Ahhh thanks all, I saw that thread awhile back and didn't realize it talked about armor sets.

This one time, a sage perma stunned me for 3 seconds. I get perma rooted by snipers for almost 5 seconds..... perma!!! FYI perma= permanent I

Hi, just about to hit 50 on my vanguard and I needed some advice on the best set of armor to go with (SuperCommando or Eliminator). I have stuck with mainly an Iron Fist spec (25 shield/12 tactics) so I am tanky, but I don't want to feel stuck in that role in case I change to a dps spec later on, so I am thinking Eliminator set is better for me??? If anyone has any advice, I would appreciate it.... thanks!

I just KNEW you'd pick Daoc.... and buddy, I really don't think you ever played that game. DAOC had PLENTY of helping in place to get people up in realm ranks fast. They put in quests that gave you realm points (the equivalent of valor in this game). They made leveling artifact equipment easy as heck, made it super easy to get gear. And if you could at least get a kill or two, you were earning realm points... thus your argument that you received ZERO or NEGATIVE awards for losing in DAOC is completely and utterly false. And DAOC was btw the game that made equipment grinding in order to PvP the thing to do. Trials of Atlantis proved that, and before that you had to grind out tradeskills to try and get 99%-100% quality armor so you could spellcraft it with the most points. I've FORGOTTEN more about DAOC than you obviously ever knew.

Now THAT is a challenge!!!! I'd love to see some of these elitist "I teh skillz you suckzors" types try that out.... maybe they'd see how bad it is from the other side =) I'll even give you recruit gear.... cause I'm cool like that

Oh and I ask you, what games are you talking about exactly that give you ZERO or NEGATIVE rewards for losing in WZs (or BGs, or Warfronts, whatever). I've played just about every major mmo that has come out in the past decade that has some form of PvP in it (with the exception of EVE).... and they ALL gave awards to the losers as well. So what game are you talking about, or are you just referring to EVE, which is definitely a niche game?

Except that you can't even get on an even playing field without the comms for BM gear.... how does that work into your little equation?? Let everyone have the same gear, THEN work on getting good. Gear shouldn't be the reward for being good, WINNING should be the reward for being good. Your win/loss ratio, kill/death ratio, TTK, etc. are all indicators of how good you are.... your equipment IS NOT AN INDICATION OF HOW GOOD YOU ARE, JUST HOW LONG YOU HAVE PLAYED. Under this new rewards system AND the old rewards system, and the post 1.2 system, ANYONE on a long enough timeline would eventually get full BM... so its really no achievement at all, just an indication of how long you have played. Stick to PvE for gear progression, please.

You sound like someone who lives in his own little world and expects everyone to view it exactly as he does.... I mean did you really just say that since you hardly see blowouts, that he shouldn't either?? As if you could possibly know what kind of server he's on, the quality of players he ques with, etc. etc.?? As for why he should get DECENT rewards too.... and BETTER rewards for doing BETTER (you know, like more rewards for each medal you get, which are independent to whether his team wins or not).... is because we don't pay to play this game just to be punching bags for you elite types (which for the most part, just means you grinded the gear before we did.... and you know it, and you feel threatened because now the gear gap is shrinking and thus your "skill"). And BW agrees that we shouldn't be uncompensated punching bags, and are helping the losers out. Why should you care?? By your own statements, we just lose cause we suck, so what difference does it make to you if we suck in better equipment too??

No, it's wonderful actually!!!! I am PvPing more than I ever have.... in fact my biggest problem is picking which character to do it on.... I am constantly switching between 4-5 different characters/classes and having a blast on all of them, even when I am losing. Even the DPS classes I feel like I am getting somewhere, whereas before if I got in a bad WZ where I go all out, but only get 2-3 medals, I'd be lucky to get ANY comms at all. The biggest plus to this system is that now I want to get all my characters to 50 to try them out in 50 PvP.... and I will probably play alot longer because of that. Right on, BW.... finally you do something right!!!

I've spotted your problem..... I don't think PvP is really for you if thats the reason why you did it.

ROFLMAO Hard work, eh??? Wow, I'd love to know what you do for a living in RL.... you're either still living off your parents or your Paris Hilton or something. Let me ask you something.... do you still have your BM equipment?? Did others getting it faster somehow take it away from you? Are you the type of person who's own sense of achievement depends directly on what everyone else around you achieves? Did you just PvP so you could do gear progression and lord it over all around you? Do you realize that EVERYONE will achieve BM gear on a long enough time line, no matter what, win or lose, so its really not any kind of achievement at all??? PvE gear progression carebears need to stick to PvE for gear grinds.... don't come looking for that type of fulfillment in the PvP aspect of this or any game.... you just ruin it.

This was the only post worth reading in the thread so far

Let me tell you what a wonderful night I had last night on my sentinel. Played 5 warzones total, won none of them. 2 of them I was in the full length, got 2-3 meds each, and no rewards. NO REWARDS..... our side got obliterated, I was top damage on our side one of the WZs, 3rd or fourth the other. I'm wearing all recruit armor... I can't imagine anyone else on my team was any better equipped since their performance was equally poor. Most of the time, our entire team was just getting smashed to pieces before they could do anything..... getting 3 capped in Alderan and Novare. Are you really going to tell me thats strictly a l2play issue, or gear disparity issue, or a mixture of both?? My other 3 WZs, I got 15, 25, and 34 comms respectively.... then logged off in disgust. No wait, I'm sorry, I logged onto my 44 vanguard alt were I could easily get 10-12 medals even during a loss, because: 1) 10-49 damage is not skewed so badly because of the expertise/gear disparity 2) Vanguards/tanks have such an easy time getting medals being able to shield/guard people. Needless to say I made the decision to stick with my vanguard as my main..... I have no desire being a punching bag on my Sent for crap medals, while the other side gets 90+ for steamrollering a bunch of "bads". Oh quick question.... I bet you are already in BM aren't you?? Yeah its alot easier to get 240k+ damage when you already have the equipment.

This is a prime example of BW not thinking things through, and not testing thoroughly enough. See, what they did with Voidstar is implement a mechanic whereby if the Round 2 attacking team does better than the Round 1 attacking team, the game ends as soon as the R2 attacking team achieves a victory. Thus, if on Round 1 the defending team allows NO bombs to be planted, and then on their offense plant a bomb successfully within the first 30secs, the game ends really fast. And as a reward for their awesome job.... LESS rewards than if they had spent the whole extra 6 minutes in order to plant. While they PERFORMED better, the game itself rewards a team based on how LONG they play, not how well they performed. Get it?? So its actually to your detriment (from the standpoint of grinding out valor and comms) to end the game as fast as possible. Makes alot of sense, amiright?? Perform the goal of the WZ faster and more efficiently, you get penalized by not getting rewarded as well. What I hate about the WZ now is, what if I wanted to see if our team could make it to the end and hack the computer files? Isn't that the stated goal of the WZ? But you aren't even given that chance anymore..... BW apparently felt there is a dying need to end the game as soon as possible. Which I agree with in one sense, because Voidbowels is the worse WZ evar, but at least reward teams in the proper fashion.

That's what I'm concerned about.... they can lower the minimum to get rewards down to 1 or -134, but if the reward for losing is still >40, kinda nixes the whole motivation to try hardest no matter what. If we could just get rewarded PER medal, with a minimum amount for finishing the match.... thats what I would like to see. It should start at say 35, and get another 5 comms per medal. I've had losses with 10-12 medals.... so its not like I was afking. Some might say that would turn it into a medal farm.... but yeah isn't it that way now??

Ok, Buddy.... you talking real I'll talk real back to you. The pure unadulterated facts are, you get your equipment by spending TIME in the game. There's no ifs about getting BM gear, you WILL get it eventually. You are not good or better or the best for having it before someone else, you just spent more time playing, got there first, or whatever. Now.... lets see how we want to treat new PvPers reaching 50.... do we want to make it a long, arduous, completely un-fun grind to get their full BM (and beyond), where they are constantly trounced by those who got there first, treated as poorly compenstated sparring partners at best.... uncompenstated punching bags at worst (get stuck in an undermanned, undergeared gank fest??). And don't give me that recruit gear is so awesome.... its still lacking some 400 expertise ON TOP of the reduced stats, armor, and dps on the weapons. Sure, its better than greens, but with the expertise and dps changes along with 1.2, its really not any better than before. I am trying to shed some light on your cooldoodz punish the baddies mentality, but really I shouldn't even bother trying. And BW has heard the justly made cries for fairness, and are changing the rewards system again. Thankfully, your awesomeness will have to contend with us baddies getting our BM armor a little bit faster.... but hey don't worry, you'll probably be in war-hero by the time we are full BM.

Our side defended first, they managed to get past 3 doors. Our turn on offense came up, and we surprisingly did really well, caught them behind like sometimes happens, where they just aren't dying fast enough to respawn ahead of us, and couldn't catch up to our bomb planters on foot. We get to our fourth door (the red security screens before the last door and database), hack the screen and BAM. The warzone is over... we won. Why?? We still had 3 minutes left, probably could have hacked the database.... you know the whole POINT to that friggin WZ. Who cares if it wasn't necessary to actually win... I mean does the stated goal of the WZ no longer have any bearing?? This is the final proof to me that BW itself views their WZs as no more than a grind towards equipment, nothing more. If they want to trim some time off that WZ, eliminate their speeder trip into it. I heard that particular scene cost 300k in development, so like that won't ever happen I guess.

The difference being, I bet the new guy at work is at least given a computer to do his work with, or whatever equipment is needed in order to do the work same as everyone else. He may not have the experience or the familiarity to do it as WELL as the older workers, but his job wouldn't intentionally hamstring his efforts by giving him substandard working conditions.... would they??? You smell what I'm saying?? People who say they "work" for their gear make me LOL.... it really makes me wonder if they have ever done any real work in their lives, or played any kind of competitive sport in the real world. Only in the gaming world does it seem that the logic flows that he who has spent more time training, is given the best equipment when it comes time to compete, thus having not only the benefit of his time training (which no one and not I would begrudge him), but ALSO a completely arbitrary equipment advantage given to him.... why?? Oh yeah, cause he spent more time training. And like any one who has trained for anything competitive in their entire lives could surely tell you.... its only one small part of the overall effort of making yourself better at something. There's innate talent, intelligence (ability to learn new skills), etc. etc. But no, only in the gaming world must we reward those strictly based on time spent. GG

They burn people like you at the stake. But I agree with you.... but its totally heretical for you to even suggest that the lengthy time these so called pvpers spend playing this game is not rewarded with a hefty gear advantage over those who spent less time. And thats ALL it is.... more time. time time time time time.... not skill. Your TIME is what bought you the gear advantage. Sure, you may have shaved some time off your grind by getting in a premade of likeminded "pvpers" so you could wtfpwn earlier, but its only time. Gawd forbid we expect level playing fields and let skills and gameplay be our goal and fun.... no lets grind for gear instead. PvE creeping into an otherwise fun PvP environment... thanks alot DAOC!!!

He may be delusional, but he's not wrong. Just like in Rift, expertise needs to be baselined.... i.e. recruit suits have the same amount of expertise as war hero/BM, the only difference would be the other stats (which are in themselves substantial advantages). An additional 400 expertise on high levels is just a completely unecessary leg up for already better geared people....

I for one have never bothered testing any PvP on PTS because I have understood you have to level from 1 in order to get to lvl 50 PvP... no Character copy is yet available. The current 1.2 changes were not fully tested.... and while I did see people warning about the decrease in PvP awards prior to patch day, obviously not nearly enough complained and it fell on deaf ears. Not to mention all of the class changes, which were also complained about, but not by enough people and obviously not complained about to the right people to see them. So.... what has me really worried is that the 1.2 changes are peanuts compared to implementing something like rated warzones, and cross server warzones. Who's going to properly test all that crap, since they obviously don't PAY enough actual testers, nor suppy us as players with sufficient tools to do it for them (char copy or free 50s with full BM on the PTS server to test stuff)???? I think its fair to say that obviously they postponed rated WZs for this very reason... not enough testing. BW has a big problem imo

Well I hate to compare PvP in this game to an actual competitive sport, but bare with me a sec, this analogy I think may be helpful:: My son plays ice hockey, and there is a recreation league (rec. league), and there is a travel team. Rec. League is open to anyone, as long as they basically know how to skate, its where everyone learns to play hockey as a team. The kids develop basic skills, everyone is played equally (equal play time, better kids don't play longer). Its a family atmosphere, no one gets yelled at for blowing a play (these kids are 8 and under), losses are celebrated as much as wins. Then there is the travel team. Kids try out for it, there's only 12 slots for the single team. Its obviously much more competitive, the best kids make the team and play against teams from other rinks. Better kids will tend to get more ice time, kids are expected to follow the coach's rules and can get benched for not listening or not playing their positions. Its still fun (lots of fun), but much more is expected out of the travel team kids. PvP in this game is NOT the travel team. Well, at least not yet (no rated). Before 1.2, everyone who participated in Rec. league PvP got fairly well rewarded, sure winning gave you more, but even the losing team went home relatively happy. Sure there was the occasional "special" kid off in the corner making snowballs and still getting his participation trophy at the end, but by and large everyone was having fun even when they got trounced game after game. The new reduced awards for warzones goes against Rec. league spirit, which again is what we have been playing all along, Rec. League. If you really want scorched earth meager rewards for the losing team.... well great lets save that for Travel Team when it comes (whenever that is). Rated WZs can give zilch for rewards to a losing team for all I care... cause thats Travel Team mentality. If you want ultra-competitive loser gets nothing PvP, then its very clear to me that rated WZs are BUILT for that.... thats what RATED means, teams rated high get high rewards, teams at the bottom get nada. HOWEVER, current Rec. League warzones are all about participation, learning (and getting geared obviously), and losers need to get rewarded very well too. Why? Because the minimum level for participation in RATED WZs will obviously require full BM armor. Rated WZs=Travel Team, that's where participation is secondary and performance (winning) is primary. Trust me, you hardcore loser-gets nothing guys..... you want as many different teams signing up for rated WZs as possible, for the field of competition to be as WIDE as possible. And competition doesn't even begin until everyone is wearing mainly the same gear. BW, it seems to me that you accidentally put in the reduced awards that you would see in Rated WZs into current Rec. level PvP. I am sure that this an oversight on your part, and that you did not intend to punish Rec. players by treating them like they are in fact the Travel team. I have full confidence that this will be remedied, and Rec. League will once again be somewhat rewarding, and not a exercise in frustration (in relation to getting geared up).

Is THAT all it takes?!?!!? Wow, what a revelation!!! You are so right, I will not lose any more games from here on out, why didn't I think of that!!! And because I am 1 person, and there are 7 others on the team, I am sure that my single contribution and positive thinking of not losing any more will carry the day!! Oh but wait, what if there is a player on the OTHER team that also is stopping losing?? Oh crap, what happens then? Does it then go by who prays the hardest?? If G*d is for us, who could be against us?? What an original and well thought out reply.... stop losing.

A bunch of 10s on your team.... wait.... are you talking about 10-49 warzones??? Ummmm, seriously, come back when you've played 50 warzones for a few hours and I'll bet you feel different..... 1-49 warzones are a playground.

This is the most concise explanation of how the system should be implemented. All you "hardcore" who think losing should give you ZIP.... thats a great system I agree.... maybe for rated WZs. Not for solo queing PUG WZs which is what we mainly have now. P.S. Can't wait to see you "hardcore" complaining when you aren't getting any rated commendations... its easy to be hardcore when you already have the best equipment available. You'll be whining like us when the rated stuff is available.