Why does everyone hate the prequals????

[TheLittleTpot]

You realize KOTOR II wasnt made by Bioware? well but to the point i though a bit of fresh air without the alieans and all. Its not they arent there wich they are.. wookies jawas sand ppl, ithorians hutts, zabraks etc etc. Also about the sith empire the aliens are mostly slaves, besides the sith and humans( and even humans are second class) so its pretty normal that the empire ppl generaly treaten then without respect. And the sith mingled with humans so tehre is plenty of humans with sith blood.

All im saying all those stuff has reason to be so, you might not like it but they are there. Read a bit on the lore explain alot of stuff.

also a note about humans, on SW universe, im pretty sure you got that backwards they are the most predominant species in the galaxy...

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Humans

 

Ah, yes, I somehow mixed up Bioware with Obsidian.

 

And I'm not saying I don't see some of the reasons for the way things are, I'm simply saying that those reasons make no sense at all. Such as the idea of how humans are the predominant species. Now, that would make sense in a universe made up of four or five sentient species but, as I mentioned before, Star Wars has thousands of them! Even if you take into account how some species have more advanced space travel technology, said technology could easily be shared and exchanged across cultures, just like how we trade with other countries all over the world in THIS world.

[smartalectwo]

Try to imagine Alec Guiness, as Obi-Wan, saying "Good call, my young Padawan!". Somehow, it just doesn't work. Edited January 22, 2012 by smartalectwo

[Zeratho]

Honestly speaking Attack of the Clones is the only one I truly hate. It was very boring to watch, Anakin's and Padme's love story didn't made any sense at all. (Why would a girl love a guy who just killed Tusken children and women?) And the dialogue in the movie is just killing me.

And Anakin constantly whining about everything.

 

As for Episode I, I hated Jar Jar Binks, who was too childish for the story of these movies, and I didn't actually hate Anakin as a 9-year old, but Anakin as a teenager or a young man would have been better. But this I can forgive to Lucas because this way Anakin and Obi-Wan knew each other longer and had better relationship.

 

And finally for Episode III, I didn't actually hate anything (I actually think it was the best of prequels) but I disliked Anakin vs. Obi-Wan duel, it didn't feel like two friends were fighting. And I almost forgot, it also has some stubid dialogue between Anakin and Padme, and I admit, it can be quite boring before Anakin turns to the dark side.

 

Attack of the Clones is the weakest one for me, 100% total crap.

[PeepsMcJuggs]

Honestly speaking Attack of the Clones is the only one I truly hate. It was very boring to watch, Anakin's and Padme's love story didn't made any sense at all. (Why would a girl love a guy who just killed Tusken children and women?) And the dialogue in the movie is just killing me.

And Anakin constantly whining about everything.

 

If I could wish for more wishes, I'd wish with my biggest wish that that movie never existed.

 

I'd also wish for Natalie Portman to come visit me in that busty, "we can't be together cuz I'm a senator" dominatrix outfit.

 

And I'm not saying I don't see some of the reasons for the way things are, I'm simply saying that those reasons make no sense at all. Such as the idea of how humans are the predominant species. Now, that would make sense in a universe made up of four or five sentient species but, as I mentioned before, Star Wars has thousands of them! Even if you take into account how some species have more advanced space travel technology, said technology could easily be shared and exchanged across cultures, just like how we trade with other countries all over the world in THIS world.

 

It's always annoyed me too, but I think the argument is that they're the largest individual population, and if you total up all other races combined, then humans are outnumbered.

 

The difference is there are multiple human homeworlds, whereas the other species have apparently never heard of colonizing other planets. BioWare can get away with it because pretty much every planet in this game is a primarily human planet.

 

I hate it, but lore-wise, it makes sense.

Edited January 22, 2012 by PeepsMcJuggs

[_haseo]

I actually thought Ep 3 was pretty good....but yeah obi wan beating anakin cuz of the high ground was kinda stupid...how is it plausible that having the high ground was enough to beat someone as powerful as him...makes no sense haha

[Geoduck]

Someone else has probably said it, but lucas needs someone there to guide him. The first movies he had a lot of help, and he wasn't allowed to do as he pleased. Han Solo was going to be an alien for ****s sake, lol. For the prequels he needed someone there to slap him when he thought up jar-jar, but the studios let him go wild since he was/still is so successful.

 

I enjoyed the prequels, except for the first one. It was just straight up garbage.

 

I don't know about Han being an alien, but the Han Solo and Obi-Wan characters started out as one character Obi-Han Kenobi, and was split later into to different people.

 

Luke Skywalker was originally supposed to be a girl, Luka Starkiller, and the original concept stormtroopers all carried lightsabers.

 

Not to mention Jabba the Hutt was concepted (and filmed) as a human (The human wasn't a 'stand-in' as Lucas likes to state). Hutt was originally a title akin to "Capo" or "Godfather", not a race.

 

 

All the prequel movies were "straight up garbage". But the original trilogy was full of plot holes and elements that seemed to be thrown in "just because"

Edited January 22, 2012 by Geoduck

[Krusedullfaen]

I don't hate them, I think they are bad movies virtually devoid of craftsmanship, but I don't hate them, I just don't really care about them.

 

That being said, I do have a fair amount of problems with them.

 

-Jar Jar is annoying, stupid, childish, and most importantly incredibly racist. On top of that, he serves absolutely no purpose, the Phantom Menace would be a stronger movie without the Gungans as a whole. One of it's main issues was that so much was crammed into it at once, making the movie feel like an incoherent mess full of meaningless plots that never went anywhere.

 

-The Lightsaber duels look coreographed. Obviously they are, but it never looks like people are trying to kill each other, they look like they are deliberately trying to hit the opponents blade instead of hitting the opponent. The fights turn out not being convincing in the slightest.

 

-The writing in all three is terrible, the acting is a mixed bag but it goes from passable to downright atrocious with a few solid performances severely hampered by the stilted and wooden acting all around them. This can be blamed on the script but also on the actors themselves, Hayden Christensen does look like he's trying, but he's not trying hard enough. Natalie Portman is normally a fantastic actress, but because there is zero chemistry between her and Hayden, every love scene ends up awkward and forced.

 

I could go on forever, but I can't be bothered writing any more about it right now, the movies aren't worth the effort.

[Zeppelin]

The answer to the topic is simple, "Bandwagon vocal minority nerd rage".

 

Only on the internet do you find ppl spewing the vitrol and unmitigated hate about the prequals to the point of wanting ppl to die IRL because of them. In reality these same ppl are at each SW celebration every year with an Anakin or Jar Jar costume on.

 

Uh no, prequel hating isn't something specific to a few nerds on the internet. It's a pretty common position.

[ExonOnimi]

There are people who like the prequels?...

[Restepor]

I like the prequels, not as much as the originals (no movie will ever come close), but I think people put to much thought into them.

 

If you watch them as Star Wars movies, you get Star Wars movies. There not the originals and they were never meant to be.

[PeepsMcJuggs]

I like the prequels, not as much as the originals (no movie will ever come close), but I think people put to much thought into them.

 

If you watch them as Star Wars movies, you get Star Wars movies. There not the originals and they were never meant to be.

 

That depends on what you consider a "Star Wars movie." I consider it to be epic space battles between good and evil, brave heroes and dastardly villains. Instead I got cute kids, comic relief, arrogant a-holes and token villains. Oh, and no memorable space battles.

 

So no, if I watch them as Star Wars movies, I don't get Star Wars movies.

[Venturi]

I love them myself. But that could just because I love all things Star Wars that I find it hard to see anything negative in anything with a Star Wars label on it. I love the prequels and think they are every bit as good as the original trilogy, but I see it as one epic sextology. I don't seperate them, they are all part of one single saga. I love the Clone Wars series as it explores more about the clone wars. I can't wait for Star Wars 'Underworld' live action series (Underworld being the working title as the idea is still in pre-production until the time is right and the right media format is found for them to do it). I love most of the games (Galaxies being the one exception, the one black mark on Star Wars for me) and the novels and comics. Edited January 23, 2012 by Venturi

[Dark_Hazard]

People just like to troll EVERYTHING.

[Venturi]

Honestly all the flak people give George Lucas is wrong. He told the stories he wanted to tell in the way he wanted to tell them, not the way anyone feels he should tell them. They are his stories, his movies. They aren't our movies. He did an incredible job but no one will see it because they are to busy stuck in the past wanting these new movies to be like the old ones. They deny the mastership crafting of his work in order to ridicule him for supposed 'stealing their childhood'. Well if that is the case then you didn't really have much of a childhood did you?

 

Try to see it from his perspective. He has had this story in him for years, he's worked on it for years and years. It's literally a 34 year old project now, with the Clone Wars continuing that project, putting all the pieces together. A massive universe that was created allows us to have SWTOR for example, to play in, and to enjoy in all kinds of formats from the movies themselves to all the other games and the series and comics.

 

So to be ungrateful to him and judge the prequels in my mind is both wrong and unjust. He put a lot of his money and effort to bring these stories to life and all people can do is act bratty and judgmental. Even having the kahunas in some cases to say they could do a better job. Oh really? Then where is your director credit on any movie? Where is your millions to create that movie? No you couldn't do a better job, you couldn't even come close to creating the rich worlds the movies take place in. You couldn't even come close to writing better dialogue without making it sound like some sort of over bloated fan film.

 

And just because people can imitate light saber graphics and costumes of Star Wars doesn't mean they could bring an actual good Star Wars film to life all on their own without the backing of Lucasfilm.

 

But you know everyone has a right to their opinion, in this case I just humbly believe the majority is totally and explicitly wrong and needs to try to watch the movies again, from a different view point that hopefully this post has enlightened them to.

[PeepsMcJuggs]

Honestly all the flak people give George Lucas is wrong. He told the stories he wanted to tell in the way he wanted to tell them, not the way anyone feels he should tell them. They are his stories, his movies. They aren't our movies. He did an incredible job but no one will see it because they are to busy stuck in the past wanting these new movies to be like the old ones. They deny the mastership crafting of his work in order to ridicule him for supposed 'stealing their childhood'. Well if that is the case then you didn't really have much of a childhood did you?

 

Try to see it from his perspective. He has had this story in him for years, he's worked on it for years and years. It's literally a 34 year old project now, with the Clone Wars continuing that project, putting all the pieces together. A massive universe that was created allows us to have SWTOR for example, to play in, and to enjoy in all kinds of formats from the movies themselves to all the other games and the series and comics.

 

So to be ungrateful to him and judge the prequels in my mind is both wrong and unjust. He put a lot of his money and effort to bring these stories to life and all people can do is act bratty and judgmental. Even having the kahunas in some cases to say they could do a better job. Oh really? Then where is your director credit on any movie? Where is your millions to create that movie? No you couldn't do a better job, you couldn't even come close to creating the rich worlds the movies take place in. You couldn't even come close to writing better dialogue without making it sound like some sort of over bloated fan film.

 

And just because people can imitate light saber graphics and costumes of Star Wars doesn't mean they could bring an actual good Star Wars film to life all on their own without the backing of Lucasfilm.

 

But you know everyone has a right to their opinion, in this case I just humbly believe the majority is totally and explicitly wrong and needs to try to watch the movies again, from a different view point that hopefully this post has enlightened them to.

 

Stop drinking the Kool-Aid, dude. You're regurgitating a bunch of rhetoric that's patently false.

 

1. They're not his movies. He was the original idea man, but it was the efforts of hundreds of people (including several story editors) that brought the original trilogy to screen. And since he wasn't the director for either Episodes V or VI, his re-editing of those films without the original directors' permissions was highly inappropriate, regardless of legality.

 

2. He hasn't had a 30 year old plan. He made it up as he went along, doubly-so for the prequels, in which he was writing the scripts as they were filming. In other words, between ROTJ and TPM, he wasn't doing squat when it comes to working on the Star Wars story. It's been confirmed that when he wrote Episode IV, Vader was just a token villain, the muscle. They didn't come up with the idea that Vader was Luke's father until late in production of Episode V. What does this mean? His recent statements that Star Wars is "The story of Anakin Skywalker's fall and redemption" is complete and utter horsepoodoo.

 

3. I can't say this enough times. Prequel fanboys are under the mistaken impression we hate on the prequels because of nostalgia. No, we dislike the prequels because in terms of basic cinematic storytelling, they suck. But we hate them because thanks to Lucas' constant revisioning, he's shoved a bunch of pointless references to them in the original Trilogy (unless you think a Gungan shouting "Weesa free!" at the end of ROTJ was an essential part of his original vision).

 

So, once again, it's not the prequels themselves that are the problem. It's the fact that this CGI bull**** is the only Star Wars he gives us permission to watch nowadays.

Edited January 23, 2012 by PeepsMcJuggs

[Malaksucks]

 

Watch all of those. They will make you hate George Lucas, for GOOOOOD reason.

 

Then why are u here? No offense

[PeepsMcJuggs]

Then why are u here? No offense

 

Same reason I am. You can hate George Lucas and still love Star Wars.

 

Why is that, I wonder? Maybe because it took more than George to make Star Wars great.

[Slurmez]

they were terrible lazy films, I remember watching a "making of" the Phantom menace and they just went on and on and on about the physics of the CGI for the crashing in the crappy, boring, never ending podrace

 

Midichlorians. When Lucas turned the force into space herpes it was pretty much over

 

Dance fighting, after the prequals Obi wan went off to rumble with some Sharks

 

oh and Hayden Christianson

 

The prequals was a whole slew of fail mixed together

Edited January 23, 2012 by Slurmez

[Venturi]

1. They're not his movies. He was the original idea man, but it was the efforts of hundreds of people (including several story editors) that brought the original trilogy to screen. And since he wasn't the director for either Episodes V or VI, his re-editing of those films without the original directors' permissions was highly inappropriate, regardless of legality.

 

The people that helped him create these movies love them and put as much care into them as he did, and as the creator of the story and sole owner of Star Wars he does have the right to change them how he wants. The directors, who did great excellent jobs by the way as I'm not taking anything away from them, were still under his direction as he was still on set for both Empire strikes back and Return of the Jedi the entire time anyway so he might as well have been directing.

 

2. He hasn't had a 30 year old plan. He made it up as he went along, doubly-so for the prequels, in which he was writing the scripts as they were filming. In other words, between ROTJ and TPM, he wasn't doing squat when it comes to working on the Star Wars story. It's been confirmed that when he wrote Episode IV, Vader was just a token villain, the muscle. They didn't come up with the idea that Vader was Luke's father until late in production of Episode V. What does this mean? His recent statements that Star Wars is "The story of Anakin Skywalker's fall and redemption" is complete and utter horsepoodoo.

 

I never said he had a thirty year plan, he has been working on the Star Wars project for 34 years, (2007 being the anniversary of the original Star Wars film, plus four more years and one month basically around 34 years) I am well aware that he made changes as he went along but you are wrong in the fact that he didn't have the stories and wasn't constantly working on them to be ready for production even if the fine tuning of the scripts didn't come until the prequels were being made he still had the basic ideas finally put together, it took that long to bring it all together and the story of Anakins fall and redemption is not horse crap as that is what it is now, even if it was different in the beginning as he was working on it, that is what it has become and that was established in the original trilogy already, not in the prequel trilogy. Episode VI is in fact calld 'Return of the Jedi' and the title is NOT talking about Luke, as Luke is just becoming a Jedi, he wasn't a Jedi before hand, Darth Vader was as Anakin Skywalker so, try again on your 'horsepoodoo' comment.

 

3. I can't say this enough times. Prequel fanboys are under the mistaken impression we hate on the prequels because of nostalgia. No, we dislike the prequels because in terms of basic cinematic storytelling, they suck. But we hate them because thanks to Lucas' constant revisioning, he's shoved a bunch of pointless references to them in the original Trilogy (unless you think a Gungan shouting "Weesa free!" at the end of ROTJ was an essential part of his original vision).

 

So, once again, it's not the prequels themselves that are the problem. It's the fact that this CGI bull**** is the only Star Wars he gives us permission to watch nowadays.

 

Unfortunately I find it hard to believe Star Wars fans when they claim that they just hate them because they are bad movies, you are in a state of denial that they are not like your beloved holy trilogy because they take place in a different time and place that you, like you are now are making up excuses to pretend that isn't the case. The 'we just hate them because they are bad movies' is as you would use the word 'horsepoodoo' because they are not in fact bad movies, I can name a list of a 100 movies that are bad movies and the prequels would not be among them. You only see them as bad because they are nothing like the original trilogy but you want to deny your nostalgia for the sake of looking like you know what you're talking about when it comes to being critical of movies as if you were a professional critic yourself. Or at least that is what it seems like ninety percent of the time due to the fact of how vehemently these movies are hounded when they do not deserve that hounding.

 

CGI is not -expletive deleted- as you so delicately put it. It is the next best thing, it allows movie goers and movie makers to explore worlds they otherwise couldn't before hand. Are you going to sit there and tell me you hate all movies with CGI in them? Because by your comment you seem to hate CGI, so you may want to rephrase that. Because that would entail you hate movies like Avatar, Lord of the Rings trilogy, and also any Pixar Movie as Lucasfilm isn't the only production company that uses CGI so that statement is a broad generalization.

 

Thanks for numbering your points to make it easier for me to make my counter points.

[PeepsMcJuggs]

The people that helped him create these movies love them and put as much care into them as he did, and as the creator of the story and sole owner of Star Wars he does have the right to change them how he wants. The directors, who did great excellent jobs by the way as I'm not taking anything away from them, were still under his direction as he was still on set for both Empire strikes back and Return of the Jedi the entire time anyway so he might as well have been directing.

 

To a director, you couldn't be more insulting than you just were. By saying "He might as well have been directing", you are taking away from them. The reason Lucas didn't direct ESB or ROTJ was because he couldn't handle people questioning him all the time. He was an independent filmmaker who tried tackling a project bigger than anything he had before. He couldn't handle the pressure of directing, so he called in Irvin Kirshner.

 

Furthermore, Irvin Kirshner, who made Empire Strikes Back arguably the greatest film of the franchise, has been directly quoted as saying Lucas referred to ESB as Irving's film, not his.

 

And again, it's not a matter of whether Lucas was legally allowed to do it. It's the fact that fundamentally altering scenes is insulting to those who had just as much, and in some cases more, of a hand in making those films great.

 

I never said he had a thirty year plan, he has been working on the Star Wars project for 34 years, (2007 being the anniversary of the original Star Wars film, plus four more years and one month basically around 34 years) I am well aware that he made changes as he went along but you are wrong in the fact that he didn't have the stories and wasn't constantly working on them to be ready for production even if the fine tuning of the scripts didn't come until the prequels were being made he still had the basic ideas finally put together, it took that long to bring it all together and the story of Anakins fall and redemption is not horse crap as that is what it is now, even if it was different in the beginning as he was working on it, that is what it has become and that was established in the original trilogy already, not in the prequel trilogy. Episode VI is in fact calld 'Return of the Jedi' and the title is NOT talking about Luke, as Luke is just becoming a Jedi, he wasn't a Jedi before hand, Darth Vader was as Anakin Skywalker so, try again on your 'horsepoodoo' comment.

 

Again, he hasn't been working on the Star Wars project for 34 years. Between ROTJ and TPM (that's just about 15 years), about his only "work" on the franchise was hiring some CGI guys to make Greedo shoot first.

 

The point you're missing is Lucas' defense for why we must put up with his retooling of other people's work is because it lines up with his "vision" for the franchise. For the better part of a decade, he insisted that it would take nine movies to tell the whole story. Now he says it only takes six. He used to say it was about the Hero's Journey, now he says it's about Vader. The bottom line his "vision" is b/s rhetoric to gloss over the fact he's an overly sensitive man-boy who can't handle the fact that people liked the movies the way they were, not the way he wishes they were.

 

As for your "Return of the Jedi" not referring to Luke, now you're just making up speculative crap. Nowhere has anyone ever even remotely indicated that during original production, the title "Return of the Jedi" had to do with Anakin "returning" to being a Jedi. It's about Luke ushering in the return of the Jedi by taking down the Emperor.

 

Unfortunately I find it hard to believe Star Wars fans when they claim that they just hate them because they are bad movies, you are in a state of denial that they are not like your beloved holy trilogy because they take place in a different time and place that you, like you are now are making up excuses to pretend that isn't the case. The 'we just hate them because they are bad movies' is as you would use the word 'horsepoodoo' because they are not in fact bad movies, I can name a list of a 100 movies that are bad movies and the prequels would not be among them. You only see them as bad because they are nothing like the original trilogy but you want to deny your nostalgia for the sake of looking like you know what you're talking about when it comes to being critical of movies as if you were a professional critic yourself. Or at least that is what it seems like ninety percent of the time due to the fact of how vehemently these movies are hounded when they do not deserve that hounding.

 

See, this is the biggest mistake defenders make: just because you like the prequels, and I don't, clearly I am "making up" my opinion that they are bad films. I point back to my favorite case study: my 5 year old daughter watched the original films and absolutely loved them. Then she watched the prequels, and couldn't even get halfway through Episode I before she asked if we could turn it off. Why? Because she was bored.

 

Do you know what the difference between a professional and amateur critic is? One gets paid to give their opinion. I've explained to you the problem, yet you're still glossing over it. The reason these are hounded compared to other bad films is because of the impact they've had on the original trilogy. You can dismiss that if you want, but then you're never going to understand.

 

CGI is not -expletive deleted- as you so delicately put it. It is the next best thing, it allows movie goers and movie makers to explore worlds they otherwise couldn't before hand. Are you going to sit there and tell me you hate all movies with CGI in them? Because by your comment you seem to hate CGI, so you may want to rephrase that. Because that would entail you hate movies like Avatar, Lord of the Rings trilogy, and also any Pixar Movie as Lucasfilm isn't the only production company that uses CGI so that statement is a broad generalization.

 

Thanks for numbering your points to make it easier for me to make my counter points.

 

No, what I'm saying didn't even remotely imply that all CGI is garbage. I said "this CGI bull****" in direct reference to 1) the three prequels that Lucas made where far more time has been spent by Lucas and his cohorts lauding the amount of bluescreens and special effects and digital cameras were used than has been spent discussing characters and story, and 2) the Special Editions, where Lucas inserted a bunch of CGI bull**** into three films that made them worse, not better.

 

LOTR only used CGI when live-action was impractical. Avatar (which no, I don't think was a great film, but was fun to watch) was almost entirely CGI, which removes the uncanny valley problem you get with CGI. And Pixar are fully CGI. Where Star Wars failed was by trying to insert fully interactive CGI characters into almost every single scene alongside live actors who are trying to have physical and emotional reactions to a character that does not exist.

 

The bottom line is you can like these films if you want, but stop blaming my dislike of them purely on nostalgia. Even without a Star Wars backstory, I do not find them entertaining enough to watch again. And the fact that their influence has been shoehorned into the original trilogy is the reason they get blasted more than other "not good" CGI spectacles.

Edited January 23, 2012 by PeepsMcJuggs

[Venturi]

To a director, you couldn't be more insulting than you just were. By saying "He might as well have been directing", you are taking away from them. The reason Lucas didn't direct ESB or ROTJ was because he couldn't handle people questioning him all the time. He was an independent filmmaker who tried tackling a project bigger than anything he had before. He couldn't handle the pressure of directing, so he called in Irvin Kirshner.

 

Furthermore, Irvin Kirshner, who made Empire Strikes Back arguably the greatest film of the franchise, has been directly quoted as saying Lucas referred to ESB as Irving's film, not his.

 

And again, it's not a matter of whether Lucas was legally allowed to do it. It's the fact that fundamentally altering scenes is insulting to those who had just as much, and in some cases more, of a hand in making those films great.

 

You're blatant disregard and somewhat disturbing lack of respect for the artists vision is greatly unnerving. Say what you want about the director, this is still Lucas's vision, no matter how much it shifts, no matter how much it changes, its still his intellectual property, still his child. If Leonardo Da'Vinci came back from the dead and decided that Mona Lisa should have a moustache I'm willing to bet you, and over analytical and overly critical people like you with fly off the handle and have a hissy fit just like you do about this topic. Irving Kirshner did an excellent job, and honestly, there were very minimal changes in Empire, he added more Wampa scenes, and filled in Cloud City, that's not even that big of a deal nor does it offend the director. If I wers Kirshner I would be impressed on how much better it makes Empire look.

 

Fundamentally insulting or not, that doesn't matter. What matters is that its still within Lucas' rights to do so as it is his creation. The feelings of the other people who had a hand in making the films do not matter, and again, pretty much everyone involved in the changes and the prequels liked everything that he did with them in and of themselves otherwise why the heck, would they even keep working for him. One example, Rick McCallum who has worked with George for Lucasfilm ever since the Special Editions.

 

Again, he hasn't been working on the Star Wars project for 34 years. Between ROTJ and TPM (that's just about 15 years), about his only "work" on the franchise was hiring some CGI guys to make Greedo shoot first.

 

The point you're missing is Lucas' defense for why we must put up with his retooling of other people's work is because it lines up with his "vision" for the franchise. For the better part of a decade, he insisted that it would take nine movies to tell the whole story. Now he says it only takes six. He used to say it was about the Hero's Journey, now he says it's about Vader. The bottom line his "vision" is b/s rhetoric to gloss over the fact he's an overly sensitive man-boy who can't handle the fact that people liked the movies the way they were, not the way he wishes they were.

 

Yes I am aware his vision continually shifts and changes, I don't know why you keep repeating himself like a broken record because my broken record answer is still very much. He. Has. Every. Right. To. Do. So. And a true Star Wars fan, like myself, who loves it all should respect his right to do so. In my opinion the Special editions are better and keep getting better with every little change, the Blu-rays are even better then the 2004 DVD editions and they were better then the Special editons of 97 and those are far superior to the original trilogy because the tech is there to make them better to add more to the world to be the vision he originally wanted them to be but did what he could with what he had at the time. And again you are wrong he was always working on Star Wars he continously was working on Star Wars you tend to forget the Droids and Ewoks animated series of the 80s not to mention the Two Ewoks TV movies during the 80s and he had been working on the Special Edition changes since 1994 and preproduction for Episode 1 began in 97 so your assumed time line of how much he worked on his 34 year project is lacking in definition and meaning. Especially since I was generally speaking in the first place. So to explain to your seemingly overly critical and literal mind "He has been working on Star Wars off and on and it has been a growing phenomenon for the past 34 years." Is that better for your sensibility? I'm not even sure why I'm arguing this point as it is trivial to the topic anyway.

 

As for your "Return of the Jedi" not referring to Luke, now you're just making up speculative crap. Nowhere has anyone ever even remotely indicated that during original production, the title "Return of the Jedi" had to do with Anakin "returning" to being a Jedi. It's about Luke ushering in the return of the Jedi by taking down the Emperor.

 

The fact that Anakin/Vader is the 'Jedi' that returned in ROTJ has been accepted by the majority of Star Wars fans since the movie itself came out in 83 so apparently you missed something. This is not speculative crap, this is Star Wars Canon and is accepted by Star Wars fans, except for you apparently.

 

 

See, this is the biggest mistake defenders make: just because you like the prequels, and I don't, clearly I am "making up" my opinion that they are bad films. I point back to my favorite case study: my 5 year old daughter watched the original films and absolutely loved them. Then she watched the prequels, and couldn't even get halfway through Episode I before she asked if we could turn it off. Why? Because she was bored.

 

Your daughter is a moot point because I'm pretty sure she only thinks they are boring because she hears her daddy complain about them all the time so she wants to be like her daddy, its called role modeling, must be proud of yourself as you taught her to hate them. I'm sure you're daughter is smart but I'll consider her opinion as more valid when she reaches full maturity. I still think this opinion is made up by you that you just think they are bad movies. This is why. you're hatred is already born out of a fact you hated the Special Editions and jumped on the bandwagon of the fans who also hated them instead of respecting the artists, George Lucas's vision so its hard for me to accept the fact that you actually have given the prequels a chance because you still had that self given bad taste in your mouth from the special editions so you probably went into them ready to be critical of them. I guarantee if the prequels had been released first they would have been accepted as generally really great movies without anything to compare them to and they wouldn't be judged like this. Though I could also point out the fact that despite peoples claims on how much they suck they still made millions upon millions of dollars at the box office and their critical praise still out shone their detractors. I'm pretty sure Roger Ebert gave both the Phantom Menace and Revenge of the Sith A's or Five Stars however his rating system work, so are you going to sit there and tell me that Ebert doesn't know what he's talking about either?

 

Do you know what the difference between a professional and amateur critic is? One gets paid to give their opinion. I've explained to you the problem, yet you're still glossing over it. The reason these are hounded compared to other bad films is because of the impact they've had on the original trilogy. You can dismiss that if you want, but then you're never going to understand.

 

The explanations you have are born again out of your hatred of the changed special editions and there fore your opinions on the prequels are infected by an innate pre-disposition to dislike them because you were probably expecting them to fail before hand. You didn't give them a real chance, and still aren't. Why? Because you think your child hood is 'ruined'. Deny it all you want, but that is most definitely the case here.

 

 

No, what I'm saying didn't even remotely imply that all CGI is garbage. I said "this CGI bull****" in direct reference to 1) the three prequels that Lucas made where far more time has been spent by Lucas and his cohorts lauding the amount of bluescreens and special effects and digital cameras were used than has been spent discussing characters and story, and 2) the Special Editions, where Lucas inserted a bunch of CGI bull**** into three films that made them worse, not better.

 

LOTR only used CGI when live-action was impractical. Avatar (which no, I don't think was a great film, but was fun to watch) was almost entirely CGI, which removes the uncanny valley problem you get with CGI. And Pixar are fully CGI. Where Star Wars failed was by trying to insert fully interactive CGI characters into almost every single scene alongside live actors who are trying to have physical and emotional reactions to a character that does not exist.

 

Ah well it would have done you good to explain this before hand before making a broad generalization about CGI. Anyways, I disagree, I find that the CGI improves the quality of all six movies and makes the worlds more alive, more filled in and helps them take shape better. Things are more colorful and interesting now.

 

The bottom line is you can like these films if you want, but stop blaming my dislike of them purely on nostalgia. Even without a Star Wars backstory, I do not find them entertaining enough to watch again. And the fact that their influence has been shoehorned into the original trilogy is the reason they get blasted more than other "not good" CGI spectacles.

 

Again its hard for me to believe this, you may believe it yourself but it sounds like you are trying to convince yourself of this more then you are trying to convince the rest of us.

 

That being said I rest my case, my opinion is not going to change even if you type up another response to all of the points I am making. I am sure you'll rage more and more. Everyone is entitled to their opinion I just again, believe the majority in this case is wrong and needs to get over the whole 'he ruined my child hood' schtick and grow up.

[PeepsMcJuggs]

Your daughter is a moot point because I'm pretty sure she only thinks they are boring because she hears her daddy complain about them all the time so she wants to be like her daddy, its called role modeling, must be proud of yourself as you taught her to hate them. I'm sure you're daughter is smart but I'll consider her opinion as more valid when she reaches full maturity. I still think this opinion is made up by you that you just think they are bad movies.

 

And I'm going to stop you right there, because this is where your entire speculative argument on why you think other people dislike these movies falls apart, and highlights how much of your ranting about why people think what they think is based purely on unfounded assumptions.

 

I have not expressed my opinions about the prequels to my daughter at all. I wasn't even planning on showing her the Star Wars movies for several years. She came to me and asked to watch them after seeing a Yoda toy at McDonalds. I sat her down and showed her Episodes IV-VI, then I-III. For all six films, whenever that opening crawl popped up, I read it to her in the most dramatic voice I could. I encouraged her love of all six films (edit: I should say five films. She still doesn't want to watch TPM), and have never disparaged Jar Jar Binks, midichloreans, or any of the other stuff that personally pisses me off.

 

You know why? She's five freakin' years old. There's a lot of stuff that she likes that drives me nuts. But I keep my opinion to myself because she likes it. Instead, I reserve said opinion for online forums where I can try to explain to the Kool-Aid drinkers that there is nothing wrong with hating these films.

 

And in her own, unbiased, uncompromised opinion, The Phantom Menace bored the piss out of her. And this was a film designed for kids, so if you can't take her opinion as valid, then you've completely lost the plot, friend.

Edited January 23, 2012 by PeepsMcJuggs

[TheLonelyTusken]

Who is the main character of The Phantom Menace?

 

Darth Obi-JinnWalker

[GhostRiderLSOV]

So, I got to watch

http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/ (not just the Phantom Menace youtube link. I'm right before starting Ep. II review part 3) and yeah, apart from the silly basement/pizza roll jokes, he has many points and highlights parts I hadn't noticed.

 

Ok, if we get the OT under the magnifying glass, we'll find problems there too, but the prequels are very flawed.

[TheTurniipKing]

All I've gotta say about the final fight in ROTS, that the high ground did absolutely nothing for Darth Maul.