I once timed a pull just as the ball was being thrown to a enemy player up on our goal line and caused a interception. I have also timed a pull when a player was passing the ball to a player in scoring position. It's pretty funny to watch. Shadows and Assassins have a lot more utility than you think. Enemy pulls are just as good as friendly pulls in Huttball.

Oh you're right World PvP isn't fair, It shouldn't be fair. There should be a sense of foreboding and trepidation when your out in a PvP zone freely attacking and being attacked. Even with no death penalty no one likes to lose, especially those that PvP. So even if I have no fear of death I still fear losing. Raiding in a PvP zone is the same thing. You really don't fear death as much as you fear failure.

I know that so called hardcore PvP'ers are the minority. Back in the day that was all that was available. When SWG first came out the PvP was hardcore. UO was nothing but hardcore for a very long long time. it was dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century and is now a watered down version of what it was. But oh boy what a thrill it was to play Again I'm really not a fan of death penalties, I think if you earn something then you shouldn't have to fear is being ripped off your rotting corpse after 10 people ganked you into abolition. But I do think there is a way to balance some risk with the reward you receive and maybe in the process create a bit of fun. Having a raid in a PvP zone doesn't have to be hardcore. But it can be a lot of fun.

Go raibh maith agat Speaking of a language with no basis in Latin

Yup fresh 50 in recruit gear is meant to be a stop gap until full BM. Once you get your BM gear you'll start to see results. Around 1200 expertise.

Oh we get to toot our own horns!! Woot Woot Jedi Shadow Harmon Hawk Valor: 84 Wins 211< LOL Imps dominated our server Kills 10499 Medals:5125 MPV votes 587

Yeah we did the same thing on Kaas City a few months back. a 16 man raid was taking on the World Boss and a few of us rebels were killing off the people with low health. They finally had enough and turned on us and ran us off. As to your question yes I suppose it would have to be a free for all zone. But with the new server mergers factions are getting a bit more balanced. But yes there is a long way to go. I see a lot of potential problems with Open World PvP raids. There are of course gear issues (which do I wear PvP or PvE) and the issue of factions and such. But I think there would also be ways to work around the issues.

Yeah There are several ways to get Open World PvP going. I loved the player bounties in SWG as well. I would love to see Open World raids in PvP only zones offering a nice reward for completing it. It would give some incentive to go to the PvP zone. SWTOR has something along the lines I outlined above, I just remembered. In Buccaneers den on Tat, there is a world boss located there. But it really doesn't give anything good and it's not really a raid per say.

Hi A lot has been said about how to get open world PvP going in SWTOR, and a thought occurred to me about a game that I used to play and had very good open world PvP and to this day still has a bit of danger and risk for your reward. Now this game back on the day had a very harsh death penalty one that I would not like to see repeated. It has since been changed and penalty upon death has been carebeared. But there is still a risk vs reward for PvP'ers in this game. The game is Ultima Online. For those of you that payed it like me you know that back in the day UO was the ultimate PvP experience. When you died not only was your corpse picked clean but you suffered a stat loss and you had to pay to be rez'ed. Frankly it sucked but there was a element of danger and suspense. UO has something that I think SWTOR could emulate to a degree. UO has a Open World raid called a Champ Spawn. Most champ spawns are located in non PvP safe zones and grant people who participate in them a +5 to +10 power scroll. Low level easy to get items that any carebear can get. Not interesting. However there are a few Champ spawns (open world raids) that are located in PvP only areas (think Ilum). Everyone not in the raid group is flagged PvP. These champ spawns grant participants +20 power scrolls. These power scrolls are still very rare and to this day still command a very high price, because in order to obtain them you have to risk something to get them, mainly the risk of your raid being raided Open world PvP with a PvE content, risk for a good reward. I think it could work. The way we did it in UO was you had to have people basically guard the champ spawn while the raiders completed the spawn. Most Champ spawns turned into a PvP free for all, but a few good guilds would muster the numbers to complete the spawn and kill the raiding guild/party. I'll tell ya that was some of the most fun we had doing those champ spawns in PvP zones. Being on the look out for "reds". It made for some fun open world PvP and we would some how still get power scrolls. What do you think?

I make a list of all the level 48 and 49 Imps who pick on my level 15 Republic lowbie getting there easy mode kill. Then when I see them on my full WH Geared Rebel 50 I pick on there fresh 50 behinds. My list is two pages long and I have checked off quite a few names. Those are my most satisfying kills.

SRLSY? I PvP'd in UO back in the day. That was risk and danger and quite frankly it sucked. You never had any good equipment because every time you died your corpse was picked clean. When you died you suffered a 10% stat loss that you had to go out and re grind up only to be killed again and suffer an additional 10% stat loss. It was a joke. The problem with risk and danger is the human nature of MMO's. In UO people ran around in large Gank squads looking for people who were questing and trying to level. In 3 hits they wiped out what took you all day to accomplish. Sorry I'm done with that type of PvP. I enjoy the challenge of the fight not the danger of losing all my stuff and suffering a stat loss. Keep searching for your type of PvP. In modern MMO's you simply will not find it. You're in a low minority and I'm afraid you will never find your "holy grail".

How about a diminishing return on roots and snares? The more that are applied to you the less duration they have. A 4 second root applied 4 times would diminish to a 1 second root, or something along those lines. CC's not affected buy the resolve bar instead are effected by diminishing returns.

Bring your new recruit geared Operative against my Full War hero Scoundrel and I guarantee I will face roll you so fast it will make your head spin. This has nothing to do with my skill it has to do with my GEAR! Your miserable 1000 expertise and 13K health can not compete with my 1300 Expertise 18K+ health. In other words classes and performance in SWTOR PvP are not based on the skill of the player, it's in the level of gear. I don't care how skilled you think you are if you're in low tier PvP gear or like some no PvP gear and you face a player in top tier full War Hero gear you're gonna get rolled PERIOD! Against some classes you would be dead in 3 GCD's. Now as gear scales and you start to get expertise your performance does increase, but not until your facing a equally geared opponent can you claim skill in this game. When both players are in full War Hero and have 1300+ Expertise and 17500+ health then yes it comes down to skill and knowing how to play your class because you are both equal.

Could not agree more. On demand burst is needed to take down teams with multiple healers who are guarded and cross healing. Going to be interesting to see how this plays out.

No threads like this are called Trolls And they always hook people, Hook Line and Sinker.

I love this debate about reward vs winning Everyone assumes that the sides are equal and balanced, guess what? THE SIDES ARE NOT EQUAL AND BALANCED! On low population servers and even Medium population servers you have one side completely dominating the other due to severe faction imbalances. Be it Rebel or Imperial it's a self perpetuating gear gap that just keeps getting wider and wider. There is simply no way for the dominated side to catch up if there punished for not winning. It's a pointless debate, if all things were equal and balanced and you have close to even faction balance then maybe you could start to talk about rewarding the winning side and punishing the losers. But until that day BW has to do something to close the gear gap a bit so WZ's are competitive and not roflmastops buy one side.

Essentially a group of dual wielders get an additional 41 of expertise while others cant. Dual wielders don't need War Hero gear. With 1264 expertise in Battlemaster gear why do the War Hero grind?

The dual wield sabers and putting in +41 expertise crystals in both. I have 4 pieces of War Hero gear with 1242 expertise I have seen Sents/Maurd with only battlemaster gear and 2 +41 crystals have 1264 this is with out War Hero gear. They have the expertise with out needed the War Hero gear. Balanced?

SWTOR is a international game, not everyone speaks English as there first language. Lighten up on the Grammar patrol ok. On to Stun Wars online. It is a bit out of control but manageable, I would like to see the duration of our stun break reduced and a trinket added that also breaks stun on a different but longer cool down. Right not it's completely possible to lock down someone for over 10 seconds. With the TTK reduced and expertise increased your dead before you can ever press a button in response.

OMG people Do a simple Google search and be amazed at the cheats hacks for this game. I suspect BW has a never ending war on there hands fighting the cheaters.

Same here, last war zone for the evening was a huttball match against the Imps. 4 people on our team had over 15K health I have 17K in change. The rest had sub 13K one had 11K. There is simply no way to compete with that kind of gear gap when the Imp team were facing is War Hero and above. It might as well have been 4v8. Again nothing against the un geared it's just if there is going to be this kind of gap in the gear at least make the que system take gear into account when making the teams.

TOR has a serious problem on there hands. There is a self perpetuating faction imbalance gear gap happening on a lot of servers. One side is simply dominating the other winning 90% of the matches and thus getting stronger. Pre 1.2 it was bad but it wasn't at the levels that 1.2 has brought. Pre 1.2 I could win a few matches even complete a daily and a weekly in a timely manner. Since the 1.2 patch I have yet to win my daily PvP quest that I picked up patch day Thursday as of right now I am 0/3. I have played easily in access of 100 matches since Thursdays patch and have yet to even come close to winning. That is not balance. I'm playing with the same people, we simply get smeared by a over geared team that dominates from the start usually we start with 3 or 4 people against there 8 so we stand a sub zero chance to win.

Yes the difference is that the few Champ gear pieces you have mixed with your BM gear contributed to your survivability. With the mix of Champ and BM you were at least able to compete with teams running full BM geared players. Pre 1.2 the difference between Champ and BM was very small. Now however those few champ pieces have become a liability, they didn't scale up. So the people in full BM sets got boosted via a huge net increase in expertise while those in Champ didn't, the few BM pieces you have scaled up but the champ pieces didn't so you're behind again. The damage increase you're seeing IMO is a direct result of faction imbalance gear gaps. As of 1.2 Expertise is even more important. The people who were able to get full BM gear are reaping the rewards of the Expertise increase. Those that didn't get full BM gear are having to catch up. With the lower rewards for losing catching up is hard.

The changes are being felt on the low population servers with large faction imbalances. If you play on a server where there is equal or a slight imbalance then then War zones probably haven't changed all that much. On low pop servers where there was a gear gap pre 1.2 there is now a gear chasm as wide as the Grand Canyon. Pre 1.2 if you had Champ gear you could compete in War Zones. Even losing you felt like at the very least you were moving forward. Now the gap between Champ and BM is HUGE! You have to have a full set of BM gear to compete. On low pop servers the dominated side lost more frequently thus they were behind the gear race and now that 1.2 has hit if you didn't have a full BM set you were right back to square one. I have 7 pieces of BM gear on my Jedi Shadow the rest is Champ I now have 911 expertise. That was all I was able to grind up pre 1.2 on a Empire Dominated server. So all my hard work was nullified because Champ did not scale up. Basically BW said either you're in full BM when 1.2 hits or you're screwed, and a lot of us on low pop servers who were dominated did not get full BM sets before 1.2 hit.

Stop it with your silly common sense. The delusional PvP'ers in here are going to tell you that there is no gear gap. That the dominated side loses because they don't run with pre made's and lack any real skill. We need to L2P and all that garbage. Fact is people on the dominating side enjoy the advantage. Why change it? Winning is better than losing. But on low population servers where there are HUGE faction imbalances, the gear divide is so wide that war zones are a absolute joke. This argument about gear got me ostracized on my server for speaking out against the expertise gap. As long as we have a stat that gives an advantage to those that have it over those that don't PvP in SWTOR will never be based solely on skill. Knowing how to play your class is important but if I have 1100 expertise and you have zero I'm going to wipe the floor with you 100% of the time, skill or not you're toast.