ochiras Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 As a Slicer i have to disagree idd, can't be soon enough the other proffs get a slam with the nerf bat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conundrum-NSA Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 As a Slicer i have to disagree idd, can't be soon enough the other proffs get a slam with the nerf bat Karma is a wonderful thing sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liralen Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Problem is these things create to much of an advantage in warzones. In PvE I could care less about their benefits in disparity to a non biochem crafter. In PvP the fact that stims in a warzone do not persist through death (making it too cost inefficient to buy blues when you go through 4 or 5 in a warzone), the fact that adrenals are like having another more powerful relic slot, and the fact the the rakata medpack is very very powerful (particualrly for ppl in tank specs), give huge edges to biochem crafters over every other profession in the game. Currently in PvP if you are not a biochem crafter you are at a huge disadvantage. Wonderful. Yet another game where PvE gets nerfed because of PvP. I hate that. Yet it's the only reasonable argument I've read so far for nerfing biochem. This game lacks a crafting dev manager who understands where crafting should fit within the big picture. Which is that crafted items should be better than items obtained by soloing (because soloing is the baseline, and no reason to craft if there is no market for crafted items) but crafted items should not be better than items obtained with the help of others (because this is an MMO), except when the crafted items are only possible to craft with the help of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindstrike Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) It is not OP but the problem is that the whole Crew Skill System is build as a support to get more easy to end game and Biochem is useful for ever IMHO. I wish BW was communicating some more ,tell how the system works and why ...This will solve a lot of rage now on the forums . Edited January 2, 2012 by blindstrike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkeGBF Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 Do you have any idea of how much potential profit I am losing by having to RE all of my output, to even get those recipes? Almost none at all, given what you gain in infinitely reusable personal buffs and heals. I don't understand why you think you're unique here either, every other profession has to reverse engineer away a LOT more in potential income to get their epic recipes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kissakias Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 i can say here and everywhere that armormech is OP /period Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattouf Posted January 2, 2012 Share Posted January 2, 2012 (edited) I bet slicers are reading this thread with a great deal of satisfaction. I told you all who whined about Slicing to hope to god no one decided one of your skills is overpowered. As a Slicer i have to disagree idd, can't be soon enough the other proffs get a slam with the nerf bat Exactly my thoughts I am soooooo waiting for Biochem nerfs. Why ? Just for you to experience what all true slicers experienced ! And by true, i mean slicers who didn't overexploit their crew skill, slicers who were helping their guild with it, slicers who were higher than level 30, that use it because it was perfectly fitting their playstyle by not crafting anything and by buying what they need at the GTN ... to other crafters ! When i read the first post, i thought "hey, that post is very well built and with a lot of strong points ! Let's see if it follows the same path at the ones concerning Slicing !" We brought a lot of reasons why slicing shouldn't be nerfed, or only by a small nerfhammer ... we even brought spreadsheets and stuff ... still, the whiners won the war when they never brought a single valid point .... Good guy me wishes you to never experience such injustice The usual me pray for the nerf to strike ... Karma is a wonderful thing sometimes. You are so right I love the irony of the situation Edited January 2, 2012 by Mattouf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fyrne Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) Only 6 pages and not on page 1 anymore? Needs a bump - in favor of buffing the other Crew Skills though. I was a WoW Engineer for all the fun gadgets and grenades and when I saw Cybertech could make grenades, I was excited it might be as fun as engineering sometimes was (it was, more often than not, completely useless though.) Now in WoW (stay with me, people need to compare) you could have more than one crafting profession, so it wasn't too terrible if Engineering had a few bad months (or years..), but here I'm sitting on 400 Cybertech and can't do anything with it. Short insight: the highest Mods/Armorings I can make with no raid/HM schematic drops (Artifact 22A) are worthless, because every Item you get has better ones already in it. And you can remove and re-use those. One of my companions wears 5 HM pieces with better mods in them already, so I can't even craft these expensive things for my companions really. But Cybertech has grenades, you say? Yea, on a 3 minute shared cooldown. Every 3 minutes I get to throw a grenade that does less damage than my 15s CD Smash on the Juggernaut. And for every grenade I throw, the Biochem dude can use two Medpacks that each heal double the amount of the damage my grenade did. But some of them have CC components, you say? Sure, one has a slow, which I have on NO cooldown on my Juggernaut and others have roots and short stuns, which I also have on next to no cooldown, as does every other class. And those grenades then do next to no damage. All in all: grenades are useless, mounts pale in comparison to what you get for 1.5mil on a vendor, ship upgrades are on the GTN in abundance for under 100k credits for all of them, armorings/mods are worthless and don't even sell because of that ..and that's about it for Cybertech. Pretty sure the other professions are off even worse though. With the amount of gear you simply get thrown at by doing some FP/PvP, I can't imagine anyone really needs anything crafted from anyone. I wear one critical crafted artifact item because it was given to me for free and was slightly better than the PvP piece for PvE, but that's it. On Biochem though, I'd have permanent stims on me, could chug Medpacs all day long and have three freaking Relics basically. Sure, later on when I sport millions of credits, I might just buy the BoE one's and chug those, but that's months off and even then I can't really see me using a 6k credit Medpack just so I live a little longer in PvP, while the guy who crafted it gets it for free every 90 seconds and buys nothing from me because all I can craft is completely useless. Edited January 3, 2012 by Fyrne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaoticdrake Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Why not discuss how to buff your profession or class instead of calling for things to get nerfed? That's something that's been going on in MMO's for as long as I can remember. Come on people, don't hate on other crew skills or classes, help make your class or crew skill as good as the one you think is over powered. This is all I ever want to see. Thank you for saying that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deserttfoxx Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 You conviently left out every adrenal, here let me help you lose your arguement. http://db.darthhater.com/recipes/1876/rakata_force_adrenal/ http://db.darthhater.com/recipes/216/rakata_efficacy_adrenal/ http://db.darthhater.com/recipes/273/rakata_critical_adrenal/ http://db.darthhater.com/recipes/1201/rakata_absorb_adrenal/ http://db.darthhater.com/recipes/3003/exotech_triage_adrenal/ Biochem is all balanced until someone pops a 50% crit rate adrenal. Reusable buff consumables... the whole premise is asinine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eukament Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 You conviently left out every adrenal, here let me help you lose your arguement. http://db.darthhater.com/recipes/1876/rakata_force_adrenal/ http://db.darthhater.com/recipes/216/rakata_efficacy_adrenal/ http://db.darthhater.com/recipes/273/rakata_critical_adrenal/ http://db.darthhater.com/recipes/1201/rakata_absorb_adrenal/ http://db.darthhater.com/recipes/3003/exotech_triage_adrenal/ Biochem is all balanced until someone pops a 50% crit rate adrenal. Reusable buff consumables... the whole premise is asinine. Bump. OP intentinally left out the Adrenals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GengisKahn Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Reusable adrenals are OP, yes. Medpacks and stims aren't. Other crew skills need buffing to a Biochem without reusable adrenals level and Biochem should be nerfed by taking reusable adrenals out of the game. That's what i think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stillnotking Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Crit adrenals don't give anything like +50% crit rate. It's more like +8%. Everyone sees a big rating number on the adrenals but doesn't realize that the actual in-game effect is pretty minor. Secondary stats have steeply diminishing returns, as well. Anyone who thinks reusable adrenals are in any way game-breaking has no experience with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deserttfoxx Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Reusable adrenals are OP, yes. Medpacks and stims aren't. Other crew skills need buffing to a Biochem without reusable adrenals level and Biochem should be nerfed by taking reusable adrenals out of the game. That's what i think. I already said that before, leave medpacks and stims alone, change adrenals to 3 use consumables and make them tradeable. problem solved, everyone has access to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhazesx Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Its not OP but its bugged. I'm sorry but Biochem is useful at level 50 and that's unintended and needs to be fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ithril Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Playing in a PvP guild, we've talked about it and most of us are just holding on to are crew skills in hopes that something changes. Right now, there is no rational argument for any other crew skill over biochem. It's not even close. IMO, one of two things needs to happen: 1: The Biochem only requirement needs to come off of everything Biochems make. (As a 400 armmormech I'm still waiting to see my armmormech only requirement on anything...) 2: Every other crafting skill needs legitimately comparable and unique advantages. I would even be in favor of doing option 1 short-term until they could figure out a way of doing option 2. I concur with what someone else said: If they don't change something soon, it could have a negative effect on the economy (especially on PvP servers), because right now anyone making a rational decision based on current game mechanics would switch to biochem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthSublimitas Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 If it wasn't for the reusable stims/medpacks the Vendor Stims and Medpacks would make us just as obsolete as every other crafting profession out there. You can easily get by on the vendor purchased Stims and Medpacks from 1-50 and most 50+ situations. Each crafting profession gets their own perk at max level, some of them need to be buffed there's no doubt about that. Why not discuss how to buff your profession or class instead of calling for things to get nerfed? That's something that's been going on in MMO's for as long as I can remember. Come on people, don't hate on other crew skills or classes, help make your class or crew skill as good as the one you think is over powered. I totally agree. I mean, why even bother to lvl anything up because you will always have ppl complaining that what they didn't take is OP. BW will, of course, cave in and just nerf things without any thinking as they did with slicing. As far as I'm concerned, I'm not doing any profs - I'd rather gather, buy out the AH and then corner the market hiking the prices to make a profit that way. People want to complain about the crafting professions and ruin it for everyone, that's fine, now they're going to pay for it with credits... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunthr Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Ok, and Youre "PvP" guild actually know that u can get reusable stun/snare bombs from cybertech? its free win in huttball when used on chasing crowd. Anyway, pvp potions are on par with most biochem pots and till level 50 every single reusable medpack is crap , becouse 2-3k heal means nothing in a teamfight. I got 250 k healing done in usuall wz with my bodyguard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogicalPremise Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 This is why I never have to worry -- Synthweaving is already worthless, nothing they can do to nerf it worse. So, on the Biochem side you have people saying "we are not OP we have to spend all our cash and RE constantly to get these reusables and blah blah" and on the opposing side you have a bunch of butthurt slicers going "durr hurr nerf it trololol" So, expect a nerf. It's the only logical conclusion. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ithril Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Each crafting profession gets their own perk at max level, some of them need to be buffed there's no doubt about that. If this statement were actually true, there wouldn't be a problem. But it's not. I'm an armmormech, so I don't know every other profession inside and out, but what is supposed to be my perk? There is not a thing that an armmormech can do or have that someone with credits and access to the GTN can't. Nothing. I'm fairly certain the same can be said for synthweaving. I believe it's also true for artifice and armstech. That's the problem when you say "each" profession has their own perk, what you actually mean is Biochem and (to a much lesser extent) cybertech. That's the imbalance. If I'm mistaken, someone please correct me with examples of things exclusive to the other tradeskills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ithril Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Anyway, pvp potions are on par with most biochem pots and till level 50 every single reusable medpack is crap , becouse 2-3k heal means nothing in a teamfight. I got 250 k healing done in usuall wz with my bodyguard. And they're also on a seperate timer, so you can use both. That's why my biochem sniper buddy usually finishes 3rd or 4th in healing in warzones without a heal spell. 2-3k heal means nothing, but he normally does 40-50k on top of his insane damage. He's a very good player, but the point being: it's an advantage exclusive to one tradeskill not matched by any kind of an advantage to the other tradeskills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunthr Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Hmm he would have to use those every time they go off cd for those numbers...he got rakata meds ? Anyway, still , half of this healing can be archieved only through pvp potions, other 3/4 through Meds from vendors, right ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RpTheHotrod Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Biochem: Reusable medpacks/stimsArmstech: Reusable Overloading (increases DPS for x amount of time)Armortech: Reusable Emergency Shielding (increases defense for x amount of time)Synthweaving: Reusable Power Flow (increases power regeneration)Cybertech: ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ithril Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Hmm he would have to use those every time they go off cd for those numbers...he got rakata meds ? Anyway, still , half of this healing can be archieved only through pvp potions, other 3/4 through Meds from vendors, right ? No way could you get 20-25k healing through pvp pots alone. Cooldown is pretty long. The meds from vendors (and btw spending 4.5k creds to use 3 pots in a match isn't exactly a good way to make money PvPing), wouldn't get you 3/4 either. I do all that stuff, and have a self HoT, and my healing doesn't come close to his. I'm not sure of exactly what meds he has. I know he has gotten at least two of the crafting material needed to make rakata stuff. Like I said, I'm not a biochem so I don't know much more than he has huge heal numbers for someone without a heal spell, and he sure does like getting the 2.5k and 5k heal medals every match. I would imagine he can use his various meds every time the CD is up, as he is a rather high priority target given his damage output. Back to the point of this thread: I don't think there's anything wrong with that, and I don't want to nerf biochem. I want to buff them. Just turn off that little biochem only requirement so that all the happy biochems can sell their great products on the GTN and the rest of us can enjoy the perks. The biochems get a buff to their credit totals, the rest of us stop feeling required to change our crew skills, and everyone is happy. At least until there are comparable advantages to all of the other tradeskills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ithril Posted January 3, 2012 Share Posted January 3, 2012 Armstech: Reusable Overloading (increases DPS for x amount of time) Armortech: Reusable Emergency Shielding (increases defense for x amount of time) Synthweaving: Reusable Power Flow (increases power regeneration) Cybertech: ??? Just for clarification: are these suggestions, or do they actually exist in game? If they do, where? I haven't seen them and doing a quick search through some databases couldn't find them there either. Would be really nice if there were actually some advantages to the other tradeskills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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