I hope they never release a DPS meter

[Sendrel]

That's not true at all. Back in the old days, you just took your combat logs as txt files and did the math on your own.

 

Damage meters promote laziness.

 

Calculators bad!!

[Thrage]

That's not true at all. Back in the old days, you just took your combat logs as txt files and did the math on your own.

 

Damage meters promote laziness.

 

You're right. So do vacuum cleaners. We should pick the dirt out of our carpets grain by grain.

[Sohtaraz]

That's not true at all. Back in the old days, you just took your combat logs as txt files and did the math on your own.

 

Damage meters promote laziness.

 

 

Thats how best parsing happens in the first place, the problem is SWTOR does nothing on its own, nor does it give a log out that we could use for calculus so really....

[Masturomenos]

Dps metter, ability proc icons, proper healing addon are all needed very badly and I'm suprised are not already released. If you wanna RP then don't use em but if you want to max your play skills I for one would like to know when and why I'm sucking and try to improve myself without a way to guage that ill always just keep plugging along thinking I'm doing it right. Plus since the talent trees are set up wrath wow style we def will have proper cooki cutter specs with such limited choices and meters ill def help us find the proper spec.

[maelstromsix]

BecauseI have this amazing ability to watch the little yellow numbers (my damage) float up on the screen and can figure it out from there. Not my fault they do not have damage meters, I have no problem with them if that is what you want. Long as they have an option to turn the thing off so it is not in my way on the screen.

 

So if I have alot of yellow numbers Im doing good /Facepalm

[noggerr]

You can also "measure" the impact on the community, by looking at the attitudes that comes with obsessive quantification, your reply should be a fine case in point.

 

---

 

 

You are wrong. If i dont have a damage meter i will be pissed of because i KNOW there is someone or someones that dont do to good in my group, and there are gonna be fights about it noone knows and noone admits.

 

But thats not the only point. i wanna know myself if im any good, or if we have problems with progressing we can see what needs to be done, dont be so naive.

[archifikoss]

Agreed.

 

Damage meters create prejudice in groups, and if your not doing like 10k damage more than required your trash. I've been there and done that with groups.

 

That's an issue of player misuse IMO... The thing is that when your main function in a group is to do damage, you need to have a way to measure and assess it to improve, especially if you're a competitive player. If DPS was not a main role, it would not be important.

 

If anything, there should be meters for just about everything, CC used, buffs, debuffs, the works, or none at all... Either go all out or not at all IMO.

 

Again... I say this as a casual with no interest in competitive play.

[SnoggyMack]

You're right. So do vacuum cleaners. We should pick the dirt out of our carpets grain by grain.

 

That's the only way to really know it's clean. The vacuum cleaner will just straight up lie to you. And don't even get me started on the Roomba!

Edited January 1, 2012 by SnoggyMack

[Simanu]

I want a DPS meter I can see myself to make sure my rotation is good. Then my main is a healer so who cares.

[Sernon]

Who feels he can't play without a DPS meter? Being able to play and being able to intelligently optimize own and group's performance are not the same things. Thing even a child can understand.

 

We had the ability to adjust and communicate failures long before damage meters was taken into use, we also use something called self-improvement, and self-adjustment. Most are able to do that naturally. If you need tools to be able to learn and adapt, you admit to a dependency that goes outside of the natural ability to improve.

 

---

[Sendrel]

If anything, there should be meters for just about everything, CC used, buffs, debuffs, the works, or none at all... Either go all out or not at all IMO.

 

That's just it - modern dps meters are really mislabeled because they do all that, not just parse dps. Essentially, if it shows up in the combat log, it gets parsed and shows up on the meter. Its not just about damage.

[Dorc]

Sounds like someone's afraid his guildmates will discover he doesn't know how to pull his own weight in operations.

 

Pretty much this

[Thrage]

We had the ability to adjust and communicate failures long before damage meters was taken into use, we also use something called self-improvement, and self-adjustment. Most are able to do that naturally. If you need tools to be able to learn and adapt, you admit to a dependency that goes outside of the natural ability to improve.

 

---

 

Effective tool creation and use is the only difference between intelligent creatures like human beings and apes. And you know? Some apes are even capable of that. Crows, too.

 

I can use a knife to cut my steak, or I could use that same knife to stab somebody. Should we get rid of all knives?

[ajjw]

That's not true at all. Back in the old days, you just took your combat logs as txt files and did the math on your own.

 

Damage meters promote laziness.

Possibly the biggest load of trash I've read on these forums so far.

 

I've seen so many people throw around the word lazy in their posts when it isn't warranted. Stop having rose tinted glasses and nostalgia tripping about how apparently everything was harder "back in the good old days". The same people constantly spout "Go back to WoW if it's so easy!!". Jesus - This game isn't so hard either.

 

My signature is my only other contribution I have to this thread. Stop being bad.

[Sneakymcstab]

We had the ability to adjust and communicate failures long before damage meters was taken into use, we also use something called self-improvement, and self-adjustment. Most are able to do that naturally. If you need tools to be able to learn and adapt, you admit to a dependency that goes outside of the natural ability to improve.

 

---

 

You also had a way, way smaller player base who were probably much more passionate about the game. Times have changed, so have the tools we work with.

[Esresro]

You can also "measure" the impact on the community, by looking at the attitudes that comes with obsessive quantification, your reply should be a fine case in point.

 

---

 

Gratz on picking up on the most extreem example while ignoring the good replys. Poor show

[Dorc]

Agreed.

 

Damage meters create prejudice in groups, and if your not doing like 10k damage more than required your trash. I've been there and done that with groups.

 

Thats because its true...

[Masturomenos]

We had the ability to adjust and communicate failures long before damage meters was taken into use, we also use something called self-improvement, and self-adjustment. Most are able to do that naturally. If you need tools to be able to learn and adapt, you admit to a dependency that goes outside of the natural ability to improve.

 

---

 

I don't know about this ^ maybe the last gen of gamers but I'm pretty old and have been using meters for over 7 years now. That may be true some time ago but a gamer who's been playing for half a decade or less has always had meters. Meters are now a integral part to any game. Even your combat log is a personal dps meter or a crapp way to compare ur dps to another plyers if u sit and go over results so in a way its already implemented just in a non practical way by the devs.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Masturomenos

[Sernon]

Effective tool creation and use is the only difference between intelligent creatures like human beings and apes. And you know? Some apes are even capable of that. Crows, too.

 

I can use a knife to cut my steak, or I could use that same knife to stab somebody. Should we get rid of all knives?

 

 

We get rid of the RPG, if nothing else, unless you want to roleplay a calculator. Obsessive quantification has replaced the way numbers connect you to the action, as they turn into the action itself. What used to be a game of adventure, turns into a game of numbers. And that's no longer a fair representation of traditional adventure, it's a fair representation of a genre that has turned into a game of numerical dissection.

 

Numbers was always supposed to connect you to the action, but now the action is dictated by numbers. Which kills off anything but a red line going from A to B. It becomes a linear track, following the shortest route possible. And so dies the spirit of adventure, drowned by the calculated approach. And yet, interaction holds room for so much more, all killed by the mechanical approach.

 

---

Edited January 1, 2012 by Sernon

[Sernon]

You also had a way, way smaller player base who were probably much more passionate about the game. Times have changed, so have the tools we work with.

 

So you are telling me that we can discard interest and passion, and go for the most mindless approach instead, relying on tools, webpages and the work of others, instead of playing the game and find out for ourselves? The times have indeed changed.

 

---

[noggerr]

We get rid of the RPG, if nothing else, unless you want to roleplay a calculator. Obsessive quantification has replaced the way numbers connect you to the action, as they turn into the action itself. What used to be a game of adventure, turns into a game of numbers. And that's no longer a fair representation of traditional adventure, it's a fair representation of a genre that has turned into a game of numerical dissection.

 

Numbers was always supposed to connect you to the action, but now the action is dictated by numbers. Which kills off anything but a red line going from A to B. It becomes a linear track, following the shortest route possible. And so dies the spirit of adventure, drowned by the calculated approach. And yet, interaction holds room for so much more, all killed by the mechanical approach.

 

---

 

 

I hope you se that its the game that is enginered this way, not the "mods" it is a dps dependent game, everything evolves around gearing and improving. With that kind of attitude to this game maby you should go play something else, like God of war or something realtime skillbased...

This game is all about doing numbers nothing else, the rest is animations, and good rotations are skills, bad rotations are as good skills if you dont know what does most damage, and only cuz you ahve 2 abilities doing more damage dont mean they are the stake in the pot.

[SnoggyMack]

Possibly the biggest load of trash I've read on these forums so far.

 

I've seen so many people throw around the word lazy in their posts when it isn't warranted. Stop having rose tinted glasses and nostalgia tripping about how apparently everything was harder "back in the good old days". The same people constantly spout "Go back to WoW if it's so easy!!". Jesus - This game isn't so hard either.

 

My signature is my only other contribution I have to this thread. Stop being bad.

 

Damage Meters are the height of laziness. They don't contribute to raid encounters. They skew the data of the encounter. And all of the information can and should be figured out by hand if you really give a crap about the numbers.

 

Here's an excellent example ...

 

Blackwing Lair. Back in ye olden days of WoW.

 

DPS for a Rogue and a Mage.

 

First encounter, Razorgore. DPS meter tells us what exactly? Certainly not anything meaningful about winning the encounter.

 

Next boss, Vaelstraaz. DPS Meter again tells us only that if a rogue tops the DPS charts (like i often did) ... I was ... a- Placed correctly. And b- healed by the paladin correctly. Not that I was doing anything better than anyone else.

 

Broodlord . DPS Meter tells us what about this encounter? Nada. The toughest part of that fight is just getting there.

 

Firemaw, Ebonroc and Flamegor. All endurance fests. The DPS Meter isn't giving you any useful information here.

 

Chromaggus? Really? This fight is about the tactic, not the damage meter.

 

And finally, Nefarian. The entire fight is again about coordination, not damage meters.

 

Damage meters are indeed the height of laziness. And never have much at all to do with end-game raid encounters.

 

Strategy. Tactics. Teamwork. That's how you beat raid encounters. Your damage meter can stay at home.

Edited January 1, 2012 by SnoggyMack

[Mallorik]

Bioware seems to love enrage timers and it is pretty unbelievable that they dont have combat logs in the game.

[noggerr]

Damage Meters are the height of laziness. They don't contribute to raid encounters. They skew the data of the encounter. And all of the information can and should be figured out by hand if you really give a crap about the numbers.

 

Here's an excellent example ...

 

Blackwing Lair. Back in ye olden days of WoW.

 

DPS for a Rogue and a Mage.

 

First encounter, Razorgore. DPS meter tells us what exactly? Certainly not anything meaningful about winning the encounter.

 

Next boss, Vaelstraaz. DPS Meter again tells us only that if a rogue tops the DPS charts (like i often did) ... I was ... a- Placed correctly. And b- healed by the paladin correctly. Not that I was doing anything better than anyone else.

 

Broodlord . DPS Meter tells us what about this encounter? Nada. The toughest part of that fight is just getting there.

 

Firemaw, Ebonroc and Flamegor. All endurance fests. The DPS Meter isn't giving you any useful information here.

 

Chromaggus? Really? This fight is about the tactic, not the damage meter.

 

And finally, Nefarian. The entire fight is again about coordination, not damage meters.

 

Damage meters are indeed the height of laziness. And never have much at all to do with end-game raid encounters.

 

Strategy. Tactics. Teamwork. That's how you beat raid encounters. Your damage meter can stay at home.

 

 

So you are seriously saying that 70% of the encounters arent about as high dps output as possible?

 

And that you dont care if all dps performs good, lets say you do really good dps, you wont know about it, cuz you cant tell what other ppl do, dont you want to know why you cant beat the rage timer?

 

and as stated earlier, bad tank is obvious, bad healer is obvious, why shouldnt dps have the same demand.

Edited January 1, 2012 by noggerr

[Thrage]

We get rid of the RPG, if nothing else, unless you want to roleplay a calculator. Obsessive quantification has replaced the way numbers connect you to the action, as they turn into the action itself. What used to be a game of adventure, turns into a game of numbers. And that's no longer a fair representation of traditional adventure, it's a fair representation of a genre that has turned into a game of numerical dissection.

 

Numbers was always supposed to connect you to the action, but now the action is dictated by numbers. Which kills off anything but a red line going from A to B. It becomes a linear track, following the shortest route possible. And so dies the spirit of adventure, drowned by the calculated approach. And yet, interaction holds room for so much more, all killed by the mechanical approach.

 

---

 

I don't give a damn about "adventure" when I'm trying to figure out if XxBoBAFeTTxX or SEPHIROTH42069 is the one that sucks and needs to be kicked in order for us to beat the boss. Or hey, I might even be the one that sucks. I would never know without a meter. If my damage is not where it should be because of user error, I want to know about it, so I can fix the problem. I strive for greatness in every game I play, and so should anyone who wants to be serious about completing content like Heroic modes or Raiding.

 

Not that either of those, it seems, are difficult enough to warrant needing to be on top of your game to do. That's a whole other disappointment, and a whole other conversation.