Elracor
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Posts posted by Elracor
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And what about legacy 192 companion gear? Should I just merch them before KotFE goes live?
AFAIK the companion gear will just become legacy gear, so if you have a 55 alt you didn't bother leveling yet you can just put it on that alt once KotFE is out.
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I like the way you point something out that is bleeding obvious
That wasn't the point. The point I was making is from what we have seen server load seems to affected more by number of players / number of combat actions rather than number of instances. As many instances as you like doesn't seem to be a problem for this game. If number of instances were a concern we wouldn't have seen a design of game that throws instances at us left right and centre, and oodles of private instances as well. Just imagine for a second all these players running around during 12x how many instances are being created every minute, and the server doesn't so much as blink, it's actually very impressive. Now of course a small private instance isn't the same as a planet instance (before you make that point) but I don't believe number of instances would be a problem.
It's not about what causes the most effect. It's about this suggestion adding more work on top of all the combat action etc. We saw with SoR that the servers already get really pressured when there's new content, adding more instances will only make that worse.
Even if the servers can handle it, it's still a mechanic that makes the game more complex (chances are many/most players don't even know the world Instances exist) for what is IMO very little gain.
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But do we actually know how much of an overhead that actually creates (hint: we don't). I remembering seeing 17instances of rishi at launch and that didn't seem to cause any problems. Any problems we saw (e.g. ability delay) seemed to be entirely down to sheer number of people playing and therefore number of combat actions for the server to handle rather than number of instances. All the time the system is handling loads of private instances as well. I don't think 1 extra instance per planet would be that major an overhead. If that was a concern why would they have kept making new areas which required additional instances for the server to handle.
The 17 instances on Rishi were (likely) because the amount of players on Rishi warranted it. With KotFE you'd be having those ~17 instances on Zakuul/KotFE-planets AND at least 1 extra instance for each planets regardless of whether those instances are fully in use or not.
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Well in my opinion (and yes I know already you disagree) If they can't implement it properly, then they shouldn't implement it at all. Any of these issues you talk about are because of this new system. While this system has the potential to bring improvements, the game was just fine before.
No, the issues I talk about are because you require the system to be optional rather than forced.
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Im sure it might have issues, its coding but how stupid do you think they are? Do you give them credit enough to get it right as mandatory for every single player in the game?
Every single planet? Every single heroic area? Every single heroic instance? Every single quest that send you back to some low level planet and it all has less possible issues so go with forced on everyone?
There are too many potential issues for optional but not if forced? You give them enough credit to miraculously get forcing it right, but its to hard to make optional because of some potential issues?
I find your line of thinking really odd here. Probably nothing but, Why should BW do more, when they can get away with less. Gamers are victims of that label and BW is no different and since time and money is driving them, I'd say it makes it more plausible as to why there is no option to this.
Bugs and issues can always arise, but I think the gain in content is worth it. The optional part doesn't really give any additional content (to me anyway) and seems a lot more complex than just the Forced solution.
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I mentioned a possible reason why. The same reason gamers are labeled a path of least resistance group of people.
BW is no different. Why do more when you can do less.
Of course it plays in, but surely if there was an easy solution they'd implemented it? I'm just not seeing that easy solution, too many potential issues.
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Dromund Kaas/Tython are shown on the galaxy map as levels 10-16, so -- assuming level bands are the same as on Live -- Eric was at +2 for the Livestream. However, according to the blog, characters on Alderaan will be scaled to 32 -- +0 to planetary range limit (28-32, not counting Bonus Series).
It is possible they'll be tweaking the level ranges, or setting different de-level criteria for different planets. It'd be nice to get some more details.
Dromund Kaas has lvl 18 content AFAIK, if nothing else then the world boss. That could be tweaked of course.
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Eh? Your just being obtuse. People like level sync because it makes content relevant. If commanders were intended as high level content, nobody is going to have a problem turning off level sync to do that content.
That obviously depends on how easy it is to turn the sync on and off and still keep it exploit free. It also still doesn't really handle the PvP aspect of it as I see it.
Your still being being obtuse. We've already accepted there would be compromise in making it optional. Not wanting level sync has never been about being able to kill some commanders, I never saw that from anybody as a reason for not wanting level sync. I suggest a compromise solution which would allow the level sync to be optional, and you throw it back as 'well that wouldn't be optional then would it'. Fine let me kill the commanders then while level sync is turned off, I won't offer that compromise. Oh but then that would be open to abuse so we can't do that either. So in other words I can't win with you whatever I say.At this point I'm beyond debating each point with you. I get it, you want this system. I don't. We disagree. Can we just leave it at that.
The Commanders are only an example. Insert whatever other highlvl mobs (GSI) or future events and the problem grows. This turning lvl sync on and off still comes down to how easy it can be done without being exploitable.
Oh my god. I said I wouldn't just automatically believe what they said if they didn't explain it. Do you take everything you are told at face value? Your nieve if you do.
Oh I get it now, your actually just trolling me now. Well played. You can't actually believe what you typed.
What are earth are you on about. At no point have I suggested or in any way believe the developers are doing this maliciously, that is an utterly absurd suggestion. This was only ever about providing feedback to say is there way this could be made optional
Your in favour of this system, I'm not. We disagree. I really really really don't want to be endlessly debating this issue. Lets just agree we disagree and leave it at that.
What else would it be then? If the Devs don't give you Optional sync and you won't believe they don't do it for a good reason without explaining so, what other alternative is there but that they're not giving you this feature and have no good reason for not giving you said feature.
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Will adding a toggle (assuming they can avoid the dire consequences that are predicted...
) annoy you? I'm currently playing SWTOR because I like it, and I don't want that to go away. Levelsync will make me like it less.
Of course not, if they can add a toggle or a similarly smart feature without causing issues I'm all for it. However, if they could that why would they not already have done so?
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Different world/planet/map instances are in the game. The ability to split people out into different instances of the same content is in the game. The ability to pick different destinations from a terminal or shuttle door or elevator door or "exit area" function is in the game. The ability to choose which mode you do (solo, story, hard, nightmare, tactical, whatever in each particular case) when you start a Flashpoint is already in the game.
So? They'd still need to make up to twice as many instances on every planet to do it that way with up to twice as many mobs etc. for the server to handle.
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But a massive change to the game that takes what is most likely a year so they can force down leveling is somehow worthwhile to implement as a forced mechanic on everyone but making it optional if it takes a while isn't worthwhile?
Tell me I misunderstood you.
Well you don't really know how much time they used on this feature.
That said, I still prefer level sync over not level sync even if it's mandatory. I get others don't prefer this but I do.
It's less an assumption, and more giving them the benefit of the doubt as to their basic competence.And that assumes this feature can be done with "basic competence"...
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We have class quests and planet quests, GSI and whatever and there all marked easily enough. No reason to think BW is that incapable.
No feel fine to think they can do it. It's just not proof that they can. My point is rather that if they could do it without causing issues why wouldn't they?
No at that point depending on how you would have it to be handled, I'd have the Voss boss type buff. If you are not in the pulling group, you auto DIE. No griefing or cheesing allowed.
Thats where that voss buff comes in again thats already in the game. Kills them outright in their not in the group.
The griefing mechanic once again for voss is very effective to stop griefing. Why BW doesn't use it more is beyond me.
It's effective because it is 1-2 mobs. We don't know how well it works if pretty much all heroic/planetary mobs have this buff. It also discourages actually helping.
A non-synced lvl 65 could pull an important group and just permatank them, if the actually-playing groups hit the mobs they instadie.
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So send people who WANT to be levelsynced to one instance of the planet, and the people who DON'T want to be levelsynced to a separate instance of the planet.
We already have that -- ever notice what happens when the planet you're on has too many people, and you end up with that list of Planet(1), Planet(2), etc, at the lower right corner of your map?
What would be wrong with splitting things up that way?
And that assumes said Instances can be locked depending on the Sync buff and that having potentially twice as many instances won't cause server issues.
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I used those as an example of stats being adjusted by differing amounts for the people in the same area (people are different level)
I then notice you completely ignored the more important example of makeb where you have both people with adjusted stats and those without their stats adjusted in the same area AND it's toggle-able.
People are different level but their 'Combat level' is the same. We can't yet assume the same will be the case for levelsync.
I didn't ignore the Makeb one, I stated that "none of the bolsters", which includes the Makeb one, changes your level. The Makeb one doesn't even change your 'Combat Level'.
Nice cherry picking your points to counter there.
But the point is why are we even having this discussion/argument. It's for Bioware to implement not us, I'm more interested in people justifying why they would or wouldn't be against this being a toggle, rather than if it can actually be done.
But that's the thing. The main reason IMO not to implement it would be rooted into Bioware ability to implement it. There are not many reasons against getting stuff like addtional Operations, Warzones or features like Cross server except Biowares ability to implement them.
If Bioware can implement it in a fast and smart way, sure go ahead.
If it require massive changes to the game, can cause issues like the ones I've described and will take a year to implement then I don't think it's worthwhile.
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Not really. Just have the missions tied to the down leveling debuff. Lose the debuff, lose the missions. The only exploitable part is if they "F" up coding but since they have something similar in bolster and GSI, it shouldnt be this over the top task.
That assumes they can make such a connection between buff and mission. It also creates the need for having 2 sets of missions, one for syncers and one for nonsyncers.
Use the same formula they use for mobs that spawn on who hits them. Make it spawn on the highest level that ever hits them once pulled though.That doesn't make any sense? Say a lvl 28 pulls it, it's lvl 28. A lvl 65 hits it, you then want it to change level after being pulled?
Or they spawn to the highest level of the group. Would stop a low level pulling and a high level killing. Multiple ways to solve that issue.The high level can just be outside the group. It also doesn't solve the issue for players logging highlvl toons because they're not good enough to do it on-level toons, there's been a few stating this issue in this thread.
Hell, add in that mechanic for the boss fight that if someone else tries to grief you and not in your group, let it auto kill them as well. Most of that is already in the game in some capacity.The grief mechanic works both ways though and will hurt people who are legitimately trying to help.
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I'm armchair dev because I understand math? What level sync and GSI on makeb is nothing more than an algorithm. Than again I doubt you can add 2+2 so for me to fully explain it is pointless. I'll try and use small words for you.
Belittling me doesn't help you here. You're still making assumptions about the Level sync without having any grounds for it.
If the boss does not see the presents of the "buff" when it dies no level sync rewards. It not a one time check. Every time a mob attacks a player or a player attacks a mob all the player stats and mob stats are compared. Hard to exploit it. If you don't meet the requirement at the end of the fight you don't get the rewards. You get the rewards that you meet requirement. Sorry there is no way to exploit a toggle.Again, you assume the boss can do this "seeing the buff" and affect the rewards without having grounds for it. You don't know how the engine works. You don't know how many (if any) changes need to be implemented (and tested) for this to actually work. That's why this is Armchair Dev in the works.
Even the current bolsters have been exploitable to some degree, just ask in the PvP forum. Concluding there's no way to exploit the toggle without even seeing it or its implementation is just naive.
Then why didn't you quit the game ? it's been like this since the start of star wars and it didn't bother you that you're not level synced ?Well I did quit the game but not for that reason. I'm currently playing SWTOR because I like it. Level sync will make me like it more. Adding Level sync and suddenly removing it for very little reason would annoy me.
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Then remove level sync and it solves everything.
Again, that is a solution I don't agree with and seemingly many others here don't agree with.
Optional > Mandatory > No-lvl-sync-at-all.
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I waiting for that. There are a few things we could point to. We have examples from bolster in warzones to tactical flashpoints to show than people of different levels can have their stats adjusted by different ammounts.
But more importantly we have the Makeb bolster to show that peoople can exist in the same same environment while some of them have their stats adjusted, while others don't (those who didn't switch on the bolster)
Essentially all we are talking about here is the reverse. Some people having their stats lowered while others don't.
Of course I don't know but I think based on what we have seen before it reasonable to believe it is plausible
As far as I know the Bolster in Warzones and Tactical flashpoints are not toggles and the feature you are asking for is a toggle. I'm also pretty sure none of the current bolsters (not even Tact Fp) changes your actual level (assuming 'Combat level' is not the same as level since it's named 'Combat level' and not just level).
I actually didn't know about this as I don't do conquest. I suppose there are a number of options here, they could leave them as high level (so you turn off level sync when doing conquest), make them unattackable by people with level sync turned off, or even go the whole hog and have people with level sync turned off go into a different instance (like we get multiple instances on planets already). They could have them as high level in the level sync off instance and lower level in the sync on instance. Or maybe people who actually do conquest and understand the system can come up with something better.
Would you believe in 100 something pages this is the first time I've seen something mentioned that could actually be slightly complicated by level sync being optional, but ways round it are not insurmountable.
Leaving Commanders and Outpost guards at high level will just reverse the issue, forcing people who do want to level sync to not do so.
Making them unattackable by non-syncers still doesn't solve the problem of Sync being optional, you're forced to use Sync to take part in this part of the game.
Throwing non-syncers into a different instance doesn't solve the issue either IMO. Either it leaves room for exploits (you boosting lowlvls to get e.g. Commanders and Outpost guards much easier than intended for easy rewards) or that you can't help people because they won't get rewards.
It also makes the whole instancing system more complex and will require mobs (again mainly Commanders and Outpost Guards) to have different levels depending on the type of instance.
Does it matter? If a couple of friends want to work together and game the system like this, so what. MMO's have a long history of people playing outside the box, good luck to them, doesn't bother me. If it really is though to be a problem, then guess we are back to separate instance for those with sync off.
I think it does matter. It leaves room for exploiting and gaining lvl 65 relevant gear (+ credits and Basic comms) with much less effort than intended.
Your asking lots of questions that I don't really care about. I'm bothered about existing playstyles not being taken away, where you seem to be looking towards how people will abuse (if you see it like that) the new system.
You might not care about those things but I bet the Devs do. If the new system becomes a source of abuse (e.g. credit farming) it becomes an issue for pretty much all players.
You misunderstood what I meant. Perhaps I should have said "It would need a very good explanation from a dev
for me to accept it as actually true". Of course they don't have to explain anything, but then I don't have to believe them either.
Well if people don't want to believe the Devs I'm not sure what they can do about it. As I see it, you're basically assuming they're maliciously keeping you from getting the features you want which is IMO unreasonable. I'm sure the Devs want to please as many players as possible inside the boundaries they're given by management.
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Different yes, show they have the technology to make it toggle. They didn't make Makeb blanket GSI buff they made it toggle by clicking a item. You can take level sync algorithm and attach it to a terminal you click. That is the point I'm making. Makeb GSI is nothing more than an algorithm; just like level sync is nothing more than an algorithm.
And now we enter Armchair Dev territory...
Lets go on with your example anyway. Say it's added a toggle like the GSI buff. The GSI buff can be removed with a rightclick. This opens op for abuse as you could then just initiate combat with the buff, then turn it off and kill your target (e.g. the last boss in a H4) easily.
That means they need to implement a lot of exploit prevention and test it.
Alternatively if you can't turn off the toggle we're basically back to mandatory territory again.
It also doesn't solve the issue of having mobs like Commanders who should(?) be killable with levelsync yet without being exploitable by non-lvl-syncers.
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But it is feasible.
Toggle buff: Makeb GSI. It raise your gear to 162 if you have greater than 162 than if doesn't effect.
Mobs that recognize what is attacking it: every flashpoint boss only drops gear related to what AC is fighting it.
If you combine the two dev could make toggle level sync.
They have proven that they have the technology to do it ability to do it. Its dev making a bad decision which they won't own up to. They wait and wait and in a year from now they will their heads out of their asses fix it. Lets face it. Dev are only human and do make mistakes. The only issue is SWTOR dev team ability to fix mistakes takes them years. Look at conquest. Over a year of complaint about crafting and they give us a half *** fix.
That is a different system with a vastly different outcome. Makeb GSI does not change your level, only your gear.
Consider my previous example:
My guess is that current MaxLvl stuff like Outpost guards and Conquest Commanders will be reduced to the Sync Max Level (e.g. 32 on Alderaan) to adapt to the Level sync changes. With Level sync being optional in this guess, surely they'd need some way of these MaxLvl toons to adapt level depending on who attacks it?
Mission rewards can possibly be turned off but what about mission+loot rewards for others? Say a lowlevel hits the mob and the 65 finishes the mob off. How would this be handled? Can this be handled?
Makeb GSI is something completely different compared to the issues in this (albeit guesswork) example.
Yea so wearing level 40 green gear will still be the same as it will be over the levels and you get the same stats.Again, that is another assumption of yours. We know that lvl 40 green gear and 60 HM gear bolsters differently, why would the gear not level sync differently?
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So what does it do when i am reduced to level 28 green gear ?
Nothing it's the same as wearing level 50 green gear.
Again, that your gear is reduced to "level 28 green gear" is an assumption of yours. The Combat log states your gear is adjusted down. A current mechanic, Bolster, does the opposite as it adjusts your gear UP and we know different gear is bolstered differently with Bolster.
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So what does better equipment (Level 65 nightmare gear) do for you on alderaan ?
Absolutely nothing, you're down scaled to level 28 and your gear is obsolete.
So no you don't get better equipment, your equipment stays the same on the planet, you don't get better you stay the same.
There are no levels = no gear levels = no gear = gear is only for looks.
That nightmare gear does nothing for you on Alderaan is an assumption of yours. What gear you're currently using definitely matters when you're being Bolstered, I don't see why it wouldn't matter for Level sync as well. You obviously don't get the full power of the gear, but I'll bet that a player on Alderaan with 55 greens will be (a bit) less powerful than a player with 65 NiM.
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No they aren't. They are asking players in game, if they are new, returning, or current.
I have yet to see them specifically asking for current subs specifically.
Again you can be just as guilty, intentionally or not. Only difference between our links here and what they are doing is the credits.
Also anything bought on the cartel has to wait to be sold on the GTN 24 hours, so they thought of this somewhat, already.
Oh do point me in the direction of the players who will pay 300k or more for a non-sub to click a referral link. There is zero logic to that transaction since they only gain 600CC if the player subscribes and the only way to be sure of that is if they're currently a subscriber.
All the players I've seen ask for referrals clicks with credit rewards on ToFN and TRE are specifically asking for current subs.
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Probably not but getting to max level and enjoying that process only to have that removed (down scaled) every time you go to an old planet isn't satisfactory all the time either for players.
I get that, but surely the point of this thread is to convince BW to implement a better solution and not a worse one?
) annoy you?
Level synch = Revival of SWTOR
in General Discussion
Posted · Edited by MFollin
It's irrelevant whether you accept it or not. It's how the game is set up. Events, planetside or in instances, happens at certain points in the Star Wars Legends timeline and that's just how it is.