Future for mods/macros

[DaxRendar]

I dislike the current default UI of SWTOR. I dislike that I can't use macros to better chain my abilities. I dislike not being able to see what is a better dps rotation for my characters.

 

I heard that Bioware has no plans to allow addons/modding at this time. Has there been any news about when they will allow addons?

 

And more importantly why can't we make macros?

 

BW has already said they are working on in-game UI Customization features (implemented by BW, not addons).

 

Combat Logs will be returning to the game at some point (they were in beta and disabled).

 

If those two changes aren't enough for you, it's quite possible that this isn't the game for you.

[Tarilr]

http://tinypic.com/r/c3zfl/5

 

Somebody please tell me how that gives me an unfair advantage? Is it because I made my UI smaller and cleaner? Is it because I can clean up my action bars by combining certain abilities into a macro so they take up space?

 

And since somebody is going to say that macro is cheating, here is what it does in plain English.

 

Press button. Use this skill. Press shift and the button. Use other skill. All it did was save me bar space. Something this game desperately needs.

 

And yes damage meters or at least a combat log is needed. Not because I care about other people so much, I mean I do if they are TERRIBLE. I can tell when a group is terrible based on how slowly something is dying,but unless I have logs/meters to look at I will have no idea who is the weak link unless it is extremely obvious. But mostly because I like to look at them to see how I am doing. I'm not super hardcore,but I like min/maxing. I have spreadsheets for my toons. I use the sims. I want to test myself in game to see how close I am coming to the projected to improve myself. How can I do this without meters or logs?

 

I'm also mainly a tank, the meters come in handy to figure out how I or other people died. When wiping on new bosses, the first thing I do before I even release is open up recount and look at the death log. Why? I want to know what killed me. Did I goof up and stand in something/not use the right skill? Did my healers just slack off? I want to know so when we go again I can change the strat to give us a better chance of downing it. How is that bad?

 

Should we just continue to beat our heads against the wall just guessing what went wrong and pray that it doesn't the next time?

[zolthie]

Threat and damagemeter are needed.

Target of target is needed.

Macros are needed.

[Baaddare]

Yeah, I don't understand the why macros and addons would be the end of the world. A majority of the players want or even demand these features. Hell we will do the addons ourselves BW

 

actually a minority of the players here want and or demand addons. They have said that they will be adding customization of the UI. I am sure macros will be comming since the new board that razar is selling, for this game, has that as a built in feature.

[DaxRendar]

Threat and damagemeter are needed.

Target of target is needed.

Macros are needed.

 

Well I agree with you on 1 out of 3 (Target of Target)

(and honestly even there, it'd be nice to have but it's not OMGWTF NEEDED!!1!!1!)

[Baaddare]

All addons do is rearrange the info on the screen in such a way makes it reach your brain more efficiently.

 

Not sure why so many people think they "play the game" for you.

 

actually addons do much more that that. In wow for example they can auto cast spells, tell you what spell to cast when so that you do not even have to think. Let alone the fact that it opens up the game to botting and hacking easier.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Baaddare

[Baaddare]

Marco's are skill I'll give you a few examples I use on my hunter over on wow

 

One macro is for my boar, and it intercepts on my focus target without me having to target anything I can set a focus and then i can intervene is need be

 

Another one is also really simple and saves me time, everytime i fire serpent sting i also apply hunters mark, this way if its an add fight I don't have to manually apply HM.

 

there are just to examples that good players would have looked into, and there are many more I use on a regular basis.

 

actually your examples is exactly what he is against and what many will point to as a reason to not have macros

[Baaddare]

http://tinypic.com/r/c3zfl/5

 

Somebody please tell me how that gives me an unfair advantage? Is it because I made my UI smaller and cleaner? Is it because I can clean up my action bars by combining certain abilities into a macro so they take up space?

 

And since somebody is going to say that macro is cheating, here is what it does in plain English.

 

Press button. Use this skill. Press shift and the button. Use other skill. All it did was save me bar space. Something this game desperately needs.

 

And yes damage meters or at least a combat log is needed. Not because I care about other people so much, I mean I do if they are TERRIBLE. I can tell when a group is terrible based on how slowly something is dying,but unless I have logs/meters to look at I will have no idea who is the weak link unless it is extremely obvious. But mostly because I like to look at them to see how I am doing. I'm not super hardcore,but I like min/maxing. I have spreadsheets for my toons. I use the sims. I want to test myself in game to see how close I am coming to the projected to improve myself. How can I do this without meters or logs?

 

I'm also mainly a tank, the meters come in handy to figure out how I or other people died. When wiping on new bosses, the first thing I do before I even release is open up recount and look at the death log. Why? I want to know what killed me. Did I goof up and stand in something/not use the right skill? Did my healers just slack off? I want to know so when we go again I can change the strat to give us a better chance of downing it. How is that bad?

 

Should we just continue to beat our heads against the wall just guessing what went wrong and pray that it doesn't the next time?

 

they have said they are going to allow UI customization though them just not as an outside mod. hopefully it would be something along the lines of LOTRO's or DDO .

[Kurnea]

actually addons do much more that that. In wow for example they can auto cast spells, tell you what spell to cast when so that you do not even have to think. Let alone the fact that it opens up the game to botting and hacking easier.

 

The functionality you're talking about was broken a long time ago. No modern mod I know of can 'auto-cast', and that's the benefit of a strict api. Addons can only do what the api allows them to. An addon can't cast a spell for the user unless there are specific services within the addon api that allow for that.

 

Also, addons use scripts that have no permissions or rights to alter game data or enable 'hacking'. If we're talking an .exe out on the web that someone downloads and double clicks on, that's not an addon.

 

I get the feeling that much of why some people hate addons is because they don't really understand what they do or how they work.

[Otherlander]

Pretty much every WoW class has had or has a "One-Button Macro." One way to have done this was the command line:

 

/run local _,a,_ = GetSpellCooldown("SkillName") if (a == 0) then CastSpellByName("SameSkillName") end

 

Running those lines together with every skill in your rotation makes (or made, it's been a while) the next skill in the list that wasn't on CD or GCD cast. There: Your one example has been given.

 

On that note, as long as there isn't a recount-style addon added into this game (which basically means no combat log), I could care less.

 

And players that used such macros would suck too. Most classes win WoW had priority style ability use, nothing as linear as your macro example would work with. Top players were the ones that knew when to use what abilities and cooldowns at precisely the right time. Not when something came off cooldown

 

I'd still be fine with BW not allowing ability chaining macros. But for the love of god, add in things like mouseover macros.

[Kurnea]

everyone is at the same level without macros...

 

Noo.... they're not. Players with specific gaming hardware, specifically those with multi-button mouses and customizable keyboards that allow for scripted macros, have an advantage over everyone else. In-game macros help bridge that gap for players that can't afford that kind of hardware.

[Jett-Rinn]

SWTOR is such a casual based game I really find it laughable that some folks still want mods...it's saying you want to have someone come to your home and play for you.

[zootzoot]

actually addons do much more that that. In wow for example they can auto cast spells, tell you what spell to cast when so that you do not even have to think. Let alone the fact that it opens up the game to botting and hacking easier.

 

Another post from Urban Legend land.

 

What addon automatically casts spells? That's actually impossible with the present API but you wouldn't know that would you.

 

As far as telling you what spells to use....any addon that does that is just displaying a list that the PLAYER puts together of what priority abilities have. The addon just makes it easier to see when those abilities come off CD.

 

Addons improve the UI. That's it. A UI should be transparent to the user in any software app which includes games. When a UI fails to give the user the feedback they need in the way they need then it's a failed UI....like we have now.

 

Addons can't play the game for you. They simply display info that's already there but in a better way to each user.

 

A good example is the class I play...the Operative. We work off of Tactical Advantage. It's a Buff that can stack two times. I know what triggers TA and there are a few audio queues but I'd prefer to move my Buff's closer to the center of my field of view...so next to my toon on screen. Same for Debuffs on mobs and Debuffs on my party. The info is all there but it's poorly displayed IMO. Addons would let me display the info the way I want.

 

That isn't cheating or being a baddie. That's making the UI disappear which is what every UI should do if it's well made.

[Jett-Rinn]

Noo.... they're not. Players with specific gaming hardware, specifically those with multi-button mouses and customizable keyboards that allow for scripted macros, have an advantage over everyone else. In-game macros help bridge that gap for players that can't afford that kind of hardware.

 

I disagree.

 

I have a programmable keyboard and a razer naga and I am fairly decent at PVP my wife uses neither one and consistently owns me as does my good friend. in the end it really is how good you are personally not what tools you use.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Jett-Rinn

[zootzoot]

SWTOR is such a casual based game I really find it laughable that some folks still want mods...it's saying you want to have someone come to your home and play for you.

 

What are you talking about? Read my post above. You obviously know zilch about this subject. Where do these fools come from?

[zootzoot]

I disagree.

 

I have a programmable keyboard and a razer naga and I am fairly decent at PVP my wife uses neither one and consistently owns me as does my good friend. in the end it really is how good you are personally not what tools you use.

 

You just answered things right there. Addons are just like hardware. We use what makes us comfortable. You may like your UI one way and I like it another. In the end all addons do is make our playtime more comfortable and then it comes down to skill.

Edited January 3, 2012 by zootzoot

[OneZero]

Addons i'm meh about. I'd like a streamlined UI but Bioware can do that as easily as a mod community (Detectable, Sizable, and Transparent bars please Bio!). What I'd hate to see are "Healbot", "Decursive", and "Threat Meter" clones. That takes something away from the game if the mechanics don't force you to be super human to remove debuffs and hold aggro.

 

What I would like to see is macros in the sense that you don't have to click twice or three times to activate a item/ability then use a primary ability. This is just a convenience factor and doesn't take anything away from the game or effect "skill" level of the players.

[zootzoot]

Addons i'm meh about. I'd like a streamlined UI but Bioware can do that as easily as a mod community (Detectable, Sizable, and Transparent bars please Bio!).

 

How can Bioware do it "just as wel" as thousands of modders doing the work for free and doing things THEY want to see in game. Most mods start as a pet project for something a player fell is missing from the UI. Look at WOW. They slowly implement the best mos into game....slowly. I'd prefer to have an API where I can pick from the work of modder hobbyists who love the game then to wait for Bioware (who have never shown that have the ability to make a good UI in ANY game)

 

What I'd hate to see are "Healbot", "Decursive", and "Threat Meter" clones. That takes something away from the game if the mechanics don't force you to be super human to remove debuffs and hold aggro.

 

What I would like to see is macros in the sense that you don't have to click twice or three times to activate a item/ability then use a primary ability. This is just a convenience factor and doesn't take anything away from the game or effect "skill" level of the players.

 

Healbot is a variation on the WOW Raid frames with built in Click casting so you can use your mouse keys as Hot keys. Nothing more. So is Decursive except that just displays Debuffs. Both have been that way for 6 years. I'm tired of people referencing broken mods from the dawn of WOW as an example of the evils of addons.

[Ripchord]

The whole reason to have a Global Cooldown is to break macros, so why not allow us to have custom UI/addons if everything triggers a GC anyways?

[OnyxJedi]

The three things I would like to see is:

 

1. Show/Hide and drag windows around like Guild Wars interface.

 

2. As a healer, have my health/energy bar over with the party bars

 

3. Have more than 2 hot bars at the bottom.

[zootzoot]

The whole reason to have a Global Cooldown is to break macros, so why not allow us to have custom UI/addons if everything triggers a GC anyways?

 

Well Rift has a GCD and their macro system is broken IMO. Rift has ability bloat like TOR and they got around it by allowing multiple GCD triggering abilities to be used in one macro.

 

The Rift macro system skips any ability on CD or unavailable meaning players could make macros with their whole rotation including "proc" abilities. I played a Nightblade and could play with two keys. That's bad.

[Xzulld]

The whole reason to have a Global Cooldown is to break macros, so why not allow us to have custom UI/addons if everything triggers a GC anyways?

 

See this is reasoned logic . . . you cant go using that to argue against the anti- crowd. They are against for the reason of being against. No facts need apply.

 

Well Rift has a GCD and their macro system is broken IMO. Rift has ability bloat like TOR and they got around it by allowing multiple GCD triggering abilities to be used in one macro.

 

The Rift macro system skips any ability on CD or unavailable meaning players could make macros with their whole rotation including "proc" abilities. I played a Nightblade and could play with two keys. That's bad.

 

That sounds like an example of a bug. If the GCD is intended to break up abilities, then anything that removes that hindrance would be a bug, or design flaw.

Edited January 3, 2012 by Xzulld

[xNonphixionx]

Said it before ill say it again. Macro's ruin games. They take all skill and decision making out of the equation. I LOVE the fact that I actually have to use my entire hotbar.

 

Take Rift for example...For about 3 months the TOP ROGUE DPS SPEC required you to use 3 buttons total. I had...get this...11 SKILLS macro onto 1 button. You would just spam the one button, then use your finisher, spam the one button, then finisher. Rinse repeat for the top DPS on the charts.

 

If you think that's what this game needs then you really need to go back to World of Warcraft. I enjoy having control over my entire hotbar. The way it is now will just separate the truelly elite from the god awful wow kiddies.

[xNonphixionx]

The three things I would like to see is:

 

1. Show/Hide and drag windows around like Guild Wars interface.

 

2. As a healer, have my health/energy bar over with the party bars

 

3. Have more than 2 hot bars at the bottom.

 

Couldn't agree more...I occasionally forget about my own health when it is in a different location than the groups.

[TheHauntingBard]

Well guys if you dislike macro's you might want to complain about the fact Razer is selling a keyboard with Biowares approval that allows you to make complex macro's.