AJediKnight
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Posts posted by AJediKnight
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I agree. If a game only begins at max level, then it wasn't much of a game in the first place.
"the journey is half the fun" as they say.
That simply isn't true, even if people like you repeat it a thousand times a day. The fact of the matter is that with MMOs, a lot of people roll just a main, and that's it. A handful more put together 2-3 max level characters. Very rare is the bird who does more than that... and nothing in TOR is going to change that fact.
When you talk about what endgames in themeparks are like -- a pile of dailies, gear grinds, raids, etc. -- there is little time to work on more than 2-3 characters simultaneously (and if you're a PvPer on server where your faction stinks, then good luck even finishing one set of dailies per 24-hour period).
The the problem with TOR right now is that not only is the game's overwhelming focus on a story that comes to a screeching halt at 50, but that there very little value at all in repeating the process. You can't even shake up questing by mixing in different planets or going in a slightly different order -- every single character follows precisely the same straight line from 10-50, with the occasional little variance in the form of a smattering of class quests. Add to this the fact that even on high-pop servers, the questing worlds are virtually dead, giving a player little hope of completing the ridiculous number of group quests, or bumping into the scattered few members of the opposing faction around, and you have a recipe for monotony.
So, we have a game that A) doesn't have a lot to offer at endgame, B) doesn't have a lot to offer for a person repeating the standard game, and C) isn't doing much at all to change these things.
And you people wonder why this sucker is hemorrhaging subs?
*Edit* Oh, the OP was Sarfux. Well, gee, what a shock. Nothing to see here, folks. Move along.
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It was 'filler' for me between two big breaded wedges of WoW, as it turns out. I resubbed yesterday, and to say that Warcraft is a dramatically better game that TOR would be a massive understatement.
If...
WoW
TOR
WoW
...equals an MMO burger, I'm afraid I'm left asking 'where's the beef?'
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Successful MMOs don't need to go F2P. For true MMOers, a F2P game is a game that failed to live up to the hype, or even turn a profit. It is in every sense of the word a failed product.
So, uh, yeah, I think TOR will definitely be F2P shortly!
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Traveling through space is an exciting part of the Star Wars™: The Old Republic™ experience. Not only will you navigate the stars to visit new planets, but you can also choose to undertake critical missions in the depths of space where you'll maneuver through chaotic asteroid fields, blast enemy fighters, and engage in epic, large-scale fleet battles reminiscent of those from the classic Star Wars™ films.
In keeping with the original Star Wars films, the Space Combat system in Star Wars: The Old Republic is designed to make travel times literally fly-by, while combat runs and space battles put you in the pilot's seat for a fast-paced and highly cinematic experience. Like Luke Skywalker in the original assault on the Death Star, you'll also discover that even a lone starship can change the course of galactic history.
Neutral. Travel times in the ship fly by. Running through an orbital station to a shuttle to actually get to the planet erases that benefit. Space combat lives up to the words above but it's still pretty "meh" IMO.
I want to pick this apart.
Travel times in the ship fly by.Orly owl says hello. You consider starport run -> loadscreen -> run through ship -> galaxy map -> flight time -> run through ship -> loadscreen -> run through starport a travel time that 'flies by?' Or perhaps you meant that shuttle -> space dock -> space dock portal -> load screen -> run through ship -> galaxy map -> flight time -> run through ship -> loadscreen -> space dock portal -> space dock -> shuttle was the quicker path to fulfillment?
How can anyone in their right mind claim that travel time in SW:TOR is anything even resembling rapid? In fact, the travel legs are so unrelentingly painful that my gametime is literally spent bouncing between three warzones and the claustrophobic space station. The mere thought of enduring an agonizing galactic trip to see another empty world is all the reason I need to stay boxed up on Vaiken all day long.
Space combat lives up to the words aboveIt in no way, shape or form lives up to the words above. How are our actions altering galactic history? I mean, lordy, when it comes to the copy-and-pasted space battles you see 2-3 times while leveling, it seems like history is actually repeating itself! Not only are the battles an on-rail joke, but they're carbon copies of something I did 10 levels ago! You'd think that, had my character made such a big contribution to history, we wouldn't be re-fighting the same encounter three different times.
I find your efforts to defend this shabby product offensive to the eyes and wholly wanting. You have failed.
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My favorite 180 was that hilarious dev blog from William Wallace from like a year and a half ago which talks about sandbox and themepark design.
Anyways, the hilarious part was when he actually boasted that TOR will walk a middle road between the two MMO types.
Hahaha, really funny, William!
I just tried to dig up the dev blog but Bioware took it down, lol.
My favorite was when they flat-out claimed that boss fights wouldn't revolve around multiple players beating on a loot pinata for 20 minutes. Yeah... they really saw that vision through.
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"Failstar, you've already gone through a lot together so don't let Qyzen Fess down. Log back into the game to continue your discovery of the galaxy with Failstar or another hero."
So, I get sending e-mails out for folks who are unsubscribed, but this one confuses me. I've decided to take a break from playing until 1.2 since I burnt myself out. Still paying for the sub, not terribly concerned.
Why am I being encouraged to log back in when I'm still paying though? O.o;;...It's my money..I'll log in when I please?
Wow... that's tiptoeing around the borders of harrassment. I mean, as a paying customer, don't you have an expectation to choose your own play times, and not get hit with ads?
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Now I don't think BioWare has "lost it."
Personally I don't think they "had it" too begin with.
Basically this.
I was never a believer -- never to the degree I was in, say, Blizzard prior to WoW. Bioware has produced some good single player games, but this forray into the realm of the multiplayer has demonstrated that their talents are limited to what they have experience in. And, even then, I think a lot of their single-player work was stilted and pandering.
This article should be a red flag to anyone who thinks the game is still enjoying some kind of record growth period.
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Yeah....because over 3 million in sales and subs is tanking.
There are not anywhere even near to 3 million subs. There aren't even half that number. You are living in a fantasy land.
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YES.
i love the cover system they have for smuggler and IA
i love the range tanking system they have
NO cross relm lfg system finally a game atm that dosent have it
Love the CTN SW style ( make WOW look like total crap)
This game with the story line is fantastic .. it can get old after 3-4 time out side story line but thats what space bar system was put in for.
Compaion affection system to futher create immersion is cool to
and best part is IT'S NOT WARCRAFT. you can say its a clone all you want but its not.
i am glad SWTOR got game of the year award and hopefull its get it for 2012.
P.S. LFR guilds dont matter and oyu can keep your Panda monk wont even think about wow till mist of pandear is at least over and next expansion is out
This, ladies and gentlemen, is SWTOR.
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No.
I think this has been a great game, leveling, lore, graphics, etc has been amazing. However once you hit 50 you are stuck with:
- Endless loading screens, elevators, useless orbital stations, etc
- A lackluster galactic market interface where it takes dozens of clicks to find anything (Why can't you just let people search for items by name???)
- A broken professions system where anything except Bio is practically worthless. Who wants to make pants, implants, etc that are outdated by HMFP gear? Also the fact it takes an hour to make an item for a friend/guildie?? This really hampers trade in general.
- Once again Endless Loading Screens, by far my biggest gripe has to do with the dozens of loading screens it takes to get anywhere
- A lack of UI customization
- Poor republic populations. On most planets there are barely a handful of people, and even on 'moderately' populous nights the republic fleet doesn't feel like swtor warrants the Massively Multi-player part of MMORPG.
- PvP dominated by stun-locks and a perhaps broken resolve system? I can't begin to count the number of times I've been stunned and burned down with a full resolve bar.
- Most of the years of development apparently went into the pre-50 stuff, class stories, lore, interactive quests, dialog, etc. Once you hit 50 almost all that disappears and you are stuck with everything I mentioned above
Myself and my guild feel much the same, and most of us have stopped playing entirely, or canceled, aside from a few last ditch efforts to run operations.
The sad thing is, I have a lot of guildies who have never even played WoW, and are convinced that TOR is a triple-A MMO. I keep trying to explain to them that, no, auction houses on other MMOs don't work this badly; no, you haven't been able to be stunlocked to death in an MMO I've played since the days of vanilla; no, I've never seen this many loadscreens in my life -- like, the sum total of all the loadscreens I have *ever* seen in all the games I have played tallied together don't equal what I have experienced in 2 months with TOR. But it's difficult to get the point across when their frame of reference is so skewed.
To address the overall thread, however, my answer is a resounding no and, what's more, I have unsubbed from TOR, and resubbed to WoW, a game I haven't played since March of '11. It's really a sad state of affairs to be honest -- I had a bad feeling about TOR after the first beta weekend, but went ahead and followed through on the CE because I wanted so desperately for the game to be a hit, something that my wife will likely never let me live down, given that I am cancelling after 60 days and dropped something on the order of $190 on this sucker. To put that in perspective, I got more playtime out of a shipwreck like Pirates of the Burning Sea than I did TOR for 1/4th the money paid out. That is a wretched return on my investment.
I love Star Wars -- even shabby Ep. I & II -- but I can't excuse the travesty that is this game. Every time I see a black core lightsaber, or (this would happen if I kept playing, although the mere thought of it induces the following reaction) spot a Sith Pureblood Jedi, my stomach goes into knots. What's worse than the lore issues, however, are the unbelievable and apparently unfixable gameplay fumbles that affect quality of life. From the bad UI, to the broken engine, to the lack of MMO conventions like damage meters or even combat logs, to the incredibly-long and inexcusably-frequent load screens, to the horrendous state of both PvP combat and the manner in which PvP gear is earned, TOR is fraying at the seams in a hundred different ways.
I knew within the first week or two that things were doomed for a number of specific reasons. The following three were telling:
- The fact that NMs were on farm status in under 20 days. How the hell does that happen? This is supposedly the flagship content at 50, and it's facerollable even on the highest difficulty setting? Game over for the hardcore players (if they could get past the lack of a combat log in the first place, which was probably a sticking point for most).
- The fact that, if you're a PvPer, the gear progression was (and still is, but to a lesser degree) a random crapshoot, with some players getting geared in a matter of days, and others taking months to reach the same mark, even if the same effort was expended. How the hell does a system like that even *make* it into an MMO these days? Or ever, for that matter?
- The fact that the game was built primarily around a story that ends. Like it or not, MMOs are about the endgame, and the chief investment in this MMO was a story that... dries up at endgame? Oh, that's smart, smart design, Biofail.
This game is a house of cards built on top of a sandcastle, with the tide coming in, and a hurricane offshore, right before an 8.0 earthquake hits. It will be a miracle on par with the birth of Christ himself if this thing isn't F2P in 18 months. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if that changeover hits a long, long time before that.
So, yeah, as I said, I resubbed to WoW today. I didn't want to do it, and I'm not having the best time ever. But man oh man, after 7 years, Blizzard's game is still a more cutting-edge project than this stinker. What a shame.
I'll never buy another Bioware product again.
- Endless loading screens, elevators, useless orbital stations, etc
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I'm glad there's a pricetag. The fewer of those ugly things you see in the game, the better.
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Only 38% of the level 50 player base raid. Of those what percent do you think are "hard core"?
I don't (well, 'didn't' now, since I've cancelled and will not be coming back) raid in this game not because I am incapable (I raided since the Ony/MC days of early WoW), but because I have been utterly underwhelmed by the PvE experience as a whole. Over half the bosses in the game are nothing more than simple tank-and-spanks and, what's more, many of the dungeons are clogged to the gills with pull after pull of needless, horrendous trash.
Step it up to nightmare mode, and things that are 'a little broken' in normal raids become night-ending bugs. I once listened to my guild over mumble wipe on a NM encounter for over three hours, not because they couldn't get the mechanics of the fight down, but because a random bug kept cropping up and wiping them. It happened again and again, to the point where the pain in their voices was palpable. It was like the C'thun bug all over again, only, in a way, a thousand times worse, simply because, had the bugs not been there, then the NM content would have been utterly facerollable.
Like the OP, I can't take the raiding scene in TOR seriously, and I laugh when people tell me that they're big into operations. But, given the fact that my 'night' in PvP has essentially been reduced to a trio of WZ wins before logging, both facets of the game are dead to me. I'm going back to WoW.
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MMO'S are not for you.,
Or, just maybe, this one bad MMO is not for him.
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Ever get the feeling you're in a bad M. Night movie, dreading patch 1.2 cause there has to be a BioWare twist?
It's why I unsubbed. Different is almost never better when the best way to do things was already established long ago. It's like throwing square tires on a bus and claiming you've made improvements. You've changed things up, certainly, but hardly for the best.
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Everytime I see one of these I have to ask: Why are you here?
Maybe, just maybe, he cares about Star Wars and doesn't like seeing it get sold down the river to make a cheap buck?
A more applicable question is: why are you here? If nothing matters, then shouldn't you find WoW's pandas and pokemon combination thoroughly stimulating?
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When a BioWare RPG starts to whore out the lore to keep people playing, you know its gone south.
The lore was already haunting the streetcorners in a bad part of town when black-core lightsaber crystals made their debut. The Jedi Sith Purebloods takes us to the natural final expression of such behavior -- our lady of the night is now stepping out of the backseat of a car with smudged makeup and a crisp hundred dollar bill tucked into her gaudy belt.
Ah, but the night is still young.
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Don't bother OP. You will be assailed with the ridiculous argument that "there will always be some of a race that crosses sides"(and they will all be on fleet at the same time I presume?) or "it's just fluff, let people play how they want!".
I am really disappointed that so few in this community give a poop about the integrity of the game, and having faction identity.
All the more reason to hope it fails. I know I do. I want TOR to be a message to the MMO community at large that you can't dump 150 million into a title, design and manage it like crap, and expect to make a dent it a well-designed, well-managed (mostly) product like WoW.
Frankly, I think most serious gamers left TOR after their 30 days were up. The 'mass support' you're seeing for these changes on this forum is largely coming from the lowest common denominator; the dregs, if you will, which is all that's left.
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All I see is stuff that should have been in at release.
Pretty much this. Oh, and a lot of stuff nobody was asking for, too. Pureblood Jedi? Lame. Absolutely lame.
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You seemed to have missed off the last 3 letters every time you said MMO for starters... RPG!
MMOs are not just about endgame, they have just been conditioned this way, more and more prevalent in games such as WoW where levelling is just a trivial, "it was here when we made the game so you'll have to deal with it even tho we don't care about it"
There is nothing roleplaying about the story in TOR, sorry. Roleplaying would mean that I choose my character's backstory; where they go in the universe; what decisions they make, etc. Roleplaying is not being handed a 'choose your own adventure' book and having to select between three answers every couple of pages, 99% of which send you to precisely the same result regardless of what you pick.
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They want you to see most of the story lines.
Okay... why? That's not what MMOs are about. Hell, that's not even what this MMO is about. Just because Bioware says story is important doesn't suddenly mean that that's suddenly true. A lot of people don't want to face that grind again -- even once. And, make no mistake, 10% of 'unique' class story (especially in the cases where that story has been almost universally panned [consular or BH anyone?]) doesn't justify for a large group of people spending weeks pushing an alt to 50.
MMOs are about endgame. You may wish it wasn't so (and Bioware may scream it in your collective ears), but that doesn't change the reality of the situation one bit.
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No, I don't "see what I did there". I think a lot of you forum lurkers need to get out in the world and understand how rational people engage in argument, and stop believing the internet rule that says you can just throw out a meme and WIN, or that there is never a possibility to arrive at some kind of truth simply because people have opinions.
Owned.
Anyone capable of making even the most minor rational connections, and who has played MMOs for a while, KNOWS that developers separate factions using races...that is a long, accepted and understood concept in MMOs. Sure there are exceptions, but I don't have to read the minds of all the MMO developers in the world to use a WIDELY ACKNOWLEDGED AND ACCEPTED reality as a basis for an argument.Truth.
As to whether Bioware has to follow the path or not...if you are going to break something that works, you had better do it for a good reason, and have something to replace and fulfill the function it previously held, neither of which is the case here.Yup. Nobody was screaming for Jedi Sith Purebloods. I think that was so far into the realm of the surreal that no rational person would ever ask for it. In essence, Bioware is satisfying an unbelievably small minority of people out of touch with reality in this choice. It should not be available.
So yes, I do think Bioware has an obligation to stop screwing around and throwing solid game mechanics out the window simply to provide "perks" because they are too lazy to create meaningful and original content.Bazinga.
Tera pulls into the harbor in less than 60 days, folks. Yes, it's hardly the most innovative thing in the world, but I'd kill for a conventional approach to MMOs at this point. I'm utterly exhausted with 'give the people what they want,' particularly when 'the people' don't even exist.
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I LOL'ed hard at this....
So you came to a Story based MMO expecting the PVP to be better than any other PVP out there....You came to a Story based MMO with no Intention of PVE'ing, and think its aweful, when it's no different to any other MMO..:
I cam to an MMO expecting the PvP to be on par with that in other MMOs.
This game doesn't get some kind of free pass for bad content because it emphasizes story. Sorry. That isn't how it works.
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I can't speak for PvEers because, quite frankly, I find the PvE in TOR absolutely attrocious. However, with the arrival of 1.1.5 and the innevitable immediate death of all things Ilum, the game for PvPers will be essentially reduced to:
1) One circular space station (which is a virtual clone of the other faction's circular space station).
2) Three warzones.
That's it.
Frankly, how in God's name does that constitute the 'MASSIVELY' in an MMORPG? We don't have factional capitals to visit (or raid -- remember city raids in other games? Good times. NOT SO HERE!); we don't have planetary objectives to seize (NO, the empty place on Tat does not count); and we don't have any conceivable reason to even go to Ilum anymore. Our days will revolve around milling about near the PvP vendors waiting for a queue to pop, stepping into a random WZ, winning or losing, and then requeuing or logging.
FUN TIMES.
I'll be honest in that I feel cheated by this entire experience. Nothing about the endgame for PvPers feels immersive or important and, what's worse, the experience appears to be getting worse with time. I'd love to know what exactly you've got planned to extricate us from this claustrophobic prison, Bioware, but since I already know that this answer is "NOTHING!" I figured there was no reason to even ask.
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This seems like a complete waste to me. Why not engage people directly here on the forums? I mean, good lord, every week you see multiple 100+ page threads, sometimes rolling over into 2, 3 or even 4 iterations of themselves, and yet there is never so much as a peep from the development team that the message has been heard.
The only people who are going to be present at this summit are 1) those who already live in Austin, and 2) those who have the money and time, in the midst of the worst economic crisis in the past half a century, to fly cross-country over a video game. I don't feel like either group properly represents me or my concerns.
What's with the fascination
in General Discussion
Posted · Edited by AJediKnight
Are you lost?
This is an MMO. It isn't some stupid single-player game. Of course people are going to demand more from it, because A) they are shelling out cash monthly to continue playing, and B) there are other games out there that have reams of things to do in their endgames.
And yes, every game has a finite amount of content. The expectation of a developer of a good MMO is to structure that content in such a way that the majority of players never see and do it all. It's not a perfect system, and you'll be left with a handful of completionists who complain that their pitiful group of raiders can't handle the hardest stuff, but the alternative (like what we have here) -- with wholly facerollable nonsense that can be wrapped up in a week -- is no better.
Bioware utterly failed in terms of what it takes to put together a successful MMO. Nobody should be hitting the cap in your game for at least two months post launch -- even if that means the leveling arc is a grindy beast because of it. Why? Because the bread and butter of MMOs is the endgame, and you want people to take their sweet time in getting to that endgame so you can properly populate it with crap to do. WoW didn't have most of its endgame in place at launch, but most people didn't have a 60 after three weeks, either.
Additionally, today's MMOers who aren't satisfied with WoW (which is who Bioware should have been trying to go after, since people satisfied with what WoW does obviously aren't going to quit it for a shabby copy of Blizzard's product) are looking for more things to do at endgame than simply raiding, grinding WZs or rerolling. To give some examples, people would like: player housing, a real RvR setting, guild capital ships, world PvP objectives, crafting that actually works, interactable features that encourage RP (sittable chairs, anyone?), and the list goes on. TOR features none of these things at endgame... and the only answer that Bioware and their junkies can come up with is... reroll?
Right... yeah, that's going to unseat WoW. Definitely.