Who designed this garbage?

[Zetara]

I honestly am lost for words when people try to say, that people playing a multiplayer game together with others, on a game designed to play with other people, is some kind of bad thing, when they play against people who CHOOSE not to do these things.

[Neil_S]

Dude, you are so wrong, and yet you preach like you know everything.

 

Who would EVER think that in an MMO, AM MMO!! grouping with people you know, using voice chat and coordinating would give an advantage!!! THE AUDACITY OF BIOWARE!!!!

 

Dude, seriously, your coming across like a kid with bad social skills that cannot find a guild who wants everything handed to them...Give me a buff when I lose!!! I only have fun if I win!! ME ME ME ME ME!!!!!

 

YOU shouldn't make arguments when you don't have the knowledge necessary

 

Sorry, I didn't realize I was responding to the village idiot. I'll save my breath next time, as you are clearly incapable of comprehending what I am saying.

[Swaay]

I honestly am lost for words when people try to say, that people playing a multiplayer game together with others, on a game designed to play with other people, is some kind of bad thing, when they play against people who CHOOSE not to do these things.

 

/thread

[Neil_S]

I honestly am lost for words when people try to say, that people playing a multiplayer game together with others, on a game designed to play with other people, is some kind of bad thing, when they play against people who CHOOSE not to do these things.

 

It's not a bad thing. The game should simply be designed so that when it offers an avenue of play, there is a high likelihood that this avenue of play will be enjoyable. In this case, the avenue of play is solo queueing PvP.

[Verita]

And queue times would be outrageous...then you all would be here crying about that:rolleyes:

 

I don't think so if it's cross server. You can even mix servers with different languages in Europe since opposing factions can't talk with one another.

 

Of course the bracket size needs to be balanced, but I don't pretend to have all the answers either and many details would need to be clarified first.

 

It's just an idea I like and I think it could solve many of the fun dampening problems without limiting the hardcore PVP players.

[Neil_S]

/thread

 

<thread>

[Swaay]

Sorry, I didn't realize I was responding to the village idiot. I'll save my breath next time, as you are clearly incapable of comprehending what I am saying.

 

Ah, here we go with the insults. An obvious move of anyone losing an argument. "Well, atleast im not ugly!!"

 

But, its you sir that are completely incapable of understanding your playing an MMO. This is not a single player game or FPS but an MMO, meant to be played with other people and reward coordination between them.

[dougan]

Queuing solo against a premade will end badly in every MMO currently out that has PvP instances. The genre is simply not for you, OP. You should be playing dota-style games. Trust me, HoN or LoL would be much more to your liking.

[Neil_S]

Queuing solo against a premade will end badly in every MMO currently out that has PvP instances. The genre is simply not for you, OP. You should be playing dota-style games. Trust me, HoN or LoL would be much more to your liking.

 

Explain to me why my ideas for mitigating this effect, such as cross-server play and progressive buffs when you lose, are bad ideas.

[Kromzor]

To be honest you just sound like a carebear who wants to be rewarded for not putting effort in.

 

PVP gear is a reward for playing well. Before you get it you must play well without gear. These players have already played well without gear, and now have gear. You are now doing what they had to do, before they get gear. Gear is a reward, you wear it because you have earnt it. You do not earn something, only to have it mean nothing. If they have gear it's because they've PVP'd more than you, won more than you, therefore will have an advantage over you. As it should be. PVP more yourself, win more yourself, get gear yourself.

 

Considering i've watched people on my server AFK their way to Centurian I'm thinking you're the real carebear for defending such a ****** system.

 

Obviously it wouldn't be such a big deal, IF THIS GAME HAD BRACKETS DUR, but Biofail thought otherwise... now a large part of winning or losing is based on how many Epic'd 50s you have on your team vs theirs. And god help you if you've got bolstered lowbies filling you're team going against a 4 man of 50s.

 

Just watched a Jugg literally tank an entire team after being pulled into the acid at the start of Huttball for a good 15 seconds.... then he passed the ball for a quick score.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Kromzor

[carbocat]

1. You play against people on your server, rather than having cross server play. This is bad design. You end up with the same people facing each other over and over within a certain time period, with the same results, since skill, gear, and coordination level aren't going to improve teamwide in that period.

 

2. Geared up people win more easily, which means they get better gear faster, and it repeats. There should be some analysis of team power factored into commendation awards, at the very least.

 

3. Losing every match for hours on end is frustrating. You should get more and more buff every time you lose a match. When you finally win, you reset back to normal. If you're bad, you'll still lose more of the time, but the occasional win when your team of losers finally gets so buff that they win will reduce the frustration without making the better players feel like they're getting gypped.

 

4. There is no way to boot afk players, which seem to be fairly common, at least on my server, especially when the same premade group of geared out 50s wails on you on every match because they're the only ones queueing.

 

5. PvP gear is too good. Why can I buy a rank 23 barrel from a PvP vendor yet I can only make level 22 as a crafter? Asinine.

 

6. Open World PvP is complete garbage. People act based on incentives, and as a game designer you are supposed to use incentives to encourage them to play in fun ways. The incentives here just encourage people to avoid each other. Somewhat like Planetside, but without an "instant action" button. Whoever thought this was serviceable should not be allowed to design anything again.

 

To those who say blah blah blah make your own premade and spend weeks losing so you can match your opponents' gear, I say...that's not fun. Games are supposed to be fun, and bad game design is at fault for the PVP system not being fun for anyone except those who love smacking down opponents who have absolutely 0% chance of beating them -which, admittedly, seems to be a decent % of the PvP player base.

 

troll is obviuse troll, go and play league of legends and WoW, nowone hold you here!

[Swaay]

Considering i've watched people on my server AFK their way to Centurian I'm thinking you're the real carebear for defending such a ****** system.

 

Nobody that's disagreed with the OP has yet disagreed with his point about afk'ers... we have all stated that yes, this is a problem that needs to be addressed. It's his other points that we disagree with.

[Neil_S]

troll is obviuse troll, go and play league of legends and WoW, nowone hold you here!

 

Oh, and what are you going to do if the developers actually make changes resembling what I've suggested? Then you will be the one who has to go play a different game, because you're obviously quite against them!

[Zetara]

Considering i've watched people on my server AFK their way to Centurian I'm thinking you're the real carebear for defending such a ****** system.

 

Rubbish. I haven't even mentioned AFKers.

[carbocat]

Oh, and what are you going to do if the developers actually make changes resembling what I've suggested? Then you will be the one who has to go play a different game, because you're obviously quite against them!

 

I don`t care, i like this game!

[Sethorin]

#3 made me laugh hard for a minute. I couldn't help but picture people who have never played an MMO, let alone PvP or possibly never heard of PvP charging into a group of 4 all by their lonesome; and you standing back saying "*** man, I said hang a sec for everyone!".

 

I don't know, I just do not see it as a valid point. You are getting mad at BioWare/EA because there are terrible PvPers playing their game lol. Do not PvP for a while, give the noobs time to adjust to a type of play that is likely new to them. That or find some decent PvPers and be social, form a pre-made.

 

After all, MMO's are indeed a social game at the core are they not? Reiterating again from my many old posts, MMO does stand for Massively Multi-player Online.

[Zerbruz]

Playing against people on your server only is great, as long as the queues arent too long ofcourse.

 

This will make you get a reputation on your server, community gets better, you get friends remembering you and enemies hating you!

[Neil_S]

#3 made me laugh hard for a minute. I couldn't help but picture people who have never played an MMO, let alone PvP or possibly never heard of PvP charging into a group of 4 all by their lonesome; and you standing back saying "*** man, I said hang a sec for everyone!".

 

I don't know, I just do not see it as a valid point. You are getting mad at BioWare/EA because there are terrible PvPers playing their game lol. Do not PvP for a while, give the noobs time to adjust to a type of play that is likely new to them. That or find some decent PvPers and be social, form a pre-made.

 

After all, MMO's are indeed a social game at the core are they not? Reiterating again from my many old posts, MMO does stand for Massively Multi-player Online.

 

The thing is, most noobs won't adjust. They'll just leave. That is why I said it was Darwinistic. Fact is, you can have a team of great players, and they'll still have no chance of winning. Because the only team that's queueing up against them is equally skilled, better geared, and has better coordination tools. Happens all the time. People focus fire, go after the right people, take the correct strategic approach, and get absolutely slaughtered. That's part of the frustration - there is no feedback telling you that you're playing correctly and are simply doomed by not having grinded enough PvP rewards.

 

And again, if pre-made is a requirement for fun/success/avoiding frustration, then the game should require it as a condition for participation. It shouldn't make avenues of play available that the large majority of people who try them won't enjoy. That's just bad game design.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Neil_S

[Sethorin]

Just watched a Jugg literally tank an entire team after being pulled into the acid at the start of Huttball for a good 15 seconds.... then he passed the ball for a quick score.

 

This made me laugh too, again it is just bad PvPers. 15 seconds, that is it? An entire team could have surely kept him stunned for that duration, and the result would of been his death in the acid and the ball being turning over to the other team because he cannot pass while stunned correct(I never can I know that)?

 

1 of 2 things happened here:

 

1. The entire team were complete noob PvPers

or

2. You are exagerating

[touc]

@ points 1 and 2: The game can't win for you. I have no problems jumping into games and making a difference; even against premades.

[malignment]

OPs points 1,2, & 3 = entitlement mentality on display, and demonstrate what's wrong with the world today and correspondingly, MMOs

[buttski]

2. Geared up people win more easily, which means they get better gear faster, and it repeats. There should be some analysis of team power factored into commendation awards, at the very least.

 

wha..?!? in an mmo?!? this is SHOCKING news!

[Zintiel]

1. You play against people on your server, rather than having cross server play. This is bad design. You end up with the same people facing each other over and over within a certain time period, with the same results, since skill, gear, and coordination level aren't going to improve teamwide in that period.

 

Actually, it's rather fun seeing some of the same people. The lifeless randomness of WoW PvP was a bit like two bugs being thrown into a box and shaken until they attacked each other. I like knowing who are specific threats to avoid or target. I'm sure you'll get your way in time, despite it sucking for the rest of us who like same world pvp.

 

2. Geared up people win more easily, which means they get better gear faster, and it repeats. There should be some analysis of team power factored into commendation awards, at the very least.

 

And you're mad cause you're not geared up. QQ.

 

3. Losing every match for hours on end is frustrating. You should get more and more buff every time you lose a match. When you finally win, you reset back to normal. If you're bad, you'll still lose more of the time, but the occasional win when your team of losers finally gets so buff that they win will reduce the frustration without making the better players feel like they're getting gypped.

 

This is a horrible idea. Bad players get helped along enough, and when they don't win they sit there afk on the sidelines.

 

4. There is no way to boot afk players, which seem to be fairly common, at least on my server, especially when the same premade group of geared out 50s wails on you on every match because they're the only ones queueing.

 

There's no penalty to leaving the game (yet). If you see an afker, rather than throw your worthless heap at the enemy and letting them farm you, leave the game and join a new one. Chances are the afker's game will end and they will recieve nothing.

 

5. PvP gear is too good. Why can I buy a rank 23 barrel from a PvP vendor yet I can only make level 22 as a crafter? Asinine.

 

Level up your skills more? I dunno, I can make barrels usually about 10 levels ahead of where I actually am.

 

6. Open World PvP is complete garbage. People act based on incentives, and as a game designer you are supposed to use incentives to encourage them to play in fun ways. The incentives here just encourage people to avoid each other. Somewhat like Planetside, but without an "instant action" button. Whoever thought this was serviceable should not be allowed to design anything again.

 

There is probably going to to be more open world PvP, have some patience.

 

To those who say blah blah blah make your own premade and spend weeks losing so you can match your opponents' gear, I say...that's not fun. Games are supposed to be fun, and bad game design is at fault for the PVP system not being fun for anyone except those who love smacking down opponents who have absolutely 0% chance of beating them -which, admittedly, seems to be a decent % of the PvP player base.

 

Game design is at fault cause you specifically don't have fun. Right, clearly no one can have fun if you aren't. *PoP* Oops did I burst your bubble.

[Sethorin]

The thing is, most noobs won't adjust. They'll just leave. That is why I said it was Darwinistic. Fact is, you can have a team of great players, and they'll still have no chance of winning. Because the only team that's queueing up against them is equally skilled, better geared, and has better coordination tools. Happens all the time. People focus fire, go after the right people, take the correct strategic approach, and get absolutely slaughtered. That's part of the frustration - there is no feedback telling you that you're playing correctly and are simply doomed by not having grinded enough PvP rewards.

 

And again, if pre-made is a requirement for fun/success/avoiding frustration, then the game should require it as a condition for participation. It shouldn't make avenues of play available that the large majority of people who try them won't enjoy. That's just bad game design.

 

I am really having a hard time seeing any truth in your statements at this point. I have been on teams(yes, PUG teams not Pre-Mades) that have gone against better geared many time, one big difference is we communicated, coordinated, and obviously had the better strategy as we won.

 

I have been on teams where we were completely out DPS'd(Their entire team was above ours in DPS and kills) but we still won. Strategy, use your brain plain and simple. LEARN the enemy classes, LEARN their skills, LEARN ally classes, LEARN their skills, and then if ever you must, you are educated enough to give the noobs some direction in how to play their class in PvP, and how to fight the other classes in PvP.

 

Your rebuttal to this ^ will likely be "*** I need a degree to PvP and play an MMO now?". My answer is no, everyone can play however they like, but what I described above will grant obvious advantages. Use and exploit these advantages or get owned, it matters not to me in any way as you are likely not on my server.

 

This is simple advice for the simple minded looking for any easy out as per usual with this new generation of MMO players AND developers.

[dougan]

Explain to me why my ideas for mitigating this effect, such as cross-server play and progressive buffs when you lose, are bad ideas.

 

How would cross-server queues prevent premades?

 

And think about this scenario: you're solo queuing and you lose 5 in a row, get a huge progressive buff and on your 6th queue, you end up as one of the 4 extras with a premade. Now that premade is going to own even harder. Your suggestion potentially breaks the only mechanic that gives premades a chance to lose--their other four teammates.