Ok If I am going to possibly believe this . It is a perfect example of how pvp servers police this behavior and the fear pve''ers have of being on a pvp server are not warranted. And there is all kinds of Irony since pve servers are supposed to be for the more skilled civilized players (sarcasm). If there is any large scale ganking or D-bag manuevers on Tat for example and it is confirmed , 20+ people show up and handle it usually headed by the guild Alpha Company. I have always felt Pve'ers were a more passive aggressive kind of player and this reaffirms my beliefs. So transfer to Jung ma or servers like it.

I'd transfer to that server just to help fight ,that sounds fun too me.

On Jung Ma we would have crushed that quick so I am pretty sure human behavior being what it is on that server same thing would have happened if this was true . And from my experience every game I have ever played a game that has world pvp as soon as there is something shady going on a group of people are going to show up to smash it so ya I think this is pve social activist wanting to take world pvp out of the game . A game that rhyme s with POW had these people and I see this monster creep up it's head in this games forums as well.

Sounds pretty made up and like total propaganda. I call Bull S

Just because I feel like making waves everyone should que, bad or not and watch people like this rage. Man you guys make pve elitist look reasonable. You were probably the same people crying that no one qued for rank like a month ago ,now there is an objective and rewards you flip lol. I'm going to take my fresh 55 guardian in into ranked tonight and watch people like this have a coronary .

Give us Clairvoyant Strike as well if we need to share force pull

um if you want force pull as a generic ability every one gets then make mind warp a generic. passive to all shadows. Its bs to have to hard cast mind crush as a fully spec'ed pvp tank. Force pull is the only cool thing that we have over the other 2 specs so if they want to remove our staple ability and give it too all shadows then tanks need something in return that makes up for that.

Or ..... It's a video game and they are the enemy and on a PVP server. I love how some people have too attatch some kind of sociopathic behavioral name tag on some one who 's avatar kills another persons avatar. Then again I saw some guy pull over and take fruit off some ones peach tree and that irritated me (it's basically stealing) go figure.

I totally do gank on gankers!

Wild star looks goofy but eso pvp looks pretty amazing and they were able to maintain small group pvp on the out skirts of the pvp zone. I wish BW would make a big open world planet with massive battles, heck Hoth would be perfect w(with a little redesigning with at ats and snow speeders and large scale pvp. or and Endor type planet. Swtor can be just as innovative if it takes the initiative.

would love the Idea of my friend manning my ships turrets while we dog fight through open space trying to escape gankers.

I never pve so I never have a chance at all the mounts from from pve quests. This is pvp's first mount and how many are available through your hard mode raids or is it flash points either way hopefully this is a start to some really nice mount designs for both PVP and pve!

I agree with op and not you, so I am part of we as well the op is right on target with his opinion !

Can't wait to play Star citizen!

The game looks amazing and the freedom it offers is amazing.

So you don't remember Dps Ops at launch they were destroying everyone and it does say to expect a signifigant boost in damage, but it's cool because you will get a taste of what they can do when over tuned so enjoy. Pretty sure their Kolto heals healing more targets is a buff. My point is not to pick on the operative because I have one and they are fun my point is that shadows changes a few weeks ago were called a buff and all the pve heroes are patting them selves on the back for the change while acting like this is better for pvp as well, I still believe it was a nerf to pvp for the player. MY complaint toward the sage and operatives buffs are that they will be a buff across the board and make sense for both pve and pvp which is fine because I get the changes. But when it comes to dealing with shadows BW approaches buffs (arguably) with an unorthodox technique that makes no sense even our damage buff was just to a few abilities not a complete buff to all damage abilities which I assume the operative is getting since they did not specify any particular ability buff but a signifigant buff tells me this means an over all buff. And as far as shadow being less important in the grand scheme of things! To me my shadow is important since I have spent a lot of time I will not get back on him!

Nice to see shadow protection will not be refined in 2.6 . So since we are consulars as well will we get the benefit of no push back to our sage shared abilities like tkt . DPS Operatives are getting a large dps buff so they will be back to pre 2.0 ownage most likely. So while we get locked down we wont even get a chance to get dr off and their heals are getting a buff too! while we completely lost ours. I am so disappointed!

I my self did not read much on the shadow tank change threads. My only concern was that shadow tanks were considered op and our heals would just be reduced again because of the Hybrid spec and fib heals on top of our self heal mechanism. I run my talents all the way up the tank tree and dump the rest on the more offensive talents in the other trees I forsake force in balance( and it's extra heals) for slow time and other balance talents so pure tank gets the shaft again. I never thought they would completely remove self heals that is my fault for not reading more threads in what I thought was purely pve's problems but as you can see a lot of us are coming out about this because this awesome pve fix that does not translate to pvp. I feel the difference that is all the proof I need and as I stated earlier with my fix to this problem ( the self heal tank form)and yes I mean 2 tank forms to choose from then none of this discussion needs to even be going. If they can take on the bolster system they can make this work IMO. And in all honesty I stayed with the last mmo I played for 8 years (so I am able to commit) and it was just a roller coaster of disappointment taking staple abilities away and just plain destroying the class and in some cases giving them to other classes this just feels too much like that ! I should have seen it when we (shadows) were the last to get a class preview a month from launch while most other classes had 2 by that point I didn't even know what the shadow was going to bring too the table till then. Basically In any relationship with work, business or personal if you are ignored and or shut down even when you have a solution to the problem it's best too walk away because decisions have been made that don't usually get reversed.

The funny thing about that The first hot fix I ever saw was in the first week of wrath they dialed down damage from Pally and Locks seems fitting doesn't it. Now I play a shadow and this company cant stop nerfing ( every patch our survivability is cut profoundly now self heals are gone) or changing mechanics on shadow, stealth seems like it got a nerf in 2.0 I just can't prove it! l While other classes have glaring issues whether it being Over powered or under powered. Hopefully the next class from another up coming game I will be playing won't be that class that seems to get adjusted no matter what state the other classes are in.

Second Tank stance that gives us back our self heals removes DR buff problem fixed everyone happy! other tank stance (form) gives DR instead of self heals problem fixed everyone happy! They both work Identically so what would the issue be ?

But the other tanks don't have to get three stacks and a channel in to get the most out of their DEF. My proof is I play the class a lot in pvp I can take a good amount of damage for a bit then I get widdled down and eventually chunked down as compared to hanging in a fight till the end with self heals . You act as if you are the only one that plays this class . You have your experience and I have mine . Where the frustration comes in, is you are telling some one like me that we are basically lying or completely ignoring the experience we have in this game and yours is the only valid one. All they need to do is give us a second Tank stance that gives self heals instead of the dr buff it's brilliant no trees are affected and the player gets to have the choice DR lovers are happy self heals lovers are happy if their is any argument to this fix at all it's obvious you have a separate agenda or just want to be passive aggressive for some strange reason. I do not care about pve only pvp and wpvp . Self heals were here first (you wouldn't thinks so the way some people act) so there is no reason my Idea would not work and be emplimented easily it makes everyone happy in the end. But I have a feeling there are other agendas at play. If I didn't know this was a game forum I would think I am dealing with a bunch of politicians just for the fact some of you act as if you know what's better for us than we do and we should just agree because you say so. (shady) that would be fine if this was a class I had never played before. Sorry Jad I agree with you this was more for the nay sayers.

is it pyro who has a bubble that heals when they are struck does commando have a similar ability and whats the cool down on that?

You are talking about PVE right? Because BH are un killable 1 vs 1 and own in wz's from my experience. If it's Pve you are talking about that may be a different story.

I know it's hard to grow a thick skin But after you deal with any mmo community for awhile it happens. I have heard the 12 year old comparison since I can remember it's just to get under your skin . I would roll opposite faction and gank the people that anger you or their guildies harness your anger and make your self a better player but that's just me. As far as the white male remark I think I get the generalization but you are kinda doing the same thing by lumping your enemies into group of people who are innocent. Pretty soon you will have witty come backs just go alpha male on them (assuming you are a male) it's a pack mentality you have to command respect not demand it !

They could fix this by adding a new def stance that trades the DR buff for self heals instead I have plenty of room for another stance on my action bars there problem fixed and both sides are happy! But this just makes too much sense so It will never happen.