Okay, Okay... So everyone DOES want Looking for Dungeon.

[monegames]

I'm going to tell my grandpa story now, but I promise it won't involve snow or hills.

 

 

Back in my day before one game in a sea of others added in a tool that happens to have been put in game just before it began hemorrhaging members (another rant), those shouts served a very important purpose. They got you to form groups with people who you otherwise would not have interacted with and (this is the important part) HAD THE CHANCE TO INTERACT WITH AGAIN.

 

You see, you would form a group and while you did your dungeon you would chat. You would get to know the person and their play style. You would learn a bit about them and if they were cool you would add them to your friend list, or possibly even your guild. This way, when you wanted to group up later you had a list of people who you could ask first, before resorting to shouting in trade/Jeuno/1/whatever. When this list was exhausted you started this process again.

 

Having these people ON YOUR SERVER and having a system where you could not just roll the dice meant that you actually had to build a reputation as the kind of person people WANT to play with. If you were a good DPS, when that tank from 2 weeks ago went to form a group he would send you a whisper to see if you wanted in. If you were a good healer you could expect that people would often ask if you wanted to run again. If you were generally just a joy to group with you could expect your pleas for assistance would not go unheeded.

 

But then ONE GAME put in a system to circumvent this process. ONE GAME decided it was more important to get people into the dungeons NOWNOWNOW than to make sure that they enjoyed being in them in the first place. And for some reason, even though they have lose 20% of their user base since making that decision, this is still considered the right move by some.

 

so instead of walking to school in the snow up hill both ways it was shouting in SW for 20/40 min to actually play the game then running to dungeon and waiting for the rest of the group then tank or healer gets call from guild for help and leaves and back to SW for another 20/40 min.

 

Also joining a group by LFD or shouts doesn't change the way the group interacts with one another. that is on the group members. I do see a problem with cross server grouping though you shouldnt be in contact with people on other servers in game. If the time to make groups is too long then server merging should be considered.

[Maigrey]

There's your answer. Outside of guilds, PuGs advocated nothing but the WORST behavior.

 

And that's my big statement other than the question: "Did you hear a whooshing noise as you hit post?"

 

I Lived in the LFD queue, I ran on average 4-5 LFDs a day from the time they added it, until I quit. LFD allowed me to play the game without bothering guildies that were busy doing other things.

 

I never once noticed a change in their attitudes other than getting bored with the game.

 

Maybe that was the issue, previously we couldn't play the game enough to get bored with it, then with LFD you could finally play it enough to get bored.

[Aethyrprime]

I vote for cross server flash points with a nice little homing beacon warp right to the door. After all We already have both a fleet beacon and a door in the fleet to appear right inside the flashpoint. Anyone against these two features probably hasn't played the game yet to know this.

[Balthrax]

I Lived in the LFD queue, I ran on average 4-5 LFDs a day from the time they added it, until I quit. LFD allowed me to play the game without bothering guildies that were busy doing other things.

 

I never once noticed a change in their attitudes other than getting bored with the game.

 

Maybe that was the issue, previously we couldn't play the game enough to get bored with it, then with LFD you could finally play it enough to get bored.

 

You are one of the most luckiest people I've ever seen if you never ran into horrible LFD groups. Those stories on the WoW forums are true. They happened to me. Without the people being on their server, most figure: "Hey, I can act like a jackarse and get away with it!" Wehereas before you had to be good, or you'd be blacklisted from most groups for acting the way some of the people I've seen act.

 

So yes, it will happen terribly if it is NOT server-only.

[Saint-Ange]

A LFF tool is only useful for people with a bad or no reputation at all on a server.

Building a reputation is essential and all reputations together build the community.

 

I can read often some people saying : "oh because you liked to idle in capitals waiting for a group or raid?"

 

I answer this here : good team players with good reputation never wait, not even two minutes.

 

But of course, those who yield for such a tool, never knew that till I write it here.

Because we take pleasure to do not even explain that to them but mostly because the community want to stay clean of some kind of guys.

Those of such communities don't even write a single word on the general chat, or in forums, it is not forbidden to do it as a member but it isn't appreciated at all. So consider, me writing this here a present for the beginning of the year.

We are not elitists, we are a majority, those who can't or don't care about building slightly their reputation are a minority.

Often when you put a bunch of 20-50 people on ignore list your are quiet with the hundreds or thousands of others.

 

Reputation is not only a slider you push forward by farming, killing mobs or crafting an exchange currency.

 

Also, and to finish, I like to join an instance by travelling to its gate.

I won't stay in a game, that you can jump into a dungeon from anywhere else.

In the MMORPG, the RPG still remain the most important letters of the acronym.

 

So I say NO to anything that can break my immersion.

SWTOR is a niche MMO. Not yet, but it will be in a couple of months.

Because GW2 is coming for example, because some will realize one day, that FPS fits better to PvP, because one day many will realize that MMO are not their genre, but they are on them just because they are bored and cannot imagine what they could do instead leaving it to dive back into the TV.

 

Then who will we find on this game? Those who love Star Wars, and gladly they are a bunch in the all world. So going against their immersion would be such a mistake.

 

Allowing LFF Tool is allowing bad behavior, in team play and in general chat because there will be no consequences.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Saint-Ange

[Maigrey]

You are one of the most luckiest people I've ever seen if you never ran into horrible LFD groups. Those stories on the WoW forums are true. They happened to me. Without the people being on their server, most figure: "Hey, I can act like a jackarse and get away with it!" Wehereas before you had to be good, or you'd be blacklisted from most groups for acting the way some of the people I've seen act.

 

So yes, it will happen terribly if it is NOT server-only.

 

*******es only happen when groups fail. People feel they are entitled to an easy run with no wipes, and if something goes wrong or they think something will go wrong, they act like children. My groups didnt fail, I can easily carry just about any baddie, and solo pretty much any dungeon in WoW.

 

When you enter the instance and you see a tank in full endgame gear, you realize that it will be a smooth run, and you just chill and enjoy it.

 

If you are having problems in LFD it isnt the tool it is the players, and perahps even your own fault for not being able to carry the group, and make it an easy run with no problems.

[monegames]

You are one of the most luckiest people I've ever seen if you never ran into horrible LFD groups. Those stories on the WoW forums are true. They happened to me. Without the people being on their server, most figure: "Hey, I can act like a jackarse and get away with it!" Wehereas before you had to be good, or you'd be blacklisted from most groups for acting the way some of the people I've seen act.

 

So yes, it will happen terribly if it is NOT server-only.

 

they never said they didnt run into bad groups just that they didnt see a change in the percentage of bad groups they ran into. the only reason that you see more bad groups is because you are seeing more groups in general. I very rarely ran into someone that ninjaed or afked were i was not able to kick or just drop the group. heck i rarely ran into either of those and i ran both tank and healer.

[Balthrax]

*******es only happen when groups fail. People feel they are entitled to an easy run with no wipes, and if something goes wrong or they think something will go wrong, they act like children. My groups didnt fail, I can easily carry just about any baddie, and solo pretty much any dungeon in WoW.

 

When you enter the instance and you see a tank in full endgame gear, you realize that it will be a smooth run, and you just chill and enjoy it.

 

If you are having problems in LFD it isnt the tool it is the players, and perahps even your own fault for not being able to carry the group, and make it an easy run with no problems.

 

As a former tank, I had no way to rain on my PoS comp. The problem is with immature people who think acting like a jerk is cool. One time, a healer couldn't keep me up through a fault of his own. (Healer was in full... I think it was BH gear.) Know what he did? He cussed me out, sat at the entrance, and called me a scrub for wasting everyone's time.

 

Ever since that *******, none of my runs had gone any better, so ultimately, I just quit the tool after the 300th failure of a DPS who decided his e-peen is more important than group success... So I started RPing. Been happier since.

 

If Bioware decides to put it cross-server, and not server-only, then they'll lose me and my $77 every six months.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Balthrax

[Maigrey]

So going against their immersion would be such a mistake.

 

 

This is such a load of BS. I want to play a game, in which I am playing the role of a video game character.

 

The simple fact that it is a video game has already removed any and all immersion. I suppose people like you are against PvP Queues, against instant travel times from planet to planet, maybe you would prefer the years of travel time it might take.

 

I bet you never use your quick travel or fleet pass or auction house or fleet pass.

 

This game has no immersion.

 

What do you just /suicide after your character takes a single balster bolt to the chest, and then roll a new one, cause rezzing makes no sense adn breaks immersion.

 

There are so many other things that are far worse offenders to immersion in the game, you need to go after those first IMO, heck where are the toilets at?

Edited January 1, 2012 by Maigrey

[Dafydd]

I don't want to be stood in a city for all eternity while I just wait for different queues to pop and teleport me here and there.

You do realise you're currently effectively stuck in a city looking for a group at the moment right? And that an LFG tool would free you up to leave that city and carry on with whatever else you want to do while waiting? All those people hanging around in SW/Org aren't there because LFD makes them wait there, it's because they've run out of other things to do.

[Lokiliesmith]

I think the comment about people who built rep on their servers not wanting the tool is probably true, judging from how these arguments go. One side wants LFF because they feel like otherwise they cannot get groups. The other side believes groups are easy to get if you are a good player.

 

I, personally, am inclined to believe the latter. It has always been my experience that a good player, regardless of class, spec, role, or gear, will be able to form a group for anything in a few minutes using their network of contacts gained mostly through their good play. Does this punish less skilled or less social players? Yep! And it should. Learn to play or learn to communicate more effectively, whichever is your deficiency, and your experience will be improved for it.

 

 

EDIT: And I know what's coming: "I am a skilled/social, but this doesn't happen for me." Newsflash, if you think you're a good player but people cannot be bothered to look for you when they need help or to fill out a group you are not that good of a player. Compliments don't mean anything if they forget who you are the minute you're gone. Be good enough to leave an impression.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Lokiliesmith

[Saint-Ange]

1- This is such a load of BS. I want to play a game, in which I am playing the role of a video game character.

 

2- The simple fact that it is a video game has already removed any and all immersion.

I suppose people like you are against PvP Queues, against instant travel times from planet to planet, maybe you would prefer the years of travel time it might take.

 

I bet you never use your quick travel or fleet pass or auction house or fleet pass.

 

This game has no immersion.

 

What do you just /suicide after your character takes a single balster bolt to the chest, and then roll a new one, cause rezzing makes no sense adn breaks immersion.

 

There are so many other things that are far worse offenders to immersion in the game, you need to go after those first IMO, heck where are the toilets at?

 

1- Instead of using BS, say the words, don't be a coward.

 

2- I'm against battlegrounds, warping is not against immersion, same for taxis, AH etc. Then about death, you've got a point, but that doesn't mean a RPG can do the deal without putting players in immersion, otherwise none of them would even be created.

 

So I'm not afraid to say you tempt to bull.s.h.i.t me but I'm not a 3 weeks old rabbit.

You have absolutely no knowledge of RPG or MMORPG, imagine a second, Bioware people coming here certifying that they don't care about immersion, because after all it is all about that.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Saint-Ange

[Maigrey]

I think the comment about people who built rep on their servers not wanting the tool is probably true, judging from how these arguments go. One side wants LFF because they feel like otherwise they cannot get groups. The other side believes groups are easy to get if you are a good player.

 

I, personally, am inclined to believe the latter. It has always been my experience that a good player, regardless of class, spec, role, or gear, will be able to form a group for anything in a few minutes using their network of contacts gained mostly through their good play. Does this punish less skilled or less social players? Yep! And it should. Learn to play or learn to communicate more effectively, whichever is your deficiency, and your experience will be improved for it.

 

 

EDIT: And I know what's coming: "I am a skilled/social, but this doesn't happen for me." Newsflash, if you think you're a good player but people cannot be bothered to look for you when they need help or to fill out a group you are not that good of a player. Compliments don't mean anything if they forget who you are the minute you're gone. Be good enough to leave an impression.

 

This is just not true, at least not for me.

 

I was a solid player, and was GM and raid leader for one of the biggest guilds on my server, and a top end guild for most of the time I was intereted in the game. I loved LFD, because it allowed me to run the stuff I felt like running without bothering my friends. If anyone needed help I was always there for them.

 

I may want to run an occulos, no else does, and I don't feel like taking the time to find people, could be hours and may never happen, LFD is there for me.

 

I could easily whisper my friends and get them to help me out and do something they don't want to do, but why, when I can find 4 people that do want to run that instance and help them get through it.

[Maigrey]

1- Instead of using BS, say the words, don't be a coward.

 

I fail to see how using the a common abbreviation is any measure of my courage.

 

2- I'm against battlegrounds, warping is not against immersion, same for taxis, AH etc. Then about death, you've got a point, but that doesn't mean a RPG can do the deal without putting players in immersion, otherwise none of them would even be created.

 

 

Warping is against immerssion, when the universe you are in has no warp mechanic and only a hyperspace mechanic, that fails to allow for instant travel.

 

AH allows for teleportation as well as the mail system.

 

Fleet pass and Quick travel are also teleportation, I love the part where I am sitting in the basement of some hutt palace and a shuttle flys down there to whisk me away via quick travel. It is great for immersion.

 

Oh and my companion being able to constantly teleport does wonders for it.

[Saint-Ange]

Nice story.

 

I met so many people saying they were at high end raiding and GM or raid leaders.

So I guess you can tell us which server, guild, name of your toon, the leader one, and of course like all of us who did high end raiding you have some screen-shots with your character and guild name appearing on it to show us right?

 

Till you prove what you say, Permit me to do not believe you.

[Rheinland]

1- Instead of using BS, say the words, don't be a coward.

 

2- I'm against battlegrounds, warping is not against immersion, same for taxis, AH etc. Then about death, you've got a point, but that doesn't mean a RPG can do the deal without putting players in immersion, otherwise none of them would even be created.

 

So I'm not afraid to say you tempt to bull.s.h.i.t me but I'm not a 3 weeks old rabbit.

You have absolutely no knowledge of RPG or MMORPG, imagine a second, Bioware people coming here certifying that they don't care about immersion, because after all it is all about that.

 

Your immersion is breaking my immersion for the sake of immersion. IMMERSION!

[Saint-Ange]

Well immersion is an other subject, I agree on that.

 

So if there are so much people who want that tool, and are also so much who do not want it :

 

There are enough servers to share us.

Some with this implementation some without and everybody will be happy.

 

Edit : And people like me on RP servers will probably do not want it at the condition they are real role players.

Edited January 1, 2012 by Saint-Ange

[HavenAE]

First of all, Happy New Year, if you're someone who cares about that; which you are probably not, if you are on the forums right now.

 

Second of all, if you hate the color orange... sorry.

 

After making my last thread... I stand corrected. Everyone definitely wants a LFD tool.

 

Because it was impossible to keep up with all you guys... Here are my thoughts.

 

I'm talking about the now. It would be perfectly fine to implement the LFD for those flashpoints when that time comes. That doesn't mean you have to implement it for every flashpoint in the game... ecspecially the brand new content. You could cycle LFD into each individual flashpoint as they get older and more useless.

 

 

I would compromise for this... Possibly go as far as saying I would want that. I think a lot of my issues with the system stemmed from the cross server part.

 

 

Not that I completely disagree with the fact that its annoying. But "hours on end" ?! ... It is not that hard to find groups for current content. Not that I'm 50 yet, but I've found a group for a flashpoint within 10-15 minutes every time I've tried, except once. And that one time, I found something else to do. I'm sure it's harder as you get toward max level right now, just because everyone doesn't level at the same speed.

 

 

I think because they are all together, it makes it easier to find a group. But a LFD would still let you port in from any corner of any planet... So your correlation between standing in the fleet and LFD don't really make sense to me.

 

 

 

 

Which goes back to the main point of my post. Not necessarily that a lot of people don't want LFD specifically... But there are a thousand suggestions going through the forums that I don't feel like represent the majority. A lot of them point to making everything easier and more convenient = better; I don't necessarily think thats better.

The reason I choose LFD as my main point was because I thought I'd get a bigger response out of it.

 

 

It's not that simple. I can always choose to not use a feature... and many times I do. But the feature being in the game for others to use can still affect me in other ways. Yes, I used LFD in WoW. Yes, when I could, I ran with friends and guildies; it builds the friendship / teamwork, and you know what you can get out of your group.

 

 

I think there are a few big reasons for that..

1. People are enjoying / getting less bored with quests than usual.

2. Gear you receive while questing is just as good as gear in flashpoints.

3. Flashpoints aren't in each zone, they are in one location. As you level, a lot of people don't stop by the space station very often. If you were in a zone and asked who wanted to run a flashpoint (located in that zone), I bet you would get a lot of response.

 

 

I know right!

What about a server only LFD with a perfered players list / avoid players list?

 

I don't mind a LFG/D tool so long as that tool isn't cross server.

[JimG]

No, everyone doesn't want one. Also, there are no dungeons in this game. The LFD terminology is used so often with these requests that it leads me to believe only WoW players are requesting this and only because WoW has one and they are used to that system. CoH has a version of this and no one even uses it for high level trials. People go to a common meeting place and form all the incarnate trials through general chat. I could usually form 24 person trial teams in 5-15 minutes through general chat. And people here can't get 2-3 people together for a heroic?

[Kabloosh]

I think the comment about people who built rep on their servers not wanting the tool is probably true, judging from how these arguments go. One side wants LFF because they feel like otherwise they cannot get groups. The other side believes groups are easy to get if you are a good player.

 

I, personally, am inclined to believe the latter. It has always been my experience that a good player, regardless of class, spec, role, or gear, will be able to form a group for anything in a few minutes using their network of contacts gained mostly through their good play. Does this punish less skilled or less social players? Yep! And it should. Learn to play or learn to communicate more effectively, whichever is your deficiency, and your experience will be improved for it.

 

 

EDIT: And I know what's coming: "I am a skilled/social, but this doesn't happen for me." Newsflash, if you think you're a good player but people cannot be bothered to look for you when they need help or to fill out a group you are not that good of a player. Compliments don't mean anything if they forget who you are the minute you're gone. Be good enough to leave an impression.

 

The social aspect of an MMO is a hard one. Lots of "good" MMO players are eccentric to say the least and a lot of them won't give you the time of day when you say hello to them. Compound that with being the possibility of being the underpowered class and you are going to be experiencing some unfair discrimination.

 

It can take weeks or months to form those levels of bonds with other players as well. That can be a lot of work for those who can only devote a few hours a day or even a week. Its really not fair to say the least. Besides, most players in such an established circle of friends shouldn't need to worry about a LFD system. They can just hook up with friends tackle a dozen or so dungeons and do their thing while the random pugging can be left up to those who cannot devote their life to their internet friends.

[Marmerus]

False. Definitely false.

 

 

That said if they do add one I'm ok so long as it is in server ONLY. If they implement cross server I'm done. It killed the wow community, I won't watch it happen here.

Not having one killed Age of Conan. So you either want a "destroyed" community or a destroyed game.

[JasonSlam]

The day they implement this is the day I unsubscribe to the game. It is not as simple as the one person that said just don't use it.... Well obviously if it is in the game the people that you use to group with start to use it, and then I am stuck having to use it to just get into a instance.

 

Sorry for throwing a WoW reference in here, but I remember back when doing Shadowlabs and having to take over an hour at the start to clear it, and having breaks in between socializing and enjoying not just the challenge of the instance, but the conversations in between bosses, or whatever. (yea I know it is TBC, I could reference vanilla and 15 man Blackrock Spire if you wish)

 

Fast forward to LFD and cross server LFD what did we get. 15 min spam fests, with no one talking, and even trying to strike a conversation would be motive to get you kicked from the group, as well as guilds that use to be filled with conversations and discussions replaced to an entire ghost town in the social department.

 

So I have no interest in a game that puts this feature in for cross, or server only. Join a guild, make friends and you wont have a problem running instances whenever you want.

Edited January 1, 2012 by JasonSlam

[Maigrey]

Nice story.

 

I met so many people saying they were at high end raiding and GM or raid leaders.

So I guess you can tell us which server, guild, name of your toon, the leader one, and of course like all of us who did high end raiding you have some screen-shots with your character and guild name appearing on it to show us right?

 

Till you prove what you say, Permit me to do not believe you.

 

I wish I can prove it, I am no longer GM, I cancelled my website and since we stopped progression in cata we are no longer listed on WoWprogress.

 

The guild is dead at this point, and basically died with cata launch.

 

Here is the link for it. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/guild/shadowmoon/Bamboozlers/roster

 

My mains were Teraxe and Masawme

[Marmerus]

So I have no interest in a game that puts this feature in for cross, or server only. Join a guild, make friends and you wont have a problem running instances whenever you want.

They said that in Age of Conan also.

 

Still nobody doing any dungeons. Not even the people in the guilds.

[JasonSlam]

I can't speak for Conan since I have not played it. I never had issues running instances in WoW at anytime asking in guild. A lot of people from my guild actually moved to Star Wars with me, so I doubt this will be an issue as well. Of course it depends on how interesting they make the instances as well, and challenging objectives. I know I ran Strat Undead over 100 times for people doing the baron 45, and still one of my favorite instances.

 

Also probably not going to be a popular idea for some is implement some sort of resistance fights into operations. Another reason instances were ran frequently outside of raids was because people needed to gear up for certain fights whether it be fire, or frost resistance.

Edited January 1, 2012 by JasonSlam