball games where the ball sits at mid for 45 seconds with people standing right there fighting, It's really silly. People generally have within 10% the same HP total as other players but other than that it's chaos with no redeeming value. It's practice, That is some fuzzy math. No one averages 60 comms a match. You should figure winning percentage of 50%

No, it's quitting on your other 6 teammates and forcing someone else to take your spot in a hutball game that you are down 2-0. "Projecting" is what the quitter does who blames all his seven teammates. What you are doing is just demonstrating an inability to deal with losing. This is why you quitters need your own queue. The non-quitters will play with the occasional new player. We understand that in a random queue sometimes you will get someone who is new to PvP. Sometimes the other team will as well. Yes, this will make it harder to win. We deal with it and do not quit so someone else has to deal with it.

That is the longest sentence I have ever seen. One comma is all you gave us. I tried twice but can not see your point.

Marauder, like infiltration assassin, is a melee dps class. They are supposed to be, by definition, squishy. Having an ability to vanish is not stupid. If the Marauder or Infiltration Assassin is on a healer and someone on the healers team focuses on him, just vanish, if he is in a melee mosh pit and someone is on him, just vanish. It does not have to be when you are almost dead. The 5 seconds is enough time that guy you vanished from will not sit around and wait for you to reappear, he will focus on someone else. The Marauder gets this ability every 30 seconds. The Infiltration shadow gets this ability every three minutes. In PvP this is a huge disparity. In PvE the shadow ability has other advantages.Undying rage is an extra ability apart from the two defensive cooldowns they each have in addition to cloak. This is huge boon to the Marauder uptime which increases his overall dps. This ability every 30 seconds and Undying rage means you are pretty good defensively unless your healer hates you.

That was kind of my point. They should lower the force cloak cool down, it would be a huge book to those trees. Increase survivability and increase force regeneration which would be a dps boost.

Certainly should not be punished. Maybe they will get a replacement, maybe they won't, what do you care? Maybe your queue will pop when you are solo guarding a node or at key moment when you leave that will cause a loss, who cares, you should do what you want and not be punished for it. Screw your team.

Marauder is a melee DPS class so you should be comparing this to the infiltration and balance shadow. (and/or operative) If people say it's to counter sniper then how are infiltration and balance supposed to counter them? Force speed I think is a longer cool down than force leap. I think they each get a cc break and the marauder gets 2 defensive + undying rage and the shadow (DPS) gets 2. Rebuke http://www.torhead.com/ability/eiFgIOA/rebuke Pacify http://www.torhead.com/ability/9XbWeNV/pacify Guarded by the force http://www.torhead.com/ability/Lo8SMo/guarded-by-the-force Deflection http://www.torhead.com/ability/d0UsepC/deflection Resilience http://www.torhead.com/ability/dEsVsc4/resilience The shadow also generally needs to burn his cleanse and force speed to make force cloak work. I think the force cloak cool down is way to high for the dps shadow and I will withhold my comment on my sentinel until it hits 50, currently only 33ish. I am not a big fan of comparing classes, because as an example, the shadow has a Knock back, stun and immobolive and and immobilize from stealth. So it's hard to compare. But defensively the shadow should have a comparable cooldown.

I think you miss the points. If you leave before it starts "sometimes" they get a rep. "Sometimes" they don't. The selfish quitter doesn't care. Blaming Bioware doesn't work, Bioware cant give everyone the queues they want, separate queues for premades, expertise, separate maps( WZ's) etc. The selfish quitter only sees his issue and not the other peoples issue. Quitter 1 quits because he hates huttball and quitter 2 quits if he playing a premade etc etc They can't make all these queues without increasing the wait times tenfold. The mature player also has his favorite maps and maps he doesn't like, the mature player also doesn't like playing with a team of undegeared or players who don't know the game. The mature player deals with it, it's part of an MMO. The quitter quits because, he wants what he wants, oblivious to the random aspect of a random queue. He is essentially employing a three year-old mentality, Not allowing replacements would end pvp. When you have low character people who leave in 60 seconds you will ruin pvp without the mature lpayer who fills in and takes the lumps. It's like saying let babies dirty a diaper in a restaurant and leave it there. The parents or a mature adult will clean the mess left by the baby. Different quitters haven't different breaking points just as different babies cry over different levels of wanting toys. So one guy quits, then another quits because his team is short. etc etc Keep in mind that this will happen on both sides. Essentially 70% of matches will be determined by who has more quitters.

Well, the non-quitter gets stuck with bad players too. We start out matches with 4 players with <14K HP too. We play it out. It is a random queue and sometimes that is what you get. You change your goals. If its Voidstar I try and make a stand at each door. If its huttball and you are playing against an awesome team you try and not let them get six. If you only have fun winning or close matches you will quit a lot and ruin the game for others, not that the quitter cares.

I do this too, when you have fellow non-quitters you can do it. I hate to bump a thread but this solution would work.

There are people who quit when they go down early in matches. They blame their teammates and leave, if you do this you will really increase the hatred towards the quitter.

Hey look, a quitter who blames their team. Never saw that before. Yesterday I entered a match down 2-0 in huttball and we had (with me) 6 people. So, at least three quit, after I joined within 30 seconds 2 more quit (maybe others who filled in, maybe not) and we went down to 4-0 because we were only six players and the opponent was good. We filled up and lost 6-2 but it took 8 minutes for them to score the last two goals once we were full with replacements. 5 people quit because the teammates were bad yet after they left and we were full (4-0) it was a 2-2 (6-2) game. The point: The ones who quit are usually the worst players. They only play with great players they can leach off of.

This is why we need a punishment. Bioware made a game that if people like it, they play, and if they dont like it, they dont play. Bioware did not consider selfish people would play, complain it wasn't fun, and then intentionally ruin the fun for the poor guy who fills the quitters spot. Someone who makes people fill in for their losing matches is a really low character person. They pay to have fun and the fact that they ruin the game for other people who pay is totally lost on the selfish quitter.

1) You think making the quitters play with other quitters is a punishment? 2) You think it is such a severe punishment that it will ruin the game so much that they will stop subscribing? 3) Yet you are in favor of allowing people to quit on normal non-quitters in regular WarZones? I think there is a flaw in your position on this matter. Maybe, and I am going out on a limb here, in the system we have now quitting ruins WZ's for normal people. In fact, this is why quitters always say the entire team (lol) is bads. It can't be one guy who didn't call inc, it is the whole team is bad (lol) otherwise they would see they are being selfish. Not to mention the poor shlub who gets stuck taking their spot who they don't give two shoots about.

It's amazing that you blame Bioware for this. But you blame them for cheaters and every abuse cheaters do. There is only so much effort they can put in to preventing these clowns. Once the problem reaches a point where it is significant enough they will stop it. Until then, if people report it with screen shots and it will be dealt with quickly.

The quality of play in 10-49 is pretty low. I assume it's because a PvE'er is more likely to hop in for kicks. I don't mind the people who have no idea what they are doing or the twinks. 10-49 is like practice and if people want to excel in practice because they are scared of real games it doesn't bother me. If it became so prevalent that I would only lose it would bother me, but currently there are tons of people on both sides who have no idea what they are doing. I have been in huttball games where the ball sits untouched on the podium at mid for a full minute. The daily in 10-49 is play two matches so....

It is important that you understand who these guys are. They are the people in this thread complaining their team is bad. In your match they probably said, "how did they not get mid and left when we took on 3 people at right." They determined that the team was bad and quit. These are the people posting in favor quitters. They are delusional because they can't admit they just hate losing. Whenever you go down early it is because your team played bad, the other team played well or they are just better. If you look above you will see people saying that they can judge a team in 30 seconds. You know what that means? Either in 30 seconds they were able gauge all 7 of their teammates skill (even the ones on the other two nodes or other door or guarding mid when they are by the goal line) or in 30 seconds they are able to see the other team is winning and blame their team.

I blame the community. The community for MMO's is ruined by a certain segment of that community and it is not the developers fault and I can prove it. The real problem with Ilum was the community. Whatever the developers did people would find ways to ruin it. Point trading or zerging or whatever. This was a community problem. The rewards were too good, they were too low etc etc. This is the community that will quit WZ's if losing rewards in WZ's are too light or sit by a turret if the losing rewards are too good. This is a community that complains that a class is OP when no changes were made to it since launch, the only change was other classes were nerfed. Then it switches to comlplain that the worst class originally is now the best post it's buff. Proof: How can I mathematically prove this to be true? Well, the developers change every game but the community lives on and the problem persists. Does anyone doubt the complaining about about balance and content will be any different in GW2? There has never been nor will there ever be a game the community doesn't rip apart. This has been the case since the old MMO communities became infested with the younger generation as a result of WoW. If I am wrong this will be proven by a game that is enjoyed and appreciated by the gaming community. If I am right, this nonsense will go on and the only great game will be the one that is "coming soon." As it stands I have heard nothing about how WoW, Terra, LoTR or anything is better then SWToR, the only games people say is better is the one that is not out yet. It's like babies who like what the other kid is playing with more than their own toy.