Premades in PvP

[MercMara]

Is it just me or are these premades getting out of hand? 4 players in a premade is already rough when most solo Q, let alone 8. These premades with multiple healers and tanks are ridiculous! Then you can't leave the warzone to get away from them because you'll get a penalty timer. Your two options are to get farmed, even if you are a good player or hide somewhere and wait for the warzone to be over. Not very pleasant! These premades stack whatever class is popular at the time making them that much worse. 

 

 

[supertimtaf]

Question is was there any group in your own team. If there wasn't, then that's definitely confirming more or less a potential matchmaker issue. Try to see on the next game with this issue if you have people in a group on your own team. If not then I'd suggest sending yet another message in this thread
Maybe if enough people start flooding their bug report forum will they start to listen, or close the bug report section. That'd be bad.  

[Ajalkaar]

6 hours ago, supertimtaf said:

Maybe if enough people start flooding their bug report forum will they start to listen

you are very very very very very optimistic

[Beyrahl]

It's been years, I have tried many many many times since the end of 5.0.
Not going into a full list because a lot of things were simply ignored over the years.
Beta testers even recommended some very specific changes that'd help the fluidity and feel of the game but also help the engine run smoother. Animations being canceled upon the next ability going off. The funny thing is some abilities actually do this in current day, while some do not. Animation lag is very easy to notice and you've likely ran into it many times in the past, even more so if you PvP. 
Here's that thread, which went on for like 10 different threads due to limit. Legitimately swtor's longest thread.

But just to go over recent years, many things that were coming in 6.0 on PTS were told against, which ultimately created a massive imbalance between healers and damage. While force bound and other problematic things were introduced simply to band-aid the solution, enraged defense healing was even removed from the scoreboard at some point in 6.0 to hide the fact the class was doing well over 10k HPS at times. 
Going into 7.0, you can guess the same thing happened but to a greater degree, healers got pruned of most utility including removal of some meta set bonuses and leaving them with either nerfed or gutted versions of their old ones. While damage went through the roof once again, bandaids like force bound got removed while things like taunt stun got to shine briefly only to reintroduce something irritating like Stealth scan diversion. 

Frankly, it's just a track record and fundamentally there just isn't and hasn't been a dedicated PvP person at bioware/broadsword like ever. It's been shown many times over and it's really unreasonable to expect them to have one either. The biggest issue is that they just don't listen to the community and or lack the resources to just read threads or play the game themselves past a casual level to experience these issues. 

[Monterone]

I'd be fine with all of this poor matchmaking, 8man premades against solo queuers... everything would be fine, if I could drop out without time penalties.

[Zekiirah]

I feel like there needs to be a rule about how often a topic complaining about premades should crop up at this point. This is at least the third new one I'm seeing (with one that got deleted) in a week, and I only check these forums maybe once every few days.

I get it. I came back from a very long break from the game, super stoked to be PvPing again. Unfortunately, I learned rather quickly that many things had shifted in the several years since I had seriously played the game and its PvP. Number farming, weird and strangely super personal toxic behavior (I mean let's be real, that's PvP in general, but it feels like it's dialed up a notch now), and playing to win and doing objectives is now considered tryharding. Inherent PvP knowledge that I took for granted back in the day doesn't exist anymore: I can't trust that someone with the BiS gear knows that they can, in fact, taunt and not cause someone to attack them. I can't trust that they know how to call out, I have no clue if they're aware they can copy/paste "help inc W" so that they don't stand there with their pants down getting globaled trying to type it out. I've been cussed out asking players to consider taunting, to help their healers. I've been told "no thanks, I'm just here for rewards" when asking someone if they'd like tips. Things that myself and probably many other PvPers consider the basics are well and truly gone and not coming back with the current playerbase. I could count on some of the worst players to at least have a modicum of situational awareness before; now it's almost like many revel in their decision to play as average as they possibly can. If you flip that mindset to me asking people to take me along for a Master Mode operation without the proper gear, skillset, and boss knowledge, well, I'm fairly certain it would be taken as the negative that it rightfully is.

There was a time when I was proud that I would solo queue as a healer. After returning, all it got me was being cussed out asking for help, absolutely no support from most teams, toxic crap from the other team if I dared to queue with a tank (you know, that class that's supposed to soak up damage for someone else, mechanically?) It was pretty gross all around. 9, 10, 11, 12+ mil damage taken, every game. Accused of ruining matchmaking if I went with a tank, accused of being in a premade when I'm solo, accused of anything under the sun when I simply display actual competency as a PvPer. It's like the playerbase wants healers to keel over the moment someone targets them, and if they don't, it's time for you to be their new verbal plaything. Healers are not in a great spot, and while I can kite and bob and weave and LoS like the rest of my good healer folk, it's not going to save us for more than a few seconds when a couple of decent PvPers pick us out of a crowd.

I absolutely agree that premades are a problem - 8-man queue should never have existed. More probably could have been attempted to revitalize and detoxify ranked. I've gone up against some seriously rough matches by myself, and I just blow a kiss and keep on keeping on. There's nothing I can do about it, and quitting the match shows that it got to me, and I'm not about that life. But if we're going to continually have post after post about the state of PvP being solely due to premades, we really need to have a come to space jesus moment about why many players have them. Sure, some are there to dominate, number farm, be jerks and blow off RL steam, whatever, nothing you can do. But a lot of players, such as myself, got sick of being harassed, belittled, and tunneled with absolutely zero care from their team - the solo queuers who constantly purport to be the only victims. I got that harassment whether I was solo or not, didn't matter if I did a single thing to warrant it - I went in a premade that one time, I'm now the new target to players who have never personally met me (but who have most certainly benefitted from my heals in matches gone by.) 

I came to the decision that if I was going to be treated and supported poorly no matter what, I'd rather do it with competent friends on my team to cut down on the harassment and focus fire. Because you know what? Solo queuers are oddly quiet when a premade of a few players are helping them get their weeklies done quicker. 

[supertimtaf]

6 hours ago, Ajalkaar said:

you are very very very very very optimistic

At some point the fun comes not in believing but showing with facts how little work has been done.

Feels like that we could start working on SwtorEmul, we'd actually fix and work out stuff quicker than them.

 

2 hours ago, Zekiirah said:

I came to the decision that if I was going to be treated and supported poorly no matter what, I'd rather do it with competent friends on my team to cut down on the harassment and focus fire. Because you know what? Solo queuers are oddly quiet when a premade of a few players are helping them get their weeklies done quicker. 

I think that no good player is truly complaining about premades anyway. I did see a few odd things about the matchmaker right now that are making me believe that there's been either a bug in the priority list or a straight up lie, but that's it.

I don't mind premades when the overall skill level is higher than what it currently is. I mind having premades back to back in games with no time between them and no grouped players against them.

If this thing is still possible at the moment, I feel like there's some work not being done y'know. Just "feel like"

Crazy to know that I'll spend the next two years of my life working over and over on my own game to probably never get a commercial success, and here on the other hand you have people who have the dream job and clearly who don't care about it or about their community. If any of them were to answer any thread right now and engage with the players, you have no idea how much of a celebration that would be. But still they don't even try to maintain the illusion. Shame 😕

 

Guess I'll see you all on SwtorEmul 

 

[septru]

10 hours ago, Beyrahl said:

Here's that thread, which went on for like 10 different threads due to limit. Legitimately swtor's longest thread.

Holy crap. This is insane. 

[supertimtaf]

10 minutes ago, septru said:

Holy crap. This is insane. 

And this thread is an absolute fair point. No game has ever been able to get as close to WoW in terms of ability delay. Even XIV doesn't, but that's also mostly because they don't want to.

Here it's probably a mix of "can't" and "don't want"

But yeaaah that's a bit of a shame. ESO uses the same engine, and yet feels more responsive. Maybe there's some work to be done here, who knows.

[AocaVII]

PvP is horrendous. Premade or no premade.