That's what he's quoting. YOU originally posted it, not him. He was quoting YOU, and you misquoted it because he sniped it out. Apparently there are blind people posting these days...

Defense hits Diminishing Returns before 400. It's in the tanking primer guide. 400 is just the average amongst all tertiary stats that most people stop putting points into it, but if you are comparing the 3 defense stats Defense/Shield/Absorb then it's better to put points into the 3 in the following order: Absorb (Best stat because it's straight reduction when an attack is shielded and has the best rate of return) Shield (Because without a significant shield rating, having high absorb is worthless so this is the next best thing to focus on) Defense (Avoiding damage completely is nice, but it also suffers from the Gambler's Fallacy and has the lowest rate of return on points invested)

Seriasx, you keep spouting the *same* thing over and over, as if repeating your opinion of what PvP should be makes it law. 1) It doesn't 2) It isn't law, not even close. If you want "equal" pvp on all fronts; go play CS or a FPS; there's your equality for you. But even FPS games now have progression. You have levels and perks and all that ********. You going to come back to me and say "Well it's not fair that this guy played more hours then me and got to Elite Rank 60 and unlocked these cool and useful perks, I want to be able to unlock the perks NOW! WAAAAAH QQ" No, you aren't. You nut up, you play the games to get to whatever silly level system is in place and then you unlock your perk. Now translate that to MMO's. I don't know if you have forgotten but the full name is MMO-RPG. RPG's have gear progression. Just because PvP has become some necessity that people clamor for doesn't mean PvP should change the face of how MMO's should deal with gear. Again; I like even fights, but at the same time I don't like people hitting 50, and then not having to work for their gear. There's no sense of accomplishment if you get free gear just HANDED to you. Welfare Epics is all this is. You can hide behind any excuse or white-knight statement about "We want an even playing field" all you want. I don't buy it. You want to know why I don't buy it? Because those dedicated to playing PvP will still continue to play, they'll get their gear regardless of any grind necessary to get it, and once they get their gear they will continue to play PvP. Making it easy to get Battlemaster will only do one thing, it will cause people to grind PvP to get gear so they have cool/useful gear for PvE. As someone else said in a previous post; this is a bad move. All this will do is encourage PvE's who have no desire to PvP to play just enough to get their gear, and then they will leave. Either extreme in acquiring gear in pvp is bad. You make it too hard; and there's no sense of accomplishment because it becomes tedious. You make it too easy, and you trivialize the gear, you destroy PvE gear progression already in place, and you cause artifical inflation in the low-mid skilled PvP populace. And you know what happens when you artificially inflate the population of PvPers who are going for their gear because it's easy to acquire? You don't get your "even playing field"; you get non-skilled PvE players who are pvping for easy gear. So your entire argument is fallacious, because the end-result you want is the complete opposite direction 1.2 will do. Edit: Also this... Pretty much my thoughts in a nutshell. Gear progression causes competition in a friendly environment. Only those who think gear makes a person good are the ones who want the changes in 1.2 to go through. You can put everyone in Battlemaster gear, it still won't change the fact you Seriasx don't know how to pvp. And that is why you lose. It's never been about "equal gear", you just don't know how to pvp, so you clamor for welfare epics; thinking that this will allow you to do well. *News Flash* It won't.

I both agree and disagree with these arguements about BM gear. MMO's are gear based games. Anyone who says otherwise is fooling themselves. Raiders have to raid for awhile to get gear. You don't see raiders saving up money to buy Rakata gear at lvl 50. Once they hit level 50 they have to start raiding to get the gear. This is how the system was. Now if they start making it so that way you can save up for raid gear while leveling then I'm all for it. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. So far all I'm seeing are people hide behind the pretense of "It'll be an even playing field with gear"; great. Now you have no 'progression' in PvP at all. Everyone's on equal footing....why? I spent close to 5 hours a day many days to grind my Valor. I didn't trade kills in Ilum, I didn't exploit Valor in the small 24-hour period where many did. And yet now I'm punished because my time hitting BM before 1.2 will be completely obviated and it's quite possible that those people who never PvP'd before today will be able to get the gear that I worked so long and hard for. This is not a whine; it's about fairness. If you have to raid X amount of hours to get Full Rakata Gear in PvE, why should PvPers get their gear any faster? They shouldn't. End of story. I'll say it again in big bold letters. MMO's are about GEAR PROGRESSION. The entire game is about outfitting your character with gear as you go through the story.

Just a side question; but why do so many people not like the Rapid Fire talent? (31pt MM Talent) Just curious...

Endurance all the way. The reason being (for me at least) is that with the new healing skill juggs are getting in 1.2 along with Payback talent; you can heal yourself for a significant amount of health. Since it's percentage based it's better to have a higher health pool to increase that percentage. That's the beauty of % based heals is that the more you stack endurance; the better it gets.

I've done what you are doing. I ignored stats with defense, on my Rakata gear I've swapped out mods for mods with +Shield or +Absorb over +Defense. Defense is great; don't get me wrong, but it suffers from diminishing returns faster then the other two. The reason being is it "avoids" all damage. Where shielding only blocks part of it. Absorb has the best return rate on stats, and that's because it is a static decrease in damage taken when an attack is shielded. Increasing shield rating/absorb rating ends up smoothing out incoming damage; making your life go down in a more predictable manner as opposed to dodging 4 attacks in a row; and then taking 4 hits in a row. In short: I prefer shielding/absorption over defense as well.

Playing Devils Advocate here again: Instanced PvP does not equate to boring. The best PvP I've ever had the enjoyment of playing was guild matches in Guild Wars. The reason it's so enjoyable is that PvP in Guild Wars is the tactical use of skill and point builds, not just a mass keybashing fest of all your skills as fast as possible. You had to CHOOSE skills and combinations of skills in Guild Wars that complimented not only your playstyle; but also your team. Each person in a match was aware of what their role was; they were aware of what their strengths and weaknesses (usually) were. Instanced PvP can work VERY WELL if done correctly.

Just as a "devils advocate" type of response. I cleared EV and have the Infernal and Unyielding titles as full "pure" Immortal build using the following. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101crhfzMrkuRZhZRr.1 Fairly standard build IMO. I don't go heavy into vengeance like most because as a tank I like the ability to heal myself for 10% (2100 hp with my health currently) when a boss knocks me back, slows me or stuns me. (Perfect example of this is when Gharj pounces on you when you switch platforms.) I also find this build perfect for PvPing without having to respec. I do miss the reduced cost of retaliation, but the free Chilling Scream and the 1 Rage cost backhand kind of makes up for it. As for the 14/27 build. I have a feeling it's going to be drastically changed due to Huddle no longer existing in 1.2 right now in the PTS. Along with the new "Defeaning Defense" skill or whatever it's called. I do think they took the WRONG direction with these talent tree changes. Not joking: I actually think full vengeance (or near full vengeance) will be the best tanking tree with some practice. The tanking talents in the Immortal tree all focus on reducing costs and have little cohesion. I'll miss out on having Force Grip if I switch to vengeance; but that really only affects PvP for the most part.

Playing a sniper is FUN! I haven't played a full-on DPS class since....Vanilla WoW. (Usually played Buff/Debuff/CC classes....aka Loremaster in LOTRO) Sniper is a load of fun. I tried an operative (as a healer actually) but just couldn't deal with the "I have a blaster rifle but I'll use my knife more!" type of fighting. I want to level a sorcerer as DPS too but the class has been overpopulated for months.

I had to smile at this. I agree; the best situations where Jugg's shine is in multi target fights where they are looking at the enemies around them and using the best CC for the situation. Force charging that guy casting Revivification, Force Choking that sniper out of his cover, etc etc. In 1v1 situations the CC is nice if you are trying to lock a healer down or finish an enemy off; but I agree; Jugg CC is best spread around.

Disclaimer: Mainly responding to the bolded part. That's incorrect. A rooted target can still take actions (such as passing the ball if they hold it; or stunning you if you are the ball carrying) while a stunned target cannot; unless they use their CC breaker. While I understand some people did not take the Crash talent for the sole purpose of not wanting to fill up the resolve bar; it has it's uses. While it may seem redundant, I currently take both Crash AND Stagger talents. This is for use on both regular and full resolve bars. Just my 2 cents on the talent.

Bolded parts are short word summaries of my feelings on each companion. Vette: Never used beyond when she was my only companion. As someone above stated; her demeanor does not fit a Sith Warrior that much. Even though she is really the only companion you have affection quests that take you places the quest themselves don't endear me to her. Not only that but her attitude/quests pretty much require you to be the "sarcastic good-guy" to gain affection "naturally" with her. In short: I hate using her. Quinn: Pretty much the de facto best companion for tanking Juggernauts (and even some non-tanking ones). He is loyal (to a degree); very imperialistic (which fits nicely with the "loyal servant" theme he puts out). His backstory makes sense; and he can play a good off-healing or off-dps quite well. His utility as a companion is only matched by his decent story. Jaesa: Good eye-candy melee dps. And I'm not talking about her looks either! Having a double-bladed lightsaber wielder is just fun to play with. Her story is very good; there are some extremes which could have been done better but overall she fits very well into the Sith Warrior role/storyline (especially if you turn her). Her DPS isn't bad. She does some nice AoE and single target DPS but the reason a lot of people misjudge her is because being in melee she takes more damage. If I'm not using Quinn, I'm using Jaesa. Broonmark: Backstory is very weak. Everytime I talked to Broonmark I felt like yelling "HULK SMASH" because that's how came off. He comes off as brutish; and his nature doesn't really make sense for his race. His story for wanting to side with the Sith Warrior is such a far stretch it's ridiculous. Not only that, but he's a melee tank. Very redundant for Juggernauts. Pierce: His story gained through affection is actually decent; but since you cannot participate in it; it becomes a bit of a letdown. His introductory story isn't bad; and Pierce plays a nice backup to Quinn in terms of the "loyal imperial servant". Where Quinn is the loyal commissioned officer; Pierce is the loyal NCO. It provides a nice mix; however his skillset is a bit redundant as a ranked tank. His damage isn't that bad if put into a DPS stance, but he doesn't have the AoE abilities of Vette. I wish I had a better reason to use him but I don't so he stays on the shelf. 2V-R8: Moderately good as your first healer before you get Quinn; will be better in 1.2 hopefully. Pretty much a de-facto gatherer for crew skills though.

^ This. I kind of don't see the point of 3 modes either. 2 modes with more actual *progression* in them would be nice. Remember, many guilds couldn't clear entire encounters in WoW when they first came out. You might reach a gear check half-way through at a certain boss. The wonderful thing about WoW raids later on was that they weren't linear. Most of them gave you a choice on which boss you wanted to fight. (Usually laid out in a radial pattern) and you could progress through the bosses dependant upon your groups skill level. The other thing that WoW did well was crafting. Crafted high tier gear was what you used to get ready for most raids during Vanilla/TBC. (Remember having to craft Nature Resist gear in Silithus before doing AQ20/AQ40?) If they make crafted gear viable/on par with normal/hardmode raids. Then you can kill two birds with one stone. 1) Reduce the number of modes for operations. 2) Improve the need for crafted gear as this will help people gear up for the "nightmare" mode ops. There really is no need for middle of the road difficulties; this just dilutes things...causes gear and stat inflation and makes it harder for them to balance/create operations since Hardmode operations have additional mechanics then Normal and Nightmare has even MORE additional mechanics then Hardmode. Think about it.

Interesting build. I like the cohesion but I have to wonder about pooled hatred. It's just way to unreliable. It's really only going to off if you get rooted or slowed, and for it to stack high enough to be good for "burst" you'll really only come across 3 specific builds/classes that will build your stacks up relatively fast. Immortal Spec Jugs who spam their free Chilling Scream skill. Pyro spec Powertechs who spam Flame Burst with the slowing talent. Madness spec Inquisitors who spam force lightning. Aside from that, other roots/slows are on long enough cooldowns to either exceed the timer for pooled hatred; or not be significant enough to really be any useful addition. Also, with 1.2 coming out expect talent tree reworks. So this may not be viable in a month.

At least it would give Juggernauts a reason to back to stacking defense and making them the "Defense" tank. Right now Powertechs/SA's both have high synergy with shield/absorb talents. Juggernauts have a few talents which tie in with deflect/parry but at the moment they are sub-par and lack the cohesion that the other two tanking AC's get in their tanking tree. My hope is that 1.2 addresses this. It would be hard to balance, but I'm sure they could make it a % modifier based upon a specific stat. Something like "anti-surge" (like resilience but it works in PvE). That way normal deflecting still works (where blaster bolts are deflected away from the tank) but given the right stats and some luck, some blaster bolts will be reflected back at their source. (Please don't confuse the words deflect and reflect, they have very different meanings; as I've seen some people use them interchangeably).

Apparently someone hasn't done enough homework. You can only use legacy unlocked skills during your "Heroic Moment". (every 20 minutes at max). Since you can only use your Heroic Moment with a companion out this means .... YUP you guessed it; it doesn't affect PvP warzones. Nor can this be used in operations either. You mean your class will be "Overpowered" for PvE? Who cares...it's small-group PvE. It's not like the NPC's are going to come whining on the forums like you have going "OMG, it's so unfair....Sith Warriors are so OP. They now have force storm and force choke! They kill me and my buddies in like 2 seconds! NERF TEH WARRIORS. BUFF NPCS!"

^This guy speaks the truth. MMO's are about grind. Veiled grind maybe, but grind none-the-less. In order for grind to be "fun" there has to be a "carrot". Whatever YOUR carrot is determines how much you enjoy the game. For some people the carrot is Story. (completing class quest) For some people the carrot is Gear. (Attaining the best gear) For some people the carrot is wealth. (Able to buy anything they want in-game). For some people the carrot is Aesthetics (Being able to look the coolest) And the list can go on, some people want to gather ALL the recipes for a certain profession; others want to attain all the achievments or datacrons. Or maybe it's a combination of the above examples. The point about PvP gear being available...unless the grind for these items becomes massive; is that you'll have no tiers of progression. People will just save up for the best War Hero items. Right now in PvE you have people go through Flashpoints/Operations. The natural progression is Tier 1 (Tionese/Exotech)--->Tier 2 (Columi/Crit-Crafted Purples) ---> Tier 3 (Rakata/Crit-Crafted Columi/Rakata Gear) So why is it that it's ok for PvE to have progression, but it's not for PvP? Why are people so adament about "equal gear for all"? Who cares if that guy in War Hero gear decimated that fresh 50. If that fresh 50 REALLY wants to be competitive in PvP...he'll do the SAME VALOR GRIND that the War Hero did to get that gear. Then when he gets that gear, him and other War Hero's will be on even ground. It doesn't matter if that fresh 50 gets stomped. He's a fresh 50!!! Fresh 50's get stomped regardless of where they are, PvE or PvP. So why the QQ about gear disparity in PvP? Earn your gear just like you earn it in PvE; stop asking for 'welfare epics' because you don't know how to play your class.

Please explain how you feel it "failed in every single occasion it was most needed". I'm eagerly awaiting your fallacious reply.

Just because you refuse to listen to audio cues, doesn't make it a bad system. But keep on thinking that because you dictate that audio cues are worthless that it obviates my argument. *Hint*: It doesn't. Many people, including myself use audio cues for many things; including timing and situational awareness. If you refuse to use them, that's your fault. Not mine.

I call ********. I frequently run with a pocket healer friend and we do well together and I end the match with at least 7-9 medals regularly in the #1 slot. I'll usually have ~180k damage and anywhere between 80k-170k protection. You won't have both. Show me screenies of you doing 300k protection AND 200k+ damage in a match, then I'll believe. Until then, you're floating.

Based upon the location and the layout, you are in the Network Security District doing the quest Wiping the Slate.

The concept of talent trees isn't a failure; what the problem in WoW was that talent trees got bloated by the increase in levels to the point where talent trees were ridiculously long and become hard to balance, especially with "Hybrid" specs. (Same issue here in SWTOR regarding the hybrid specs) Right now the problem I see with talent trees in SWTOR is they have no significant choices. Nearly every talent tree lets you spend every point you have in that tree with only 3-7 points not spent for talents in that single tree. There are nearly no significant choices; which is exactly why Blizzard changes their talent design in trees to be more significant at the beginning of Cataclysm. Actually no. It's not their job to teach players how to play their advanced class. That's the fun of MMO's; those who don't understand how to play get "thinned" out of the herd. They'll never play Hard-Mode FPs or OPs. BioWare teaches you the basics; beyond that it's "your game". The UI does have some signals; the Agent laughs when he gets probe crits that give him a Tactical Advantage proc. The Bounty Hunter laughs and has a red shield briefly circle him when they get a PPA proc. It only took me about 30 minutes of playing to realize that the laugh/red shield meant my PPA had proc'd. Do you really need BIG FLOATING TEXT from addons to tell you how to play your class like in WoW? I think those who learn how to read the game mechanics without Addons are more skilled then those who require such addons to do the same thing. I think you are too used to the spoonfeeding WoW addons gave you and need to go back to the basics of understanding how to play a game with your own two hands and brain; rather then having macros and addons do all the clicking and thinking for you.

Uh yea...what he said ^

That's a rather conceited viewpoint there Mr. Orange Text. What makes you think you are good? That isn't an affront to you; what makes you think you are a good tank? For that matter, what makes you think most other tanks are bad? Many people think they do better then they are; that much I'll agree to, and I'd like to point that statement back to you as well. The role of tank in the operations thus far is insanely easy for most bosses. Karagga? Probably the easiest final boss ever. But he's not the gate in that raid, the real gate in KP is Bonethraser (to an extent because it's a tankless boss) and G4-B3 (the real gate). In EV, there's not really a gate. All of the bosses are easy with the exception of Soa. But I digress, unless a tank is consistently and for lengthy periods of time losing aggro when they shouldn't, they are doing their job. I'd just be interested in seeing what you think is a "bad tank" at this point in time in SWTOR.