AJediKnight
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Posts posted by AJediKnight
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Exactly, there are countless Role Playing and what not Reasons as to why a Jedi would use Red just as there are as to why a Sith would wield Blue or Green.
Absolutely. Red has always been the traditional color of life itself. Red dragons; red armbands, etc -- all associated with the blood that we closely link to living things. Red is strong and powerful, but it can also bestow guardianship and protection. It is a ward against death itself, whose color is black. Black is difficult to assign noble attributes to, but red is hardly some festering malignancy of a color. In fact, I think red is just as 'good' (or bad) as green and blue. It really depends on how you see the world.
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What's funny is that he goes on to say that Sith choose Red as a natural preference. Well, THIS Sith natural preference would be to use Blue because it represents his Cold Hearted Nature, or naturally prefers Green to indicate that he is Greedy. THIS Jedi natural preference would be to use Red to show he has Courage and Leadership.
Green can also symbolize disease, rot, plague, and a myriad of other bad things. It's not all leaves and grass and sunshine.
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If you'd bothered to actually read my posts, I never said any color would be UNEQUIPPABLE. My argument is that in the Star Wars universe, one would NEVER see the amount of cross alignment/faction color swapping that we are bound to see if Bioware makes this change.
They are currently and should be unequippable in SWTOR because it is a game and we need certain barriers in place to prevent things from getting completely out of control clown school style.
It's already completely out of control. I see more Sith wielding green and blue than I do red. Part of this is most certainly due to 'special flower' syndrome, but another large portion can likely be attributed to the fact that the current system forces a lot of Sith to abandon traditional red almost immediately upon hitting 10. Same thing for Jedi with green/blue.
Since I am not in favor of additional restrictions (nor would the playerbase support it -- rest assured that you and your vocal minority [the "choice thieves"] are a very, very small group of woodland bandits, living beyond the bounds of normal society), then the only solution to the current problem is to remove all restrictions. This is an MMO -- freedom of choice and the freedom to RP the character you want should be paramount over the hand-wringing of a miniscule collection of purists (who cannot, for the matter, even agree on what constitutes "pure").
You guys lost. The change train is coming. Get on or get gone.
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The idea that he was already acting in the role of Vader, fought with a blue lightsaber, thus Sith use blue lightsabers is really a bananas type argument.
I take it you've never seen Episode III? The moment Anakin lops off Windu's arm, he has fallen to the darkside. Thirty seconds later, he takes a knee and pledges himself to Sidious, becomes a Sith, and acquires the lord title. There are no secret scenes where Anakin is slowly counterbalancing his bad acts with kitten rescues and putting out house fires. The dude is just bad, and he gets progressively worse.
Even if Anakin wasn't truly darksided by the time he stalked into the Jedi Temple to slaughter his former fellow Jedi and murder a dozen or so children (and I'd argue he was firmly darkside before even doing that -- you can't kill an entire town's worth of sand people in vengeance, have a secret wife, lop off the head of a beaten opponent in even more vengeance, and then kill a Jedi Master and not be at least DS I. I mean, Jesus, I'd argue Anakin was already DS I at the start of Ep. II! He was never a 'good' Jedi as we saw in the films), he was certainly a full-fledged darksider by the time he arrived on Mustafar.
Anakin was a darkside character, fighting with the Sith, as a Sith, who used a blue saber. And it didn't blow up in his hand, or fail to turn on when he pressed the button, or anything else that an unequippable item might do.
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This is true, but I'm a bit worried that this game will do an SWG and try to change the game from what it is, to something totally different.
No, that isn't going to happen.
Which, frankly, is a shame, because I wouldn't shed a single tear if they turned combat into something more like what Tera is trying.
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I'd also like to mention that the Republic can't even get a purple crystal.
Thankfully, that, too, is changing with 1.5.
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It's just a PR stunt.
In a nutshell, this.
They don't care about what we have to say. If they did, the game would be sigificantly better right now, as 90% of the issues we're dealing with at the moment were repeatedly addressed by the beta testers and summarily ignored by this development team.
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do you really want the complete lack of differentiation and totally random color representation that WILL be the reality in this GAME if Bioware goes through with this?
Yes.
If color is factional, then the system that you speak of is already wholly ruined by light Sith and dark Jedi wielding non-factional colors. The current system preserves nothing of the general look of the films, and, in fact, forces many Sith who might have stuck with red; many Jedi who might have kept blue/green, into utilizing colors outside the spectrum you advocate.
The system in TOR, as it stands right now, encourages rainbowidization (look, I can make up words). It forces people to abandon iconic colors.
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Not to mention, Anakin could've changed it on the Trip from Coruscant to Mustafar or after he killed the Sep Leaders on Mustafar & before Padma's Ship showed up. So, had Palpatine given him a Red Crystal or instructed him to create a Red Crystal either on the way to Mustafar or after disposing of the Sep Leaders, I'm pretty sure he would've had enough time to do so.
Logic such as this might shatter the fragile minds of those who you argue against. Beware! Do you want their incapacitation on your conscience?!
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But OH WELLS!!! They caved to the whiney w** people who want everything handed to them on a silver platter with cherries on top
They caved to logic. I agree, though -- it's a tough world when clear thinking leads to action. We wouldn't want that happening too much, would we?
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Wow. You are so utterly clueless as to lore.
Orly?
You're story example. Wrong on so many levels. Jedi on either side used what was available on hand for their saber. Even in lore it states this. Of course Anakin wasn't going to rush out and make a new saber.But... his lightsaber was gonna blow. I mean, in the very least, it was going to sear the flesh right off his normal hand. You know, those restrictions cause them blue sabers to become unusable for the dark ones. And Anakin was really protective of that good hand, doncha know, having already lost the other.
Red has and always will be associated as a symbol of the Sith. Were they forced to use it? No. Most chose that color though for there sabers. There are exceptions as always.I uh... wow. Did you post this as a joke?
Oh, and, really... weren't you going to shred me regarding
Aww... durn it! The scene ended before his saber blew up in his palm... or melted... or unequipped itself! Rats!
IMHO, seeing a bunch of light side jedi running with red sabers is pretty dumb imho. What other way can the limit color choices?You already see a bunch of Jedi running around in TOR with red lightsabers. What does it matter what their alignment is? For a purist such as yourself, the damage should already have been done, which makes the current system crap, too. I mean, that's the point I was trying to make on page one of this vastly overblown thread -- that the current system in TOR should anger true fans of the films just as much as if we had no restrictions at all. It simply doesn't jive with anything we know about either the films or the EU.
What about a Dark aligned Jedi/Sith getting a bonus for using a red color crystal? You can still use blue or green if you want, you would just lose some minor stats.So... you're essentially stating that you'd like no Sith to use anything other than red? Because the moment you insert a gameplay consideration ahead of an aesthetic one in an MMO, the gameplay consideration always wins out. Nice try at a backdoor super-restriction, though.
But I 100% agree its a stupid idea to put this color restriction on non-force users.Uh... it's a morality system -- not a LS/DS system. If it applies to one or two classes, it must apply to all.
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PS: I've enjoyed reading your posts, so please excuse the pedantry of this reply.
No need to appologize. I agree with you, and actually liked aspects of the current system where crystals like Magenta (pink) were difficult to get. Removing all of that is a shame.
Having said that, the fact that nobody on the Republic could ever even attain a purple crystal was just shameful.
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If anyone can get them, they are, by definition, not rare.
That's not true. The capacity for anyone to attain a crystal should always be there. What is missing is the will, and, in some cases, the funding.
This is what MMOs are all about. There's a carrot on a stick, and it's dangling for everyone to take a bite out of. You need to display a little fortitude to crane your neck that far, though.
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I haven't dismissed counter examples. What I have done is point out that these are exceptions to the rule. Because, in fact, there is a rule, an aesthetic rule and a storytelling rule.
It is no rule at all if the very evidence you point to proclaiming it as a rule features contrary cues that signal that no rule, in fact, exists.
It's as if you set out to author a study that proved that black holes aren't real, and you instead conclusively proved that they are.
You cannot selectively cherry-pick from the movies. Your argument is akin to screaming that Mace Windu's purple saber doesn't really exist because it's the only one we see in the films. Yet, the evidence is right there, for all to see.
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Edit: and why would a Jedi who is on the dark side suddenly have to use a red crystal? Kind of an obvious way to tell the council about their alignment, don't you think?
YES!
In a story-based MMO, one would think this would be a HUGE issue!
The entire time my Jedi is going darksided, she's trying to hide the fact that she's doing evil things. If red automatically meant darkside, as people have argued, wouldn't me whipping one out constantly kind of give my lies away?
I mean, you cannot have it both ways... if the red sabers mean something, then no Jedi can use one in TOR -- the story doesn't allow for the angst it would cause. However, if the crystals mean nothing (and that is how the Jedi in TOR seem to act), then the current system is stupid and pointless.
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Of course Lucas didn't do that, because it's been established that making your own saber takes a considerable amount of time...there's also quite a bit of ritual behind it. It's not like building a snap together model, lol.
Really? Cause my character in TOR throws one together in the span of about 15 seconds.
And even if you decide that isn't factual, then why couldn't Sidious hand Anakin a pile of saber parts and say 'have at it'...? Or, as Tuscad suggested, why couldn't Sidious just lone him a spare?
Please try to think -- as Doc Brown put it -- fourth dimensionally here. The only reason Sidious is limited to two lightsabers in Ep. III is because Lucas made it so. If Lucas wanted to provide Sidious with a third spare just so he could hand it to Anakin, it could have been done.
As was stated previously, you're reaching. And, as I said a while ago, the only proof I need to dispell this nonsense is that Vader continues to use blue long after he is clearly quite darksided. You have absolutely no answer for that because it is a part of the core canon, which you proclaim to so religiously adhere to.
It's as if you attempted to prove me wrong by quoting a Bible verse, so I ripped the book out of your hand and smacked you with it. It's over. You are disarmed, and your weapon is in my hand.
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Now perhaps we can discuss the mechanic in SWTOR isn't ideal for Force Users. A more accurate simulation would be to have the DS/LS score more gradually impact the crystal's performance. A Light V Jedi would have a large penalty for wielding a red crystal; he could still use it, but it wouldn't be as effective.
Nothing in the canon supports that.
I challenge you to answer my last post. If GL wanted Sith to use red-only, it could have been done with ease. He didn't do it, so he doesn't care. Since he's the father of all this, I suggest you heed the will of the loremaster, who quite clearly doesn't give a damn about this business.
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Palpatine did have a blue saber, click on the link in my last post. I have no doubt that Palpatine would have given Vader one of his back ups because he did, he gave him one of his back ups to study and to inspire him in designing his own lightsaber after he lost the blue one in his duel with Kenobi.
What we're ignoring here is the obvious out.
Let me play devil's advocate for a moment.
Say Lucas decides he wants to preserve the red-only thing. He has Anakin slaughter the younglings, which tips him darkside... so, at that point, he clearly can't use his blue saber anymore. He leaves it at his apartment with Padme, and constructs a new saber (based largely on his original design in Ep. II) while flying on a transport to Mustafar.
Meanwhile, Obi-Wan visits the apartment and confronts Padme. He spies Anakin's old blue saber, and this only confirms that his apprentice has fallen to the darkside. Kenobi uses the force to distract Padme and pockets Anakin's old saber, then goes off to hide on Amidala's ship. Padme, distracted by the news of Anakin slaughtering the younglings, never even notices the saber is gone.
Elsewhere, Anakin kills the separatists leaders with this new saber, and duels Obi-Wan with it. It is destroyed at the end of the battle.
This leaves:
- Obi-Wan in possession of Anakin's old saber, so he can still give to Luke.
- Anakin in possession of a red saber during the crucial Mustafar duels.
- The continuity of the Sith-use-red only 'thing' preserved.
And it all comes with the addition of perhaps one thirty-second scene that shows Anakin constructing his new saber, and perhaps a small 10 second portion tacked on to the Obi confronts Padme scene. That's it. Easy as pie.
Except, Lucas didn't do that. He chose to have Anakin keep his blue saber; chose for Anakin to wield it while killing Separatists, and to use it against Obi-Wan. Now, you could argue that these decisions were only made because Lucas has largely lost his creative touch, but that's not the point. The point is, rather, that if Lucas felt strongly enough about this color BS, he would have found a way to give Anakin a red lightsaber shortly after he became a Sith. I mean, Jesus, in the span of 2 minutes I came up with a believable plot that would have made it happen.
But Lucas didn't do that.
Because he doesn't care.
You shouldn't either.
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Darth Sidious who had a spare hidden in the statue in his senate office.
Edit: I believe the statue held 3. One of them was on Sidious when Mace and the other Jedi walked in to arrest him of course.
I mean, Jesus, where was that scene where Anakin marched up to the Jedi Temple, pulled out his saber, clicked the button and... it failed to ignite?
[COMM] Master, I have run into some issues.
*The clones snicker.*
[COMM] What is it, my young apprentice? Are the Jedi dead? Is the temple aflame?
[COMM] No, master my... lightsaber won't turn on.
*More clone laughter.*
[COMM] Oh, I forgot to tell you. You can't use that lightsaber anymore because you're a bad guy now. Big oopsies on my part. Come back to my office and I'll give you a red crystal.
*Anakin leaves in a huff.*
Clone trooper #1: Ciggy break! AFK!
Clone trooper #2: Hehe... stupid sith.
Clone trooper #3: Shut up, dude... any more darkside points and you won't be able to use that blaster anymore.
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You mean the weight of a minority opinion.
Polls throughout the late beta actually supported restriction removal. Clearly, if Bioware thought those in favor of a restriction removal represented a dramatic minority, they wouldn't have gone out of the way to cater to us. The onus is on you to prove we're a minority because, frankly, I see this change as supporting the desires of a vast, vast, vast majority.
And please...gloating is such an ugly affectation.But it's so much fun. I believe I will continue to do so. *Dances.*
I've already pointed out where it's supported by lore, but you don't want to consider the Films lore, so I guess I can't win thereThe films are the core canon, but never state (or even so much as hint) that colors are restricted to sides, or are tied to a certain moral standing. In fact, when Vader doesn't immediately swap out the crystal in his lightsaber to a red one in Ep. III, and proceeds to slaughter younglings while using blue (which is darker than anything anyone has ever done in TOR), that's all the FILM EVIDENCE I need to support my case.
In fact, the weight of evidence regarding the creation of the films hints strongly that Lucas doesn't give a damn about color. The only reason Luke's saber was green was because blue clashed with the sky in Tunisia. The only reason Samuel L's saber was purple was because he asked it to be. Clearly, if Lucas was all bent out of shape about colors meaning something, he wouldn't just idly introduce new ones for rather minor real-life reasons.
Colors merely represent a personal choice. That's how it is to the characters in Star Wars; that's how it will now be in TOR.
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thanks for that i'm sure someone out there wasn't aware he had a blue saber thanks for trolling.
But... it defeats your entire case.
Same as... /princess Leia's saber... which was, in case you didn't know, red.
He's not trolling. He's pwning. You only feel like you got trolled because he threw you to the ground with such brilliant simplicity.
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Without restrictions, nobody gets to be unique because no choices have consequences.
The consequences for the choices you make should be in-game story alterations... not some flimsy color restrictions that, again, are nowhere supported by the lore. Clearly, the weight of public opinion was on the side of ending this stupidity. Good guys won. Keep snarling about it. Once the restrictions are gone, they're never coming back.
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I am playing a Star Wars game and one thing that was iconic to the franchise is definitely the color of crystals tied to the alignment of its user.
Apparently, you're not much of a Star Wars fan.
Color has-never-been-nor-will-it-ever-be restricted to morality. Lucas himself has confirmed that there is no direct link. The only lore basis for the restrictions was that, in the time of TPM, AotC etc., Sith couldn't get their hands on natural crystal supplies, and had to use synthetic crystals. Synth crystals (Luke used a synth crystal in RotJ, too, btw) are created by channeling the force through a forge. In the case of darksiders, this creates a crimson-red crystal... but not all synth crystals are red -- nor are all the sabers of Sith red. Certainly, the fact that the Sith in the TOR timeline favor purple just as much as red is proof of this.
Frankly, the limits in TOR make absolutely no sense as implemented in the game. They neither preserve the 'look' of the films, nor do they have any basis in the lore. You would argue that color is tied to morality as if picking up a green or a blue saber as a darksider would cause it to explode in my hand. Even in the films, time and again we are shown that darksiders can use 'light' colors (Anakin/Vader with blue throughout Ep. III, Vader ignited Luke's green saber in Ep. VI). Similarly, lightsiders can use red... as in the case of Anakin picking up Dooku's saber to finish him off with.
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HI THAR. MY NAME IZ EXAR KUN, ONE OF THE MOST BAD-*** SITH LORDS OF ALL TIMES (YOU CAN TELL SINC I USE ALL CAPS TO POST). I'D JUS LIK 2 JUMP IN HERE AND POINT OUT DAT I USED A BLUE SABRE. TY. DATS ALL I WANTED. <3 TO MY HOMIES IN EMPIR.
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Thanks, Exar.
Getting back on topic, the simple fact of the matter is, there is no canonical basis or otherwise for the current crystal restrictions. They were, quite literally, something Bioware conjured out of thin air. And, what's worse, they don't even preserve the look of the films, instead forcing many Jedi to abandon green/blue, and many Sith to forsake red. If you wanted to see more Sith using red, and more Jedi using green/blue as in the films, you should actually support dropping the restrictions.
As it stands now, I believe you simply don't understand either the lore or the system we've got in game.
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Just wanted to tack this on from later in the thread. This is how TOR's current restrictions would look if applied to Star Wars.
*I take you now to the famous Temple Slaughter scene from Ep. III. Anakin is boldly walking up the Jedi Temple stairs, flanked by an army of clone troopers. He approaches the door, reaches into his robes, pulls out his blue saber, and prepares to ignite it when...
... nothing happens?*
Clone trooper #1: Ruh-roh!
Clone trooper #3: He's got er... troubles 'getting it up,' I guess?
Clone trooper #1: Man, that's gotta create some tension in the sack with him and Padmomma or whatever.
Clone trooper #2: Hehe... be quiet, I want to hear this.
[Anakin COMM] Master, I have run into some issues.
*The clones snicker.*
[sidious COMM] What is it, my young apprentice? Are the Jedi dead? Is the temple aflame?
[Anakin COMM] No, master my... lightsaber won't turn on.
*More clone laughter.*
[sidious COMM] Oh, I forgot to tell you. You can't use that lightsaber anymore because you're a bad guy now. Big oopsies on my part. Come back to my office and I'll give you a red crystal.
*Anakin leaves in a huff.*
Clone trooper #1: Ciggy break! AFK!
Clone trooper #2: Hehe... stupid sith.
Clone trooper #3: Shut up, dude... any more darkside points and you won't be able to use that blaster anymore.
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What I will say is that Bioware and EA have released official subscriber numbers as well as a ton of metrics on game time played.
Actually, I'm about ninety percent certain that Bioware has never released active subscription numbers, just the total of boxes sold.
V/O with Cinematics does not mean good story.
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