It's the animations ... Wow just wow /boggle

[mufutiz]

I wanna take this seriously but I just can't it feels like I'm reading

 

The sword of darksdune for my factions does 100 dps with 2.1 speed.

The sword of lightsdune for their faction does 101 dps because it has 2.0 speed.

 

 

The difference is so small that it doesnt even matter unless you were to spreadsheet it, and if your spreadsheeting to get the outcome for how many times you'll get killed in PVP because of .1 or .2 seconds. You have bigger problems then animations my friend.

 

Your post oozes ignorance.

 

Trooper/BH animation difference for their AoE makes the difference between causing some serious damage and enemies lol'ing at you while they run out of the AoE marker while you self-root yourself for 0 damage.

 

 

Same with smuggler/operative stun. It is a MASSIVE difference being able to stun your enemy on the move and self-rooting you so your character can finish a clunky combat animation.

[Andrew_Waltfeld]

The BH/trooper

There was a topic earlier today on the discussion of MV and DFA. We even mapped out the times it took from casting (clicking the ability and letting it activate) to the end. There's a .2 difference between start-up... Usually. Trooper was 1.5 and DFA was 1.7.

 

For whatever odd reason, we had several videos and people on both empire and republic had delayed DFA/MV.

 

For example:

 

This is my typical Mortar volley:

 

 

Someone would have to be eating or not paying attention in order not to dodge that.

 

something is throwing the animations out of sync or something cause some were faster. Some DFA were slower than my trooper. Some were faster. Something is definitely up.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Andrew_Waltfeld

[Part_Time_Hero]

Did you read my post? I agreed that they should change them.

 

I understand the unbalance this creates. And it should 100% be fixed. However, its a tiny unbalance and is going to be almost 100% inconsequential until some form of actual competitive PvP is in place. So QQing about it is dumb. This thread would be fine if you had just pointed out the differences and said they need to be fixed, hell you could have even complained a little. Instead you cry a bunch and say ridiculously overblown things like what I quoted in my last post.

 

 

 

 

I'm simply calling you out on the excessive whining, nothing more.

 

 

You have no clue how big these things are obviously

 

At all ...

 

 

These are NOT small inconsequential discrepancies

 

These are big big things

 

This is not whining this is telling it like it is

 

Just because you are not able to grasp the severe tilt and impact this has almost completely for one side doesn't make it any less urgent to fix

 

You really need to grasp just how huge this is

 

I think your trolling personally and think you enjoy the advantage on empire side

 

But that's just my opinion

 

The facts I stated are still correct

[Shammus]

There are many threads about this ... With average imperial players saying everything is fine and average republic players saying something is wrong I can't be this bad at PvP

 

I am going to preface this with I am not an average player and belong to a 150 person republic guild who have been together a LONG time in PVP game

 

Heh maybe longer than some who are playing have been alive

 

When we load up our pre-made team speaks we win about 80% of the time if one or two more get in the cue with four its all but won before it starts

 

With that said however that is just from playing together a long time and team speak

 

We still see the imbalance in animations and it's just wrong that secs could be so dumb thinking these animation time differences wouldn't effect game lol guess devs were serious when so many of them said they were going empire .... We see why

 

IA/smuggler dirty kick ... Animation problem advantage empire

BH/trooper death from above etc ... Animations again ... Advantage empire

SI/JC Lightening vs stones animation delay again advantage empire

 

I mean what the heck bioware ....

 

How can you screw up delays so bad ???? And ALL for one side????

 

Pve none of this matters and mirroring working

 

PvP the animation delays are making it a very lopsided engagement particularly in random groups no pre mades and equally matched team speak pre mades

 

 

 

If you do not understand difference in mirroring and time delays on animations and stopping to cast vs not stopping please do not post and make yourself sound incredibly dumb

 

My legitimate factual two cents

 

 

 

 

bounty hunter dfa, and trooper mv have proven that your statement is false.. the first two rounds from commando actually hit the target sooner then the first two of the bounty hunter.. and the last round of commando hits last

 

the differences are so small you'd never notice them playing the only differences people are looking at is animations

 

when targets take damage right around 1.7 seconds the first hit for both classes.

[Rankith]

You have no clue how big these things are obviously

 

At all ...

 

 

These are NOT small inconsequential discrepancies

 

These are big big things

 

This is not whining this is telling it like it is

 

Just because you are not able to grasp the severe tilt and impact this has almost completely for one side doesn't make it any less urgent to fix

 

You really need to grasp just how huge this is

 

I think your trolling personally and think you enjoy the advantage on empire side

 

But that's just my opinion

 

The facts I stated are still correct

 

wow, please read my posts if you are going to continue to respond.

 

They are relatively small compared to how overblown you are making them considering THERE IS NO COMPETITIVE PVP CURRENTLY. This should be fixed, and brought to the devs attention, it does not need a QQ thread like this however. I see a very short list of facts in this thread, and then a whole heck of a lot of whining.

 

You keep talking about me being unable to grasp how big they are, I grasp it plenty, I know its unbalanced and needs to be fixed, as I have said again and again and you continue to ignore. So I'm saying again right here that I understand they need to be fixed. Let me re-iterate so you can maybe get this. I understand they need to be fixed. Got it?

 

Now as for my point. There is no competitive PvP, if there was it would be one thing, but there isn't there is no reason for this amount of whining. Since you seem to think it makes a difference in almost every game you lose (which is what I think you are saying, am I wrong?), lets create an example

 

Lets take DFA vs MV. Say you are in alderaan and fighting over mid at the start so its a big fight. Your trooper spots a nice cluster of imps and unleashes his MV. The imps get out of the way nice and fast like and take no damage. At the same time, a BH unleashed DFA into a cluster of republic players, they also react right away and move away, but, due to this inbalance they get hit by a tick or two and take a small chunk of damage, whereas the empire players did not. This has created a difference in life totals of the players, and the advantage has clearly been given to the empire players. But it is still small, and ONLY DECIDES THE OUTCOME OF THAT BATTLE IF IT WAS GOING TO BE VERY VERY CLOSE. Which most games won't be.

 

Yes, that sucks. Yes, it needs to be fixed. No, you shouldn't blame your losses on it. No, you don't need to whine about it.

 

To be honest, based on your OP, and how you are pretty significantly talking down to others in this thread, you seem like you think pretty highly of yourself. Yet at the same time you have a very bad record for how "good" you are. This just screams to me that you are coming here to complain more than anything else.

 

Also, you really don't seem to be reading much of any response and instead skim for agree/disagree and then respond based solely on that. For instance this:

think you enjoy the advantage on empire side

When I clearly stated I was a republic player in my first post. If you are saying you don't believe me when I say that. Look at the link in my sig, why would I maintain a Sentinel guide if I'm empire?

[hoylejeremy]

Of course I agree with the OP.

 

This is absolutely terrible and should be fixed as soon as possible.

[Shammus]

Lets take DFA vs MV. Say you are in alderaan and fighting over mid at the start so its a big fight. Your trooper spots a nice cluster of imps and unleashes his MV. The imps get out of the way nice and fast like and take no damage. At the same time, a BH unleashed DFA into a cluster of republic players, they also react right away and move away, but, due to this inbalance they get hit by a tick or two and take a small chunk of damage, whereas the empire players did not. This has created a difference in life totals of the players, and the advantage has clearly been given to the empire players. But it is still small, and ONLY DECIDES THE OUTCOME OF THAT BATTLE IF IT WAS GOING TO BE VERY VERY CLOSE. Which most games won't be.

 

Again tested and timed.. the activation time from click to overhead dmg is actually slightly faster then the BH

 

The quick animation of us launching into the air and firing the first missile IS NOT when the players actually take damage.

 

Players have just as much time to move out of the way as you do for MV .. actually players have .03 seconds LONGER to move when a bh does it then when a commando does it.

[Caan]

Why do Imperials win more often?

 

~70% Inquisitor

 

Why does the Republic lose more often?

 

~80% Knight

 

 

This is so true!

I know that a lot of my guildies that haden't tried the game during beta rolled sentinels and guardians at launch, most of them have re-rolled now.

[Divona]

Very interesting thread. The picture becoming clear now. I wondered why troopers and other classes get killed so fast and they dont add much to pvp.

 

It could be very well what is happening currently why empire rolling over most rep side and win in most servers.

I noticed quite some time ago when i started pvp, that wf where you have choke points and need alot aoe or cc the empire beats easily republic side. It seems to me empire classes are better when it comes to delivering aoe as fast as possible and also being more mobile.

All those one class OP threads are pointless, as it seems whole system is broken currently.

 

I didnt know many rep classes are in worse shape than mirror on other side. I know Inq have advanatage over sage. i know operative is better, but trooper and rest also?

 

My god what a mess bioware.

[Zeromentor]

I wanna take this seriously but I just can't it feels like I'm reading

 

The sword of darksdune for my factions does 100 dps with 2.1 speed.

The sword of lightsdune for their faction does 101 dps because it has 2.0 speed.

 

 

The difference is so small that it doesnt even matter unless you were to spreadsheet it, and if your spreadsheeting to get the outcome for how many times you'll get killed in PVP because of .1 or .2 seconds. You have bigger problems then animations my friend.

 

Sadly it's not 100 and 2.1 versus 101 and 2.0

 

It's 4k damage and 0.5 versus 4k and 1.5 seconds delay.

 

How far can you get in 1.5 seconds? How long does it take a competent gamer to interrupt an ability that doesn't function for 1.5 seconds before doing damage? That's a whole GCD worth of nothing that gives the enemy time to FINISH an attack and then interrupt OURS and that is just for Mortar Volley as a Vanguard.

 

Seriously, watch the channel bar. 1.5 whole seconds before you fire, and then it's a few hundred miliseconds before contact and damage applies. That means if you are in the middle of an 8 meter AoE, you only have to travel 5 meters in any direction to get out of it before it lands. That means NO DAMAGE and a waste of 3 seconds worth of time and 3 ammo (out of 12 ammo).

 

Not a match-loser, but it counts during Voidstar or Alderaan when you are trying to stop a bomber or turret capper.

And then there is everything else listed. Bugs that CAN and need to be fixed ASAP, just for this reason alone.

 

Mortar Volley is nearly useless outside of chaotic melees with 5+ people, not watching the ground.

[Caan]

Very interesting thread. The picture becoming clear now. I wondered why troopers and other classes get killed so fast and they dont add much to pvp.

 

It could be very well what is happening currently why empire rolling over most rep side and win in most servers.

I noticed quite some time ago when i started pvp, that wf where you have choke points and need alot aoe or cc the empire beats easily republic side. It seems to me empire classes are better when it comes to delivering aoe as fast as possible and also being more mobile.

All those one class OP threads are pointless, as it seems whole system is broken currently.

 

I didnt know many rep classes are in worse shape than mirror on other side. I know Inq have advanatage over sage. i know operative is better, but trooper and rest also?

 

My god what a mess bioware.

 

Atleast the warriors and the knights are equally bad, the big differance is that you hardly ever see a warrior.

[KaiHeilos]

I want this to get fixed simply so I can see what all the bad players in this thread blame next for sucking at PvP.

[ZuperTrooper]

As a vanguard, I can only add my '*** Bioware' contribution to this thread.

 

Oh, and don't forget about Full Auto losing a tick when hit.

Edited January 2, 2012 by ZuperTrooper

[Miffy]

http://www.twitch.tv/taugrim/b/304280031

 

Yet this guy always seems to win...

[blackcerberus]

I'm sorry but that's a crap excuse I've heard for 10 days now

 

It does not cut it The only peeps saying that are empire players

 

It's the animations it's the animations it's the animations

 

Did I say it's the animations ???

 

or the weather, or the price of gas

 

any excuse will do for baddies...

[AnimalPotential]

No offense, but all of you need to stop for a second and think.

 

Want to argue imbalance?

 

Lets look at Sith inquisitor vs jedi Consular.

More specifically, Force Lightning vs "The pebbles".

 

Force lightning - Pure damage, no other effects.

Pebbles - Higher damage and slows people down as well as interupts abilities.

 

Thats a ******** more then just a second on an animation, and its currently being complained about on BOTH the republic and the empire side.

 

And I am sorry, but Furious Angels cant blame this on the animations, the reason that Furious Angels usually loose in a warzone, almost 90% of the time I see them is that they lack tactics, they spread out, and it seems like 90% of their members does not know how to use proper rotations on their classes.

 

Its got NOTHING to do with animations, and after running hundreds of warzones, ive seen enough pvp to separate a second delay loss, from a person who lost due to a complete lack of knowledge on how to use his class.

[ProfessorWalsh]

No offense, but all of you need to stop for a second and think.

 

Want to argue imbalance?

 

Lets look at Sith inquisitor vs jedi Consular.

More specifically, Force Lightning vs "The pebbles".

 

Force lightning - Pure damage, no other effects.

Pebbles - Higher damage and slows people down as well as interupts abilities.

 

Thats a ******** more then just a second on an animation, and its currently being complained about on BOTH the republic and the empire side.

 

And I am sorry, but Furious Angels cant blame this on the animations, the reason that Furious Angels usually loose in a warzone, almost 90% of the time I see them is that they lack tactics, they spread out, and it seems like 90% of their members does not know how to use proper rotations on their classes.

 

Its got NOTHING to do with animations, and after running hundreds of warzones, ive seen enough pvp to separate a second delay loss, from a person who lost due to a complete lack of knowledge on how to use his class.

 

Sorry dude, but the tests were done on this even in Beta. BioWare favored the Empire when they designed certain elements. The fact is the Imperial classes do have *slightly* faster animations and this does lend a *slight* edge.

 

The biggest problem with PVP is that something like 50% of the Empire players are Inquisitors and Inquisitors and Sages need a nerf.

[hoylejeremy]

No offense, but all of you need to stop for a second and think.

 

Want to argue imbalance?

 

Lets look at Sith inquisitor vs jedi Consular.

More specifically, Force Lightning vs "The pebbles".

 

Force lightning - Pure damage, no other effects.

Pebbles - Higher damage and slows people down as well as interupts abilities.

 

Thats a ******** more then just a second on an animation, and its currently being complained about on BOTH the republic and the empire side.

 

And I am sorry, but Furious Angels cant blame this on the animations, the reason that Furious Angels usually loose in a warzone, almost 90% of the time I see them is that they lack tactics, they spread out, and it seems like 90% of their members does not know how to use proper rotations on their classes.

 

Its got NOTHING to do with animations, and after running hundreds of warzones, ive seen enough pvp to separate a second delay loss, from a person who lost due to a complete lack of knowledge on how to use his class.

 

Umm... no.

 

Force Lightning

http://www.torhead.com/ability/a0biEva

 

Telekinetic Throw

http://www.torhead.com/ability/hvB6RtQ

[Shammus]

Sadly it's not 100 and 2.1 versus 101 and 2.0

 

It's 4k damage and 0.5 versus 4k and 1.5 seconds delay.

 

How far can you get in 1.5 seconds? How long does it take a competent gamer to interrupt an ability that doesn't function for 1.5 seconds before doing damage? That's a whole GCD worth of nothing that gives the enemy time to FINISH an attack and then interrupt OURS and that is just for Mortar Volley as a Vanguard.

 

Seriously, watch the channel bar. 1.5 whole seconds before you fire, and then it's a few hundred miliseconds before contact and damage applies. That means if you are in the middle of an 8 meter AoE, you only have to travel 5 meters in any direction to get out of it before it lands. That means NO DAMAGE and a waste of 3 seconds worth of time and 3 ammo (out of 12 ammo).

 

Not a match-loser, but it counts during Voidstar or Alderaan when you are trying to stop a bomber or turret capper.

And then there is everything else listed. Bugs that CAN and need to be fixed ASAP, just for this reason alone.

 

Mortar Volley is nearly useless outside of chaotic melees with 5+ people, not watching the ground.

 

 

*SIGH* more mortar volley is slower the DFA ******** posts.. again.. its been proven at max range for both classes that its EXACTLY 1.7 seconds from start to damage. for bounty hunter its 1.73

[Rankith]

No offense, but all of you need to stop for a second and think.

 

Want to argue imbalance?

 

Lets look at Sith inquisitor vs jedi Consular.

More specifically, Force Lightning vs "The pebbles".

 

Force lightning - Pure damage, no other effects.

Pebbles - Higher damage and slows people down as well as interupts abilities.

 

Thats a ******** more then just a second on an animation, and its currently being complained about on BOTH the republic and the empire side.

 

And I am sorry, but Furious Angels cant blame this on the animations, the reason that Furious Angels usually loose in a warzone, almost 90% of the time I see them is that they lack tactics, they spread out, and it seems like 90% of their members does not know how to use proper rotations on their classes.

 

Its got NOTHING to do with animations, and after running hundreds of warzones, ive seen enough pvp to separate a second delay loss, from a person who lost due to a complete lack of knowledge on how to use his class.

 

Yeah your wrong about the pebbles/lightning thing.

 

That said, the second part of your post is spot on. I don't like calling people bads. But at this point, it really seems like OP is just a bad and looking for excuses

[Mackuss]

IA flash bomb is 90 seconds

 

lol shut up. It's a minute cooldown.

[Mackuss]

If you are dying because of an extra second of a long animation then you were going to die anyway. Face the facts that 1-2 seconds really only matters in certain situations. Could it determine a match yes. But every fight. No way. This is just qq due to bad teammates/teamwork.

 

Oh okay, this guy's right guys. Let's all go home. The game's perfect. It needs absolutely no tweaking and the delays are perfectly fine if they're all on Republic.

 

Nothing to see here guys.

[Mackuss]

Seeing as this is the first i've heard of it in the forums, I don't think many people knew about it, including beta testers (I've got friends that beta tested as well that had no idea)

 

 

If you knew about the animation lag, why didn't you go empire?

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=105955

 

: )

[Verita]

Wouldn't that just mean we have twice as many lowbies aswell? Meaning the average match would still just have 2 50s on both sides.

 

Yeah, it would. But for a few days now I've seen a lot(!) more level 50's on Empire teams than on Republic. -- Also the average team level is significantly higher on Empire side.

 

Maybe that's because the people playing Empire don't have as many twinks? I don't know.

[Fdzzaigl]

Why do Imperials win more often?

 

~70% Inquisitor

 

Why does the Republic lose more often?

 

~80% Knight

 

Honestly, this shouldn't be ignored either, and there's definitely an imbalance there. Even more so, most consulars on the republic roll shadow in my experience, while it's inherently more useful to have sages (no offence shadows) as they can heal and generally stay back, out of range of the opposite side.

 

As a trooper, I have definitely noticed the annoyances while using mortar volley: you have to come to a full stop (and even then it might fail if you have lag) and then wait about 1.5s for your guy to start firing, all the while the blue reticle is warning the enemy.

 

I didn't test the other animation things, but while I played sniper in beta, ambush/snipe + instant explosive probe was one of my favourite combos. If that's impossible with a smuggler as well, it's time they bring things up to speed.

Edited January 2, 2012 by Fdzzaigl